aFe headers?

[kobeballer96]

STIG where's your dyno man? Lol it's been like a year now............

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

If you don't have a car with downstream catalyst (as pictured in the diagram above) then what?

Not my concern But seriously, I'd go a custom route to go to a smaller cell count. Expensive, but gotta pay to play in SCCA Solo

This is where I get to say, N51 FTW

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...76&hg=18&fg=10

[Taskmaster]

Expensive? Probably cheaper - outside of superSprint and AFE there aren't any more header options -THAT's the expensive part. The exhaust is simple.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by kobeballer96

STIG where's your dyno man? Lol it's been like a year now............

In the grand scheme of things, not particularly high on my priority list. Between work, maintaining 3 cars myself, and everything else in life, I don't have a huge amount of free time.

631twentyeighteye is fairly local though, so we are trying to work out a time to do a pull. Free way to see real world performance of two different approaches to 128i power modding.

[MarkkyyMan]

[Taskmaster]

Want headers?

http://www.schmiedmann.es/3_series/e...age9.htm#18463



$777 shipped. Next on my list.

[tuphdc]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Want headers?

http://www.schmiedmann.es/3_series/e...age9.htm#18463



$777 shipped. Next on my list.

interesting...so any n52 headers work on the 128? and these needs the Evolve tune right, to pass emissions?

[631twentyeighteye]

Interested to see how they fit as well as their gains. Planning any dyno's after the install?

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by tuphdc

interesting...so any n52 headers work on the 128? and these needs the Evolve tune right, to pass emissions?

Supposedly Evolve can tune for the CEL , I'll have to ask OE if they can do it as well.

Originally Posted by 631twentyeighteye

Interested to see how they fit as well as their gains. Planning any dyno's after the install?

Of course. Next week is going to be my 3 Stage manifold Dyno (probably a before and after software comparison too) and then I'll install the intake and dyno that too. Later on, when my wallet recovers, I can grab that and do a final tune/dyno.

[TheSt|G]

Any other crap headers we can lump into this thread? Would be nice to have as a reference for what not to buy for new members.

Those bends right off the flange might as well be right angles.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Any other crap headers we can lump into this thread? Would be nice to have as a reference for what not to buy for new members.

Those bends right off the flange might as well be right angles.

Yea that isn't pretty.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Any other crap headers we can lump into this thread? Would be nice to have as a reference for what not to buy for new members.

Those bends right off the flange might as well be right angles.

Will make 0 difference once it's mounted on the car. Crap because it's not Super Sprint, lol - ok.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Will make 0 difference once it's mounted on the car. Crap because it's not Super Sprint, lol - ok.

You are saying it will make no gains? Why bother installing it then?

New flash, headers aren't easy to make well. Yes, deleting cats will always get you some improvement, but that hardly means you have a well designed product. There is a reason very well respected companies like Akrapovic don't even bother trying. This has nothing to do with Supersprint, other than their headers being the benchmark in the industry.


Reminds me of the recent thread on M3Forum. Everyone was getting excited for CPI stepped headers(largely a Supersprint knockoff). The vendor was making claims such as "NO other header on the market makes that much torque!", and the pictures looked appealing to the masses:





And then finally someone got them and dyno'd them independently with a tune for the headers. Ended up losing torque down low and making just 15hp at the very top end. And yet another group of people wasted their money.


The bottom line is you can't just crap out a set of pipes and expect it to be good. Designing a highly effective set of headers is a skill set that takes years to develop.

[MarkkyyMan]

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=473422

My buddy really likes those headers..

You no like Frank Smith either?

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

You are saying it will make no gains? Why bother installing it then?

New flash, headers aren't easy to make well. Yes, deleting cats will always get you some improvement, but that hardly means you have a well designed product. There is a reason very well respected companies like Akrapovic don't even bother trying. This has nothing to do with Supersprint, other than their headers being the benchmark in the industry.


Reminds me of the recent thread on M3Forum. Everyone was getting excited for CPI stepped headers(largely a Supersprint knockoff). The vendor was making claims such as "NO other header on the market makes that much torque!", and the pictures looked appealing to the masses:





And then finally someone got them and dyno'd them independently with a tune for the headers. Ended up losing torque down low and making just 15hp at the very top end. And yet another group of people wasted their money.


The bottom line is you can't just crap out a set of pipes and expect it to be good. Designing a highly effective set of headers is a skill set that takes years to develop.

I agree, not all headers are equal, but I explained to you that header design is largely based on a few set variables, including exhaust velocity, pipe length, and diameter. You could could theoretically make your own headers if you have the materials by using one of the many available header calculators.

I'm critical of everything you say because you really DON'T know. You made a comment about the bend and yet you ignore that these look similar to SuperSprint and the bends are no more aggressive than OEM.
What experience do you have with Schmiedmann products? What do you know about header design to comment on the bends?


Wow, look at those bends. (On the right is OEM and on the left is Schmiedmann.) I guess BMW doesn't know how to design headers.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I agree, not all headers are equal, but I explained to you that header design is largely based on a few set variables, including exhaust velocity, pipe length, and diameter. You could could theoretically make your own headers if you have the materials by using one of the many available header calculators.

I'm critical of everything you say because you really DON'T know. You made a comment about the bend and yet you ignore that these look similar to SuperSprint and the bends are no more aggressive than OEM.
What experience do you have with Schmiedmann products? What do you know about header design to comment on the bends?

Wow, look at those bends. (On the right is OEM and on the left is Schmiedmann.) I guess BMW doesn't know how to design headers.

I have had private tours of a number of the big name manufacturers(Supersprint, Fabspeed, etc). I have spoken for hours with their engineers about proper design(which is more experience dependent than most would think). I've read numerous well researched tech articles on the subject. And I have had a great deal of first had experience with multiple products on various platforms, and the dyno results yielded(among other metrics).

What exactly is your experience again?

BMW's considerations when building a header have little to do with optimization(as they have other considerations like NVH, emissions, cost), so comparing them to the aftermarket is silly at best. But given that with the exception of the S65 there are gains to be made, I would hardly use them as the pinnacle of design. Pop your hood and look at the stock crap collectors if you have any doubts.

Schmiedman is not a name in the exhaust community. Those headers are the equivalent to the store brand cola. The focus is on cheapness. Just from a glance we can see that the pipes are not of equal length and the bends coming off the manifold are unnecessarily sharp in places where they don't need to be. And that's before we get into measuring what levels of inHG they are putting out and such.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Overpriced catalyst that have shown 0 gains over more abundant options like Random Technology. You sure do like to throw around brand names, don't you?

Good cats are expensive, due to needing extremely expensive materials (platinum). Being expensive is no guarantee of goodness, but being cheaper does guarantee that things can't be made to the same standard as a (well made) more expensive product). Random tech cats any those spiedman headers both are solid options for the price, but that doesn't mean they're as good as HJS/SS.

Similarly, this Axiom is cheaper than the 128i and provides 100% of the utility of it. Does that make it a better choice? Clearly, at some level you understand the benefit of a premium product, or you'd be driving a crappier (but just as useful and cheaper!) car.

[Taskmaster]

Pretty sure those headers are direct copy of the SS headers (under licensed use) So now what?
HJS only offers a 2 year warranty on their catalyst, meaning they don't expect them to last as long as OEM parts, and yet are more costly. See where I'm going with this? Quality isn't a brand name.

[Taskmaster]

An axiom is the beginning of reason, I wasn't referring to the truck. ;-)

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Pretty sure those headers are direct copy of the SS headers (under licensed use) So now what?
HJS only offers a 2 year warranty on their catalyst, meaning they don't expect them to last as long as OEM parts, and yet are more costly. See where I'm going with this? Quality isn't a brand name.

Supersprint does not license copies of their designs, point blank. Not that they look anything like the Supersprint units either way.

Toyota doesn't include maintenance in their warranty period. It must mean they are expensive to maintain. See where I'm going with this?

[Obioban]

Bmw's part warranty is two years as well

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Supersprint does not license copies of their designs, point blank. Not that they look anything like the Supersprint units either way.

Toyota doesn't include maintenance in their warranty period. It must mean they are expensive to maintain. See where I'm going with this?

They look exactly alike, and they also sell Super Sprint products.When I leave this movie I'll be happy to post pictures.BMW's maintenance program is crap, and everyone knows it - 15K oil changes. Ok.