N54 vs N55

[135Pats]

Oof not this argument again....

Every N54 ever made put into any BMW = forged crank, forged rods, cast pistons. Does not matter what chassis, what MY, what the humidity was on that particular day. An N54 is an N54, no such thing as an E60 N54 vs an E93 N54.

Every N55 ever made put into any BMW = cast crank, cast rods, cast pistons. At current power levels, that has not shown itself to be an issue.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Oof not this argument again....

Every N54 ever made put into any BMW = forged crank, forged rods, cast pistons. Does not matter what chassis, what MY, what the humidity was on that particular day. An N54 is an N54, no such thing as an E60 N54 vs an E93 N54.

Every N55 ever made put into any BMW = cast crank, cast rods, cast pistons. At current power levels, that has not shown itself to be an issue.

Werd

[Solo_M_Tech]

IMO, and from what I have seen here in Germany, the N55 is good for about 380 ps. In a stable daily driver situation. Can they be tuned for more? yes, but German tuners will not do it. They claim the harsh driving on the Autobahns wear down the N55 faster due to extended high speed driving and weaker internal components. Would this be as much of an issue state-side? Probably not. I have not seen an N55 failure yet..... With that said, here in Germany the N54 is regarded as the German 2JZ. It's very supported, very heavily modded and tuned, and is vastly prefered over the N55. I've seen a dozen 450+ WHP N54's with and without methanol being driven daily. Tuningwerkes out of Munich, a very respected BMW tuning shop here, recently completed an N55 powered M235i. 435 WHP is possible, but they replaced everything in the engine with forged components to increase the durability. I've heard this debate over and over here. I don't see why it matters, unless your trying to vastly overpower the capabilities of the car, there is no point exceeding 380-400 hp in these cars. Brakes, suspension and chassis modifications should be priority IMO. It's still really cool to see these cars stomping Ferraris and Lambos on the autobahn though! I say it doesn't matter which engine platform you pick..... If crazy power levels are your thing, go N54. Iron block is better for crazy boost.

[lastMleft]

Originally Posted by Sinister_1

IMO, and from what I have seen here in Germany, the N55 is good for about 380 ps. In a stable daily driver situation. Can they be tuned for more? yes, but German tuners will not do it. They claim the harsh driving on the Autobahns wear down the N55 faster due to extended high speed driving and weaker internal components. Would this be as much of an issue state-side? Probably not. I have not seen an N55 failure yet..... With that said, here in Germany the N54 is regarded as the German 2JZ. It's very supported, very heavily modded and tuned, and is vastly prefered over the N55. I've seen a dozen 450+ WHP N54's with and without methanol being driven daily. Tuningwerkes out of Munich, a very respected BMW tuning shop here, recently completed an N55 powered M235i. 435 WHP is possible, but they replaced everything in the engine with forged components to increase the durability. I've heard this debate over and over here. I don't see why it matters, unless your trying to vastly overpower the capabilities of the car, there is no point exceeding 380-400 hp in these cars. Brakes, suspension and chassis modifications should be priority IMO. It's still really cool to see these cars stomping Ferraris and Lambos on the autobahn though! I say it doesn't matter which engine platform you pick..... If crazy power levels are your thing, go N54. Iron block is better for crazy boost.

Well said

[ParkNuts]

Originally Posted by Sinister_1

IMO, and from what I have seen here in Germany, the N55 is good for about 380 ps. In a stable daily driver situation. Can they be tuned for more? yes, but German tuners will not do it. They claim the harsh driving on the Autobahns wear down the N55 faster due to extended high speed driving and weaker internal components. Would this be as much of an issue state-side? Probably not. I have not seen an N55 failure yet..... With that said, here in Germany the N54 is regarded as the German 2JZ. It's very supported, very heavily modded and tuned, and is vastly prefered over the N55. I've seen a dozen 450+ WHP N54's with and without methanol being driven daily. Tuningwerkes out of Munich, a very respected BMW tuning shop here, recently completed an N55 powered M235i. 435 WHP is possible, but they replaced everything in the engine with forged components to increase the durability. I've heard this debate over and over here. I don't see why it matters, unless your trying to vastly overpower the capabilities of the car, there is no point exceeding 380-400 hp in these cars. Brakes, suspension and chassis modifications should be priority IMO. It's still really cool to see these cars stomping Ferraris and Lambos on the autobahn though! I say it doesn't matter which engine platform you pick..... If crazy power levels are your thing, go N54. Iron block is better for crazy boost.

Where are the motor failures prompting this belief? As far as I know, very few N55's have exceeded 400 whp. However, the torque numbers FBO with methanol are ridiculous, which is more dangerous to what you'd like to call fragile rods. You talk like it's been established that the N55 will fail with power but I just haven't seen much substantiating it aside from guys with N54's flinging their poo at the N55 bc of lack of development.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by ParkNuts

Where are the motor failures prompting this belief? As far as I know, very few N55's have exceeded 400 whp. However, the torque numbers FBO with methanol are ridiculous, which is more dangerous to what you'd like to call fragile rods. You talk like it's been established that the N55 will fail with power but I just haven't seen much substantiating it aside from guys with N54's flinging their poo at the N55 bc of lack of development.

This discussion is always about what some unnamed mechanic said (or sometimes it's the "my dad is a sales rep at a used BMW dealer so he knows"), rather than actual real world data.

[MuNkY6913]

Originally Posted by ParkNuts

Where are the motor failures prompting this belief? As far as I know, very few N55's have exceeded 400 whp. However, the torque numbers FBO with methanol are ridiculous, which is more dangerous to what you'd like to call fragile rods. You talk like it's been established that the N55 will fail with power but I just haven't seen much substantiating it aside from guys with N54's flinging their poo at the N55 bc of lack of development.

Ahahaha. Poo flingers! Love it. We need a smilie that does that.

[MuNkY6913]

Still think there's something to say about a N54 beating a N55. Even with the new upgrade to the N55 turbo. Keep hearing about the possible 400+. Stop talking about possibilities. The facts are the STOCK N54 twin turbo engine is better than the STOCK N55 single turbo with the same bolt on mods, not touching either turbos. I'm really glad BMW went back to the twin turbo for the S55 engine. Haha. Look out for the poo!!!

[darkrom]

People are saying its all theoretical. Lets state facts. The N54 internals are stronger. At SOME point you'll need to beef up the N55 internals before you would the N54. We don't know what point that is, because N55 guys haven't broken the 500 HP/TQ range that I can find.

Its $4-5k tops to swap some oem upgraded RB turbos on my N54 to hit 500+ HP/TQ. How much money does it cost to get an N55 to 500+? We don't know because no one has done it. Yet there are people here claiming they are equal. Hit 500 HP on a N55 and see if it lasts. Someone put their money where their mouth is

I'd LOVE for the N55 to be able to hold its shit. I don't own an N55 but why wouldn't I hope everyone can have fun with mods? I just find it hard to believe people saying that "just because the internals ARE better on the N54, it doesn't make it capable of holding more power".

[slampig]

Tuning options suck for N55. Torque is what bends rods, especially at low engine speeds. On turbo direct injection cars the tune is everything and hard parts are only supporting players.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

N55 is making 477WHP and over 500WTQ on Terry's car now for well over 6 months, this is not just daily driving this is drag strip, this is roll racing, this is dyno sessions. All without a hiccup. We will not know what the N55 can take until we start breaking them, funny people all said the N54 was good for X because some guy in Germany said so, well we made 725WHP and its still alive, now we have a stock frame set up making 650WTQ at 3700RPM for hundreds of pulls and thousands of miles, of testing and track time and its fine. We will see what the N55 can handle very soon. We have a customer coming in for Stage 2, Shotgun HPFP upgrade, and a few other tricks, this will be the first N55 over 500WHP.

[GR1P]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

N55 is making 477WHP and over 500WTQ on Terry's car now for well over 6 months, this is not just daily driving this is drag strip, this is roll racing, this is dyno sessions. All without a hiccup. We will not know what the N55 can take until we start breaking them, funny people all said the N54 was good for X because some guy in Germany said so, well we made 725WHP and its still alive, now we have a stock frame set up making 650WTQ at 3700RPM for hundreds of pulls and thousands of miles, of testing and track time and its fine. We will see what the N55 can handle very soon. We have a customer coming in for Stage 2, Shotgun HPFP upgrade, and a few other tricks, this will be the first N55 over 500WHP.

Thank you.

The thoerycrafting on this thread is out of control.

[MuNkY6913]

Haha. N55 = weak.

[MuNkY6913]

Originally Posted by GR1P

Thank you.

The thoerycrafting on this thread is out of control.

I have a theory. I'll let you craft the ?'s into real numbers. Not potential numbers.

N54 stock turbos max whp= ?
N55 stock turbo max whp= ?

Now let's do it a different way.

N54 modified turbos max whp= ?
N55 modified turbo max whp= ?

Think I see a pattern.

[GR1P]

Originally Posted by MuNkY6913

I have a theory. I'll let you craft the ?'s into real numbers. Not potential numbers.

N54 stock turbos max whp= ?
N55 stock turbo max whp= ?

Now let's do it a different way.

N54 modified turbos max whp= ?
N55 modified turbo max whp= ?

Think I see a pattern.

Yeah, but again, we'd only be talking about the limitations of the turbo setup, not the engine. The n55 just hasn't been pushed to failure yet.

The only pattern I'm seeing is the n54 fanboidom in your posts.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by MuNkY6913

I have a theory. I'll let you craft the ?'s into real numbers. Not potential numbers.

N54 stock turbos max whp= ?
N55 stock turbo max whp= ?

Now let's do it a different way.

N54 modified turbos max whp= ?
N55 modified turbo max whp= ?

Think I see a pattern.

I also have a theory

Someone posts = Munky acts like a douche
Someone else posts = Munky acts like a douche

Think I see a pattern.

[MuNkY6913]

Originally Posted by GR1P

Yeah, but again, we'd only be talking about the limitations of the turbo setup, not the engine. The n55 just hasn't been pushed to failure yet.

The only pattern I'm seeing is the n54 fanboidom in your posts.

So your implying the N54 has seen the limitations? That's cool. Didn't know that. Do you happen to know the number for that? Would like to know. Not sure if I posted this in the right thread. This is the N54 vs N55 thread? Posted some ?'s on one vs the other and a possible pattern. Since I own a N54 I guess I am a fan.

[MuNkY6913]

Originally Posted by Nugget

I also have a theory

Someone posts = Munky acts like a douche
Someone else posts = Munky acts like a douche

Think I see a pattern.

Way to side step on that. Jealousy rears it's ugly head again and the name calling starts. I guess I would be a little mad if my car was that slow too. Hahaha.

[GR1P]

Originally Posted by MuNkY6913

Way to side step on that. Jealousy rears it's ugly head again and the name calling starts. I guess I would be a little mad if my car was that slow too. Hahaha.

You're screaming for proof that we all know doesn't exist, hence the need for all this internet theorycrafting and your emotional fanboy responses to everyone.

Neither platform has been taken to its limits. So at this point in time, the n54 has better turbo setups and tuning available and is a great choice for enthusiasts. The n55 is still 5 years behind in aftermarket support but is rapidly gaining. Its going to be a while before we get a definite answer.

My n55 is smooth and powerful but has sacrificed some top end tunability for the increased reliability of a simpler single turbo setup.

In the future, if my block isnt up to the task of daily 500+whp, I'll build the block. Big deal.

[ShocknAwe]

I don't see what the debate is all about. The N54 is more internally durable thanks to select forged internals and is capable of making more power on the stock frame. The N55 on the other hand is more reliable at low power levels, builds less carbon, more fuel efficient, and once modified with big turbo single turbo setups will probably perform similarly to an equivalently built N54.

Stop stroking your dicks.

[MuNkY6913]

Originally Posted by GR1P

You're screaming for proof that we all know doesn't exist, hence the need for all this internet theorycrafting and your emotional fanboy responses to everyone.

Neither platform has been taken to its limits. So at this point in time, the n54 has better turbo setups and tuning available and is a great choice for enthusiasts. The n55 is still 5 years behind in aftermarket support but is rapidly gaining. Its going to be a while before we get a definite answer.

My n55 is smooth and powerful but has sacrificed some top end tunability for the increased reliability of a simpler single turbo setup.

In the future, if my block isnt up to the task of daily 500+whp, I'll build the block. Big deal.

Pretty sure there was no emotion attached to anything I said. Except maybe the laughter could be tied to happiness. I'm not screaming for anything. Just pointing out advantages/disadvantages which is what the original post was about. Unless I read it wrong. Your comments about fanboy can be directed back at you. How is that even an insult, your trying to use it that way. Hey your a fan of something. Hahaha. Good one. Not sure what your hunting for. Glad your car runs so smooth, and you know where it's sacrifices lie. Not sure how much simpler the setup is either. Sounds pretty complicated. Also looks like your ready for the future and ready to build the block at a moments notice. Congrats. Why can't I take advantage of the situation before it advances 5 years and then I can't say anything? I think I'm allowed to poke fun while I have the chance. By the way your car is slow. Haha.

[GR1P]

Originally Posted by MuNkY6913

Pretty sure there was no emotion attached to anything I said. Except maybe the laughter could be tied to happiness. I'm not screaming for anything. Just pointing out advantages/disadvantages which is what the original post was about. Unless I read it wrong. Your comments about fanboy can be directed back at you. How is that even an insult, your trying to use it that way. Hey your a fan of something. Hahaha. Good one. Not sure what your hunting for. Glad your car runs so smooth, and you know where it's sacrifices lie. Not sure how much simpler the setup is either. Sounds pretty complicated. Also looks like your ready for the future and ready to build the block at a moments notice. Congrats. Why can't I take advantage of the situation before it advances 5 years and then I can't say anything? I think I'm allowed to poke fun while I have the chance. By the way your car is slow. Haha.

If that's all you intended, then great. But you come off extremely obnoxious.