BMW 1M Coupe Partially Unveiled at Oktoberfest! [INFO, VIDEO & PHOTOS]

[jdmorris]

Originally Posted by Madozu

I the CF roof removes >10kg weight, I think it's worth some price as removing weight from the very top of the car is one of the good things you can do to a car.

I see very few reasons to cover some parts of the car with CF. If this is optional, I don't care, but I don't like spending money for parts that only have visual benefits.

Ditto the lack of desire for CF. From wikipedia's E46 M3 CSL entry: "... the roof is constructed from carbon fiber reinforced plastic.[19] While this only reduces the curb weight of the car by 7 kg (15 lb), it lowers the center of gravity of the car and decreases body flex."

I'd rather see an aluminum hood. Every Mazda Miata has had one since 1989 and they're cheap cars (and newer MX5s have an aluminum trunk lid, too)! Aluminum fenders ala Mitsu Evo are pretty impressive, too, but probably don't match up with BMW's standard for durability. Aluminum isn't as bling but it sure is cheap!

JD

[jpuff]

Originally Posted by Evice

BF says it is a modified N54. Well how is that really Hybrid?? It is the old engine tuned to make more power...which every other 135 owner in this forums do it with JB3

There used to be a day where tuning a car didn't just mean doing software changes... M has always tuned engines, but they never simply increase boost or make ecu changes. They do real mods like bore the engine, increase stroke, create new headers/manifolds and ect. The majority of people on this forum are so used to tuning cars with a chip that they either forgot (or never understood to begin with) that their are a lot of other ways to tune cars... they just have never done it because they aren't any wiser and there's no need to when ecu mods yield 100hp gains.

The majority of people on these forums really don't know the first thing about cars and it's very off-putting. The fact that people assume all BMW could do is "tune the engine with software" is sickening. They've forgotten what real mods are because like I said, they can just do a simple software tune and be done with the car.

[ptack]

Originally Posted by RobMason

The concept you are stating is highly reminiscent of a system called capitalism. I think its practiced in places throughout the world.

Yes, and to my point is an even older wording, "caveat emptor".

[Mu Mu]

Originally Posted by jpuff

The majority of people on these forums really don't know the first thing about cars and it's very off-putting. The fact that people assume all BMW could do is "tune the engine with software" is sickening. They've forgotten what real mods are because like I said, they can just do a simple software tune and be done with the car.

This here is the truf! I think that a lot of people dont know BMW History nor do they follow BMW's new philosophies/changes in accordance with the Macro market/environmental changes. They might as well complain about all future M cars. I can virtually see the same people saying, "oh, why buy the upcoming f10 M5 when u can buy a 550 and chip it"! Bleh! Grow up folks and stop thinking in a 1 dimensional way! If u dont want, dont buy...but stop knocking something just because its new and unfamiliar up until u have tried it and have a greater perspective of it.

[The Guy]

Originally Posted by jpuff

There used to be a day where tuning a car didn't just mean doing software changes... M has always tuned engines, but they never simply increase boost or make ecu changes. They do real mods like bore the engine, increase stroke, create new headers/manifolds and ect. The majority of people on this forum are so used to tuning cars with a chip that they either forgot (or never understood to begin with) that their are a lot of other ways to tune cars... they just have never done it because they aren't any wiser and there's no need to when ecu mods yield 100hp gains.

The majority of people on these forums really don't know the first thing about cars and it's very off-putting. The fact that people assume all BMW could do is "tune the engine with software" is sickening. They've forgotten what real mods are because like I said, they can just do a simple software tune and be done with the car.

That’s just it..With the N54 and N55 why would you do anything other than a software tune if it’s going to net positive results at extremely low cost? I'm not worried about whether Joe blow on the forums knows the front bumper from the rear. I’m wondering about what BMW M division is going implement into the N54 for better performance. From a price prospective it’s a lot easier to just retune the N54 and call it a day. I know we can all say it’s not specialized M addition engine, but who are we going to fuss at about it. I’d love for it to be modified with larger turbos and better cooling, but won’t be disappointed when it’s the same engine as the 335is.

[Madozu]

^ You say it ... I'd like to see what they do to make the engine hold power and torque to the red-line and achieve a fast throttle response. Whether they call it "tuned N54" or "N54/N55 hybrid" or even "S55" is of no value to me

[Atropos]

Originally Posted by jpuff

There used to be a day where tuning a car didn't just mean doing software changes... M has always tuned engines, but they never simply increase boost or make ecu changes. They do real mods like bore the engine, increase stroke, create new headers/manifolds and ect. The majority of people on this forum are so used to tuning cars with a chip that they either forgot (or never understood to begin with) that their are a lot of other ways to tune cars... they just have never done it because they aren't any wiser and there's no need to when ecu mods yield 100hp gains.

The majority of people on these forums really don't know the first thing about cars and it's very off-putting. The fact that people assume all BMW could do is "tune the engine with software" is sickening. They've forgotten what real mods are because like I said, they can just do a simple software tune and be done with the car.

I think folks realize what "real" mods are, and then assess the fact that modifying the internals, hoping the aftermarket supports it with good quality components, and then hoping that it all comes together in a reliable package is an extremely expensive proposition.

Cars are rarely, if ever, tuned (and by this I mean ecu managed processes, A/F ratios, timing, etc) right off the showroom floor for their absolute best performance, because doing so normally puts a nice ding in MPG or smog testing. If this wasn't the case, the aftermarket would yield very unimpressive results for the dollar.

[Atropos]

Originally Posted by Madozu

^ You say it ... I'd like to see what they do to make the engine hold power and torque to the red-line and achieve a fast throttle response. Whether they call it "tuned N54" or "N54/N55 hybrid" or even "S55" is of no value to me

Redline is an arbitrary number as far as peak power goes. Take your dash apart, take some red nail polish, and extend the redline back to where you know your peak HP is, and viola

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any motors that actually make their peak right AT redline. Even in the world of motorcycles.

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by Atropos

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any motors that actually make their peak right AT redline. Even in the world of motorcycles.

S54, S65...

[bryce]

Originally Posted by Atropos

Redline is an arbitrary number as far as peak power goes. Take your dash apart, take some red nail polish, and extend the redline back to where you know your peak HP is, and viola

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any motors that actually make their peak right AT redline. Even in the world of motorcycles.

i had my old acura rsx type s dyno-tuned and it made peak power 200+ rpms AFTER the stock redline. the honda k20 and and the f22 from the s2000 both make peak power at or slightly after the factory redline

[grant]

Originally Posted by Atropos

Redline is an arbitrary number as far as peak power goes. Take your dash apart, take some red nail polish, and extend the redline back to where you know your peak HP is, and viola

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any motors that actually make their peak right AT redline. Even in the world of motorcycles.

Generally, it's helpful to have redline extend beyond peak hp (500-1,000 rpm or so, depending on gearing).

Since the objective is to keep the motor as close to peak hp as possible for as long as possible while accelerating, extending the redline a bit beyond that point allows more time near peak hp (upshifting past peak will put you a bit below peak in the next gear - but not as far below peak as if you were to shift right at peak, and on average your car will stay closer to peak power on the track).

I often hear people say to shift at peak torque or peak hp, but this is incorrect. With anything but a CVT transmission (where you can continue accelerating right at peak hp without shifting), shifting well above peak hp (if it can be done safely) is the way to go for maximum performance.

[HBspeed]

The GT3 3.8-liter makes peak power of 435 hp at 7660 rpm and redlines at 8500 rpm. This is an idea situation assuming the hp stays near peak all the way to redline allowing one to stay in a near peak hp powerband. There is a reason why the best motors are designed this way as the viability of a powerband is the area under the curve, not the peak.

[grant]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

The GT3 3.8-liter makes peak power of 435 hp at 7660 rpm and redlines at 8500 rpm. This is an idea situation assuming the hp stays near peak all the way to redline allowing one to stay in a near peak hp powerband. There is a reason why the best motors are designed this way as the viability of a powerband is the area under the curve, not the peak.

Yes, this is a good situation and would be even better if the GT3 had closer gear ratios (would be able to stay closer to peak for longer) like the GT3 Cup cars have. Hopefully, the next GT3 will have a close-ratio 7-speed manual (rumored) and PDK (not my preference), instead of the goofy gearing Porsche uses for the PDK with the current Carrera (6th is already an overdrive gear and 7th is a ridiculously tall cruising gear for mpg only).

I think BMW does a better job with its DCT gearing, IIRC.

[Atropos]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

S54, S65...

100 or 2 below redline for each iteration, but that is quite close indeed.

[jpuff]

Originally Posted by Atropos

I think folks realize what "real" mods are, and then assess the fact that modifying the internals, hoping the aftermarket supports it with good quality components, and then hoping that it all comes together in a reliable package is an extremely expensive proposition.

Cars are rarely, if ever, tuned (and by this I mean ecu managed processes, A/F ratios, timing, etc) right off the showroom floor for their absolute best performance, because doing so normally puts a nice ding in MPG or smog testing. If this wasn't the case, the aftermarket would yield very unimpressive results for the dollar.

My point though is that those real mods (engine internals, suspension hardware, etc) and not software mods, will make a car an entirely different animal than just the run-of-the-mill aftermarket ecu tune. Even if an ecu tune nets you more hp than a new M car, the new M car will feel much different because the engine is modified in a completely different way.

[Atropos]

Originally Posted by jpuff

My point though is that those real mods (engine internals, suspension hardware, etc) and not software mods, will make a car an entirely different animal than just the run-of-the-mill aftermarket ecu tune. Even if an ecu tune nets you more hp than a new M car, the new M car will feel much different because the engine is modified in a completely different way.

I'd agree completely.

[///Mangler]

Do any of you really think ///M is going to put out a half assed effort and have to deal with what happened with the S52B32? The US market is the market that makes or breaks ///M sales figures and allows these cars to be built.

Quit all the fortune telling and wait for solid information. It will be a real ///M engine with the ///Magic touch.

T

[JB135MDCT]

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

Do any of you really think ///M is going to put out a half assed effort and have to deal with what happened with the S52B32? The US market is the market that makes or breaks ///M sales figures and allows these cars to be built.

Quit all the fortune telling and wait for solid information. It will be a real ///M engine with the ///Magic touch.

T

I think this is a good attitude,but how will they get the redline over 8k to classify as a true Mcar?

[Evice]

if this car goes up to $50k range with very basic creature comforts.... my money goes to a slightly used Cayman S. If you want real heritage, there we go P-cars, they didn't let down yet.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by JB135MDCT

I think this is a good attitude,but how will they get the redline over 8k to classify as a true Mcar?

That is probably a thing of the past, the 8k redline anyway...

Look at the X5M or X6M--these are indications of things to come....

I am sure BMW will be in the 7-7.5K redline range for the 1M, but as another poster said, if they can extend the N54 power band, and not have it drop off like an anvil at 5K RPM, they are going to have a winner on their hands.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Evice

if this car goes up to $50k range with very basic creature comforts.... my money goes to a slightly used Cayman S. If you want real heritage, there we go P-cars, they didn't let down yet.

I will definitely look at the Cayman while shopping the 1M.....that is a good point....

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by JB135MDCT

I think this is a good attitude,but how will they get the redline over 8k to classify as a true Mcar?

I'm so sick of these posts referencing a "real ///M car" or whatever. Guess what? If BMW says it's an ///M, then it's an ///M, whether or not you, I , or anyone else likes it, agrees with it, or approves.

It doesn't need to have a CF roof, or quad exhausts, or an 8K redline - I'm sure the engineers at ///M are smart enough to not limit themselves by enforcing self-imposed and arbitrary design parameters that never change.