The EPA wants to make it illegal to modify your car for racing.

[2HIGH~PSI]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Protect the planet from what?

For future generations that need to survive on this planet for 100 million years until everything crashes, burns whatever is the "end". Either way, we have offspring and others that are to survive here and I feel it rather selfish to exploit it solely for our generation.

Like I said, Im just playing devils advocate as we are all enthusiasts looking to make incremental power gains and bragging rights with our cars. I get it.

But on the same token, I also get where the environmentalists are coming from.

While cows, sun, factories, etc are all likely more substantial issues, ripping the cats off our cars and changing the exhaust pollutant, while small, is still an issue and thats what this is all about.

[donovan]

Ridiculous guys..

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...les-racecars-0

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by David70

If I were them I would go after the suppliers, far easier to go after the few that make the parts than the ones that buy them. There's a reason why law enforcement focuses on drug dealers to reduce drug use.



First, I am not sure why CO2 was brought to the front. I don't believe the emission controls on anyone's car can remove CO2 and the only thing that can cut CO2 is reducing the amount of fuel that is burned. The primary function of the emission controls is to remove CO (carbon monoxide), NOx, SOx, hydrocarbons (partially burned fuel that creates smog), and soot. Modifying your car (normally requires reprogramming) to burn more fuel will increase its' CO2 output, taking the cat off won't increase it.

The sun spot theory is a good one and I will consider it as a possibility along with the other theories until something is proven. You present it as proof just like all of the other theories. At the same time a large part of scientists also believe human activity is at least partially to blame. Based on the evidence I don't see making reasonable cuts in CO2 output as being a bad idea, worst case that I see is we cut the overall use of hydrocarbons which I think we all agree aren't in unlimited supply. Some say eating lots of red meat will lower my life expectancy but reality is many things might kill me and there still seems to be disagreement with scientists as to whether or not it even matters. Based on the evidence I decided to reduce how much red meat I eat but when I am 70 it may turn out that science was wrong and it was a waste of time.

I agree, all animals (I believe all) produce methane and CO2. Not sure why people defend what they do as being ok based on something or someone doing something that is the same or worse but it seems to be popular. In the end many feel we should cut all output, including ships, trains, animals (we really don't need to eat as much beef as we do), power plants, and slow population growth. I don't know if all of this is necessary or will even be helpful but I am open to listening and if the cut can be made without huge downsides I would probably want to do it (if someone said they could increase the mpg of ships or trains without major downsides I would be for it or when I was offered a high efficiency heating system I decided the extra cost was worth it even though I may not be in my house when it finally breaks even).

I think it was around 2011 that the EPA declared CO2 a pollutant. So now all of us humans, just merely by breathing, are contributing to the greenhouse effect and causing globalwarmingclimatechange (let's just make it a single word). So we all need to breathe less, apparently, to save the planet. Never mind that green plants love the stuff and make O2 from it. So maybe we should all breathe more... Or ban exercise. Let's close all the gyms. Perhaps not let people by athletic shoes, that will reduce globalwarmingclimatechange.

CO is a toxic gas, which is why it is removed from the exhaust stream. CO2 contributes to life on the planet.

And don't take this the wrong way, but you drive a 2-seat sports car with 345 horsepower (I have one two, but just with 255), both are pretty much on the side of the scale labeled as “wasteful” (kinda like eating too much beef?). So if we really look at this from saving the planet, maybe all cars should be banned except the Prius and the Volt...

The point being... at what point to we tell the politicians "enough".

[TonySCV]

No, the EPA Didn't Just Outlaw Your Race Car

http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorspo...ctually-means/

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by 2HIGH~PSI

For future generations that need to survive on this planet for 100 million years until everything crashes, burns whatever is the "end". Either way, we have offspring and others that are to survive here and I feel it rather selfish to exploit it solely for our generation.

Like I said, Im just playing devils advocate as we are all enthusiasts looking to make incremental power gains and bragging rights with our cars. I get it.

But on the same token, I also get where the environmentalists are coming from.

While cows, sun, factories, etc are all likely more substantial issues, ripping the cats off our cars and changing the exhaust pollutant, while small, is still an issue and thats what this is all about.

Apparently farting muskrats don't care about future generations of muskrats or baby humans for that matter...

[04RC51]

The sky is falling!

[mencio]

Also note that the reworded law – if passed – will not go into effect until 2018, and will not be retroactive.
So current modified production cars appear unlikely to be affected either way.

[ProbyOne]

Originally Posted by jwzimm

My emissions equipment was fully intact.

Engine tuning (yes, your JB4) is most definitely part of this EPA rule.

Ask VW if you aren't convinced by me saying so.

Eta: Engine tuning of a street car is and will still be illegal. This EPA clarification covers engine tuning of racecars.

[myzmak]

Please close this thread.

Or send someone up here to gouge my eyes out so I don't have to read it again.

[04RC51]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Please close this thread.

Or send someone up here to gouge my eyes out so I don't have to read it again.

Just another one of "those threads" we have to wade through here on a daily basis.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by 04RC51

Just another one of "those threads" we have to wade through here on a daily basis.

In fairness, we probably do this to ourselves (masochists, all of us) but....still.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I think it was around 2011 that the EPA declared CO2 a pollutant. So now all of us humans, just merely by breathing, are contributing to the greenhouse effect and causing globalwarmingclimatechange (let's just make it a single word). So we all need to breathe less, apparently, to save the planet. Never mind that green plants love the stuff and make O2 from it. So maybe we should all breathe more... Or ban exercise. Let's close all the gyms. Perhaps not let people by athletic shoes, that will reduce globalwarmingclimatechange.

CO is a toxic gas, which is why it is removed from the exhaust stream. CO2 contributes to life on the planet.

And don't take this the wrong way, but you drive a 2-seat sports car with 345 horsepower (I have one two, but just with 255), both are pretty much on the side of the scale labeled as “wasteful” (kinda like eating too much beef?). So if we really look at this from saving the planet, maybe all cars should be banned except the Prius and the Volt...

The point being... at what point to we tell the politicians "enough".

Plants turn CO2 into O2, I agree. This doesn't mean we don't have too much of it (I don't know). As I said before, I think we should cut waste where it makes sense. I don't think this means we should stop breathing (for many reasons I do believe we should encourage cuts in birth rates for some), we can't reasonably ban cars, banning gyms, etc. Still not following why when someone says we might want to consider reasonable moves to reduce our use of fossil fuels that people point out all of the other things that could also be done, many of which don't make any sense.

My coupe is a weekend car that I drive less than 3k miles a year, I go on vacation, do other things that aren't necessary and burn fuel that I don't need to burn and I am far from doing everything I could do.

On the other hand I think I take a lot of reasonable steps to limit waste and I didn't go into a rage when they said incandescent light bulbs were going away, home heating efficiency requirements were going up, recycling will be encouraged, etc.

[WreckerX5d]

Are they running out of things to regulate? They seem to stick their dick into everything now. A huge majority of people don't care about modifying their cars, so what's the matter with "racing" vehicles now? EPA should be renamed to Excitement Policing Association.

[Mavus]

What about planes and fracking?

Why not ban production of all gas burners and produce electric vehicles?

Why not build better mass transit based on electric vehicles?

What about oil spills?

What about Monsanto?

[Diver]

Originally Posted by TonySCV

No, the EPA Didn't Just Outlaw Your Race Car

http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorspo...ctually-means/

Clear as mud.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

What about planes and fracking?

Why not ban production of all gas burners and produce electric vehicles?

Why not build better mass transit based on electric vehicles?

What about oil spills?

What about Monsanto?

Planes, engines specifically, are seeing significant changes:

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...ts-take-flight

New geared-turbofans are seeing efficiency improvements on the order of 20%, over existing high-bypass turbofans. Further research is being done to test the feasibility of hybrid electric systems or all-electric.

I see that we are gradually transitioning to a more efficient and responsible civilization, which is a good thing. Gas-turbines are now used to provide electricity and they have over 60% efficiency, 65% in some cases. Not too long ago, it was thought that the 50% barrier was an impossible obstacle. Compared with all the infrastructure and required systems for nuclear, they still come out on top in terms of efficiency and dollar per kilowatt, even though it's not "renewable", but we have many other sources being utilized now, solar, wind, hydroelectric, etc.

Electric cars are coming, but slowly, as the battery technology continues to improve and infrastructure starts to appear. This has already happened to the extent that it is feasible and working in several places, but it will continue to expand and eventually become mainstream over the next few decades. This leaves more for future generations, as well as jobs for developing the new technology and systems.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by fravel

Is that river in Colorado all cleaned up already? Frankly the EPA doesn't have any business focusing on anything else until they deal with that.

I think we should ask the residents of Flint, Michigan how well the EPA is protecting them from their drinking water.

[zx10guy]

If the EPA is focusing on this aspect of trying to stem pollution, they should review their enforcement of Ethanol in gasoline. I would say repealing the crap legislation requiring Ethanol in gasoline would have a bigger impact than outlawing modified vehicles.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I think it was around 2011 that the EPA declared CO2 a pollutant. So now all of us humans, just merely by breathing, are contributing to the greenhouse effect and causing globalwarmingclimatechange (let's just make it a single word). So we all need to breathe less, apparently, to save the planet. Never mind that green plants love the stuff and make O2 from it. So maybe we should all breathe more... Or ban exercise. Let's close all the gyms. Perhaps not let people by athletic shoes, that will reduce globalwarmingclimatechange.

CO is a toxic gas, which is why it is removed from the exhaust stream. CO2 contributes to life on the planet.

And don't take this the wrong way, but you drive a 2-seat sports car with 345 horsepower (I have one two, but just with 255), both are pretty much on the side of the scale labeled as “wasteful” (kinda like eating too much beef?). So if we really look at this from saving the planet, maybe all cars should be banned except the Prius and the Volt...

The point being... at what point to we tell the politicians "enough".

Listen, you and zx10guy need to stop considering objective realities and actual scientific information before you post here. It's just getting embarrassing. I'm telling you this as your friend.

Seriously, this is just one of many political red herrings that make certain people feel good and have less actual impact than those forwarding this foolishness can prove. You just nailed it:

The point being... at what point to we tell the politicians "enough".

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Listen, you and zx10guy need to stop considering objective realities and actual scientific information before you post here. It's just getting embarrassing. I'm telling you this as your friend.

Seriously, this is just one of many political red herrings that make certain people feel good and have less actual impact than those forwarding this foolishness can prove. You just nailed it:

The point being... at what point to we tell the politicians "enough".

People keep forgetting we'd be dead if it were not for the Greenhouse effect... Well maybe better put as "we'd not have existed" if it were not for the greenhouse effect. Screwing with the balance of greenhouse gases can have an effect both ways...

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by jwzimm

Oh I realize my opinion is not a popular one. Those that don't like it are advised to ignore it.

It just irritates me when people think that they can simply ignore a law. It relates a sense of entitlement and arrogance that is unacceptable. If you don't like a law, then work to change it. I don't go around shooting people who annoy me in the head because I disagree with the laws against murder. Similar concept.

Yeah ok Mr. Law Man. We'll all just work to change a law when lobbyists and other scum bags pour billions into a rigged system to get their way.

We'll get right on changing those laws while we have to work 70+ hours a week to provide for our families while the government you seem so beholden to steals the fruits of our labors to pay illegals and lazy people to sit on their ass all day.

Heaven forbid we want to take what little money we have left after being buried in 10k different kinds of taxes to put a fart can on our cars.

[PandaM3]

Originally Posted by dragonsi

Time to buy up all the test pipes, down pipes, x pipes, h pipes for all the cars I will want to own.

There's gonna be an underground black market for this stuff and the prices are gonna go up.

It's gonna be like Mad Max, but instead of guzzolin it's gonna be for mods... hahaha

But srsly tho, this is gonna affect my future car purchasing as I will be only interested in cars that are fast from the factory now.