Purchase Offer with Maco/Training Help Needed

[cadeucsb]

I am looking for some advice on preparing my offer to submit to dealers for my 135i. What I am debating now is how to attack maco/training costs which generally are charged to the dealers and not negotiable.

Should I offer straight invoice + 500 or so and let them counter with training/maco in case they don't charge maco for example. With this method if they come back asking for a couple hundred in fees, ill can ask for floormats.

Second idea is throw out a higher offer like invoice + 900 and say the offer includes dealer profit and all dealer fees.

Any thoughts?

[Add1ct]

so are you doing ED?

if the car is on the lot in this market and you are paying invoice or more then you'd be making the dealers day

[singular]

Originally Posted by cadeucsb

I am looking for some advice on preparing my offer to submit to dealers for my 135i. What I am debating now is how to attack maco/training costs which generally are charged to the dealers and not negotiable.

Should I offer straight invoice + 500 or so and let them counter with training/maco in case they don't charge maco for example. With this method if they come back asking for a couple hundred in fees, ill can ask for floormats.

Second idea is throw out a higher offer like invoice + 900 and say the offer includes dealer profit and all dealer fees.

Any thoughts?

Offer invoice + xxx and let them figure out how they want to account for MACO and training. All you should care about is the bottom line.

Part of the trick to negotiating is that both parties need to feel good about a deal, otherwise it's not going to happen.

[cadeucsb]

Originally Posted by singular

Offer invoice + xxx and let them figure out how they want to account for MACO and training. All you should care about is the bottom line.

Part of the trick to negotiating is that both parties need to feel good about a deal, otherwise it's not going to happen.

That is probably the route I would go, but have to figure out what a reasonable amount over invoice is to offer that would allow them to include the fees but still get a good price and get my offer accepted.

So far I am thinking invoice + $700 or so....I ask because I am going to execute the armchair method.

Not doing ED and car will be ordered.

[pheller]

I offered $800 over invoice on ED via the arm chair method, and the dealer went for it without batting an eyelash -- and this was last may.

If you're looking at something in inventory, I think you can do better than I did. Don't forget to factor in the BMW Financing incentive (2 payments off) if you're going that route.

[singular]

Originally Posted by cadeucsb

That is probably the route I would go, but have to figure out what a reasonable amount over invoice is to offer that would allow them to include the fees but still get a good price and get my offer accepted.

So far I am thinking invoice + $700 or so....I ask because I am going to execute the armchair method.

Not doing ED and car will be ordered.

I used this method too and got invoice + $500 in December on a 2009 special order. Only about 1/3d of the dealers responded. The closer to invoice you get, the wider your net should be.

You may be able to get lower, I've heard others say they got invoice + $0. This is believable based on the fact that there is other profit built into the invoice price.

You need to also consider this: if you cut so close that no-one responds, what are you going to do? FAX them again with a higher price? At that point you've lost a lot of your advantage because you've proved to them that you're willing to cave and that no other dealer accepted your first offer.

[cadeucsb]

Originally Posted by pheller

I offered $800 over invoice on ED via the arm chair method, and the dealer went for it without batting an eyelash -- and this was last may.

If you're looking at something in inventory, I think you can do better than I did. Don't forget to factor in the BMW Financing incentive (2 payments off) if you're going that route.

definitely ordering a semi stripper model (M Sport, Le Mans, iPod)...all the lot models here in CO have premium and cold weather which drives up the price significantly.

[Add1ct]

I leased mine in september and it was on the lot and got it for just under invoice, considering the market, if you want one that's on the lot you should be able to get below invoice, and I'd say for ED $250 over invoice tops, I would suggest the assist/bluetooth too, so you don't have to add it later like I did- unless you don't use your cell a lot

[BlackjackMulligan]

It also depends on what the dealer considers "invoice". Their version of invoice when I ordered included the MACO/Training fee. Most people don't include that in their definition of invoice. Just be sure that you and he are talking about the same "invoice price" . I offered $500 over "their" invoice.

[singular]

Originally Posted by BlackjackMulligan

It also depends on what the dealer considers "invoice". Their version of invoice when I ordered included the MACO/Training fee. Most people don't include that in their definition of invoice. Just be sure that you and he are talking about the same "invoice price" . I offered $500 over "their" invoice.

You're right, the dealers often claim MACO and training as part of "invoice".

The official BMW of North America, LLC Confidential Wholesale Price and their Suggested Retail Price sheets do not include MACO and Training fees.

I based my offer on the wholesale price as invoice. The dealer accounted for MACO and Training in the "dealer profit" that I priced into my offer.

In the end, all that matters is what you pay.

[dbtheo]

Originally Posted by singular

You're right, the dealers often claim MACO and training as part of "invoice".

The official BMW of North America, LLC Confidential Wholesale Price and their Suggested Retail Price sheets do not include MACO and Training fees.

The reason the general price sheets do not include maco is because not all dealers have it. It is typically region/ market specific. If the dealer is in a "maco" market. Then ALL invoices provided by BMWNA include maco as part of the invoice, the dealer has no way around it. Dealers don't create their own invoices, we print them directly from BMW's data base. Training fee is all price lists (at the top of page) and is part of all invoices (except ED).

[cadeucsb]

This is how I am preparing my arm chair method sheet for a couple dealers, since I am not working with a specific dealer, it has to be general enough to account for dealers with and without maco, etc...

Base Invoice
+
Options at invoice price
=
Subtotal
+
Dealer Profit (to include fees like training and maco)
=
Offer

This way if they come back and say my subtotal is wrong because they include maco/training higher up in the equation, I can say ok, then reduce the dealer proft line by that much and still be at the same offer.

The struggle is coming up with a dealer profit number that is as cheap as possible, but still has enough room to account for their fees etc.

$100 dealer profit that includes fees isnt realistic....but have to come up with a small enough dealer profit number that is reasonable...so far that number is somewhere between $500 and $800 in my head with $500 being fees if they charge both...so $500 is getting the car for invoice.

[ARES45]

Call around, see what dealer fees are, then buy at the one that has the least fees while throwing them a few hundred in profit. The best way to do it is the arm chair method, don't worry about the fees, just figure out invoice + profit. If the dealer has fees then that is on them. give them a number like 36000 (or whatever invoice+profit comes out to be) after fees, make sure you say after fees in the offer so they dont add it on later and call it the 'standard fees they have to charge.' Good luck and enjoy.

[Add1ct]

I love the formality. My experience was on the whole much more crude. I went to Alexander BMW in LA and said will you do invoice- show me the payments and I'll decide, they did, I said not good enough and left- they didn't stop me, went 10 miles down the road to McKenna on the same car, said Alexander would do x,y and z, what will you do, getting ready to leave at invoice, they stopped me!

[singular]

IMO - it's not worth dithering about a couple hundred here or there. Even $400 is probably less than 1% of your final price, unless your talking about a stripped down model in a no-or-low tax state. You'll probably spend that much on car care products.

You will know you underbid if no one responds to your FAX. You will know you overbid if anyone responds! It's kind of like buying a stock at the bottom or selling it at the top. At some point you just got to pull the trigger and get on with your life.

[cadeucsb]

Originally Posted by singular

IMO - it's not worth dithering about a couple hundred here or there. Even $400 is probably less than 1% of your final price, unless your talking about a stripped down model in a no-or-low tax state. You'll probably spend that much on car care products.

You will know you underbid if no one responds to your FAX. You will know you overbid if anyone responds! It's kind of like buying a stock at the bottom or selling it at the top. At some point you just got to pull the trigger and get on with your life.

Yea, I am not too worried about how much I will pay in the end within reason, more about the method of the offer being that's its going to go to several dealers that may have differing fees.

[Alow]

Originally Posted by cadeucsb

Yea, I am not too worried about how much I will pay in the end within reason, more about the method of the offer being that's its going to go to several dealers that may have differing fees.

So how about this. Assumptions are you are NOT doing ED and you are ordering a car (not one off the lot)

I believe training fee is the same for any dealer (since you are not doing ED) and that is $180ish. MACO I've seen it in invoices for $250, although my local dealer claims his is $450, but I have not seen their invoice. Take $350 as average cost.

offer base invoice + options at invoice + $180 (training) + $350 (MACO average) + $200 pure profit.

If their MACO is $250, thats $300 dealer profit. Still good deal.

If their MACO is $400, thats $150 dealer profit. Awesome deal.

If they have no MACO, profit is $550. Highest profit you'd be willing to pay and feel good about the deal.

Adjust the $200 pure profit so that you are comfortable with all scenarios.

[cadeucsb]

Originally Posted by Alow

So how about this. Assumptions are you are NOT doing ED and you are ordering a car (not one off the lot)

I believe training fee is the same for any dealer (since you are not doing ED) and that is $180ish. MACO I've seen it in invoices for $250, although my local dealer claims his is $450, but I have not seen their invoice. Take $350 as average cost.

offer base invoice + options at invoice + $180 (training) + $350 (MACO average) + $200 pure profit.

If their MACO is $250, thats $300 dealer profit. Still good deal.

If their MACO is $400, thats $150 dealer profit. Awesome deal.

If they have no MACO, profit is $550. Highest profit you'd be willing to pay and feel good about the deal.

Adjust the $200 pure profit so that you are comfortable with all scenarios.

Yea, I think that would be the route I would go...just find a '$200' that is reasonable, but your scenario is close to what I figured...true invoice + 800 or so and let them apply maco/training/dealer profit as they see fit.