Does 1 series dilute the BMW brand?

[ManMachine]

I have an SUV also and wished I hadn't made that decision. Yeah it was fine for occasional ski and off road trips, but most of the time it's just suffering poor mileage while transporting one person back and forth.

IMO, BMW build SUVs because the U.S. created the market for it during the cheap gas days. Let's see where such vehicles will be in ten years.
There are plenty of vehicles that function better than SUVs for most people's daily use. Is there really a need for X6, and X1?

And by the way, BMW's SUVs are the least reliable BMWs.

[adc]

Originally Posted by ManMachine

Is there really a need for X6, and X1?

If someone will buy them, then obviously there will be a need.

And by the way, BMW's SUVs are the lest reliable BMWs.

My 335 has been in the shop more in 9 months than my X3 in 3 years.

[ManMachine]

adc - not sure why you need to take this personally. I'm just stating my opinion, like everyone else.

I'm talking about needs. Most SUV drivers don't need SUVs. They want SUVs. Business wise, it's a good thing to cater to people's desires. I'm talking from a fan perspective.

335iT and 535xiT easily trump X3 and X5 in every performance category.

About reliability - you have a sample size of 1. The statistics show otherwise.

When Porsche introduced the Cayenne, you know what the enthusiasts are saying. I'm glad that the 1 series carries the BMW mission forward.

[adc]

Originally Posted by ManMachine

adc - not sure why you need to take this personally.

I've ammended my previous post just minutes before yours - apologies.

I'm talking about needs. Most SUV drivers don't need SUVs. They want SUVs.

People who buy cars based on true need never buy BMW's. They are generally more expensive and more wasteful to manufacture, are expensive to buy and operate and generally use big thirsty engines.

My commuting needs would be better served by some Corolla, or Jetta TDI. The 335i I drive is so wasteful by comparison... Guess what - all of us on these boards are guilty of buying wants, not needs.

Fuel for thought - my 335 and X3 get very similar fuel economy. So which one is more wasteful? The small 4 passenger car, or the big 5 passenger one?

Social acceptability of cars in Europe is based on the CO2 emissions which in turn is linked mostly to fuel economy. If such a scenario becomes the norm in the US in a few years, none of these cars will be considered acceptable or proper.

335iT and 535iT easily trump X3 and X5 in every performance category.

Yes, but at a huge price differential and probably worse fuel economy. A 3 wagon is too small for our needs, a 5 wagon WAY too expensive (we've looked). A twin-turbo would make no sense for the wife. So the X3 fits our current needs like a glove.

About reliability - you have a sample size of 1. The statistics show otherwise.

Where did you find the statistics? I'd be interested in comparing the 2005 X3 3.0 vs. 06 325xit.

When Porsche introduced the Cayenne, you know what the enthusiasts are saying. I'm glad that the 1 series carries the BMW mission forward.

1. Porsche used to be a far more focused company - they prided themselves in producing sports cars and race cars, nothing else. So the Cayenne is a big departure for them - and people resented the change in focus.

2. When said Porsche introduced a lighter weight, better handling sports car - Boxster - the same enthusiast screamed bloody murder. How it was diluting the brand. How it was not worthy of the Porsche name. It's still not completely accepted in some Porsche circles, despite its obvious brilliant driving experience.

So I guess certain Porsche owners are not that different from certain BMW owners after all. I say, forget all this - boxing yourself into some mentality or another is not good at all.

[mtla4]

The 135 is the car I was waiting for. And honestly if we were a few years back(i.e 2000) the 128i is a powerful machine 230 hp, RWD. Here in Canada we have the 323i which is the same price as a 128i so people who just wants the bragging rights can buy that 323i(which serves as rental-loaners around here) and leave the 1 series to the people who wants a nice engine,nice size,nice brakes. Quite frankly the 1 series interior suck but I dont care for the money where could I find a better car.

[Spook]

No. We are the unwashed step children of marketing necessity. We are the unfortunate product of cold pragmatism. We, in our jeans and sneakers and T shirts touting automotive performance products are the forlorn orphans not to be embraced by our more fortunate betters. They will have the Joseph Phelps cabernet. We will sulk at the hufbrauhaus. They will play golf. We will autocross. They will take a meeting. We will take a line through a curve as we escape the office early on Friday. Face it. We are lessening their gene pool. We are the proletariat sucking air from their elite. We are the lower class of the BMW autosport world. The 1er's. Barely above zero. I feel so.. relieved of any association with those posing bastard fossil republican assholes.

-Spook

[ansun]

Youre crazy. Youre all crazy.

[ansun]

Originally Posted by Spook

No. We are the unwashed step children of marketing necessity. We are the unfortunate product of cold pragmatism. We, in our jeans and sneakers and T shirts touting automotive performance products are the forlorn orphans not to be embraced by our more fortunate betters. They will have the Joseph Phelps cabernet. We will sulk at the hufbrauhaus. They will play golf. We will autocross. They will take a meeting. We will take a line through a curve as we escape the office early on Friday. Face it. We are lessening their gene pool. We are the proletariat sucking air from their elite. We are the lower class of the BMW autosport world. The 1er's. Barely above zero. I feel so.. relieved of any association with those posing bastard fossil republican assholes.

-Spook

BOOOOM! Tough Actin Tinactin!

[hellrotm]

No,

The 1-series has been around since 2004 in Europe.

Plus it is actually the essence of what BMW use to be.


A lot of these BMW owners have be blinded by the bigger and high horsepower cars. They don't even have a clue what BMW's heritage is.

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by larryn

Mine would do a number on these 135s. It looks good too.

That car has definitely been taken care of. I'm not even sure that's the model I had in mind. The one I recall looks very cut-off, like the old chevy cavalier hatchbacks.

[BMW Dreamer]

What cracks me up are all the 3 and 5 series Bimmers running around with UGLY donut tires and UGLY little NON SPORT package wheels. I seldomly see GOOD looking Bimmers. But those snobs still have their heads in the air. I LAUGH and think, What an idiot/skumbag retard.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Jeff1962

What cracks me up are all the 3 and 5 series Bimmers running around with UGLY donut tires and UGLY little NON SPORT package wheels. I seldomly see GOOD looking Bimmers. But those snobs still have their heads in the air. I LAUGH and think, What an idiot/skumbag retard.

Never been to Europe, I take? You can wander for days, or a week before you see an M car or a SP car. Most bimmers are the lowest of the low spec...

Edit: I've been thinking - we should create a list, a hierarchy, so we can easily tell how far up or down the chain of proper BMW-ness we are, you know, the exact place in the pecking order.

Here is my first draft:
- At the bottom should go drivers of all other brands. Yes, we can find fault even for Ferarri drivers (compensating), Lamborghini (even more so), Porsche (Beetle lovers), Aston (effetes), Benz (old), Audi (also-rans), Honda (ricers), Buick (no comment needed) etc.
- After that, BMW SUV and 7 series owners (posers)
- Low powered BMW models (first time status seekers)
- Medium powered models (status seekers)
- High powered models (can't quite afford an M)
- M owners (pansies who won't race)
- Auto-crossers (playing in a kiddie pool)
- Track drivers (balls too small to race)
- Racers (now we're talking)

[Duckw]

Well put, adc. If there's a 3 or 5 driver out there who sneers at my 135, why should I be equally silly and sneer at a non-sport owner? This morning, in Oxford, Ohio, two (very lucky) young men in a gorgeous SGM 335i coupe gave my GSM 135i a big smile and a wave. I smiled and waved back. Mutual respect is gratifying.

Dead right about Europe. Nothing like those astronomic fuel prices to curtail horsepower and a heavy foot.

[InsaneSkippy]

Originally Posted by Spook

No. We are the unwashed step children of marketing necessity. We are the unfortunate product of cold pragmatism. We, in our jeans and sneakers and T shirts touting automotive performance products are the forlorn orphans not to be embraced by our more fortunate betters. They will have the Joseph Phelps cabernet. We will sulk at the hufbrauhaus. They will play golf. We will autocross. They will take a meeting. We will take a line through a curve as we escape the office early on Friday. Face it. We are lessening their gene pool. We are the proletariat sucking air from their elite. We are the lower class of the BMW autosport world. The 1er's. Barely above zero. I feel so.. relieved of any association with those posing bastard fossil republican assholes.

-Spook

Best post I've read all week!

[imported_Katera]

Originally Posted by Duckw

Well put, adc. If there's a 3 or 5 driver out there who sneers at my 135, why should I be equally silly and sneer at a non-sport owner? This morning, in Oxford, Ohio, two (very lucky) young men in a gorgeous SGM 335i coupe gave my GSM 135i a big smile and a wave. I smiled and waved back. Mutual respect is gratifying.

And then you smoked them off the line?

[WhiteOne]

Ever been to Germany? BMW's are like Fords or Chevys. The 1 series fits in very well all over Europe because of its size. You can't even get through the villages with a 5 or 7 series. A 1 series with folding mirrors is perfect over there... YOMV

[rpps]

Originally Posted by spudwest

Anyone that really understands BMW, should recognize that the 1-Series is reviving BMWs heritage and thereby enhancing brand...

The 135i is a no-nonsense lightweight compact coupe that outperforms virtutally all non-M BMWs. It tugs hard on BMW's motosport heritage. It is 100% BMW quality. The 128i has viritually the same bones and skin as the 135i with an engine that provides more output that an E46 330i. Same BMW quality and impressive performance...

The 1-Series is a compact, performance-oriented interpretation of BMW's motosport heritage, while the 3-series and 5-series have become increasingly large, heavy and feature-laden.

Well said.

IMHO, individuals have overlooked the recent size/weight/$$$ increases of BMWs across the board

Note: The 3 (e90) is where the 5 (e39) use to be and the 5 (e60) is getting to where the 7 (e38 swb) was.

Correlating with these changes is a rather steep price increase. Well-equipped 328s are now tipping high 40k-->low 50k.

My point? The 1-series is more of an e46 replacement than anything else.

[rpps]

Originally Posted by larryn

Mine would do a number on these 135s. It looks good too.

PS. I am loving the 318ti with e36 ///M3 mods. I love the "Vaders".

[Duckw]

Originally Posted by Katera

And then you smoked them off the line?

Nope. They were going north, I was going south.

[SCA1]

I think you may see some of those same people beginning to drift to 135's that would have bought 335's or even M3s as word spreads about these cars. I was actually looking at the M3 originally. Having driven the M3, 335i and 135i, I'm actually liking the 135i the best! Particularly knowing the immediate mod potential on these cars. The other two just feel too "big." I prefer quick and nimble.

For what it's worth, I can actually afford any of them, but am CHOOSING the 135i because of the way it feels on the road and maneuvering through traffic. Maybe I'm an outlier, but is a cool car, and different than anything out there.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by SCA1

Maybe I'm an outlier...

You're not... there's many of us in the same spot. We could buy the 335i or M3, but chose the 135i.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by rpps

PS. I am loving the 318ti with e36 ///M3 mods. I love the "Vaders".

It is a great sleeper. I've had so many people ask me "WHAT the HELL is in that thing?!", at different events. It sounds mean, goes fast, is nimble, and doesn't look too shabby IMO.