Road/Race Track Car Setups

[savowood]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

You make some good points and seem to be very knowlegeable, but i disagree about HT-10 being better than DTC-70. I tryed both and DTC-70 pads are much better than HT-10 for our front calipers in every way.

You're right, they are better for full time track use. I'd lean a little more to the HT-10 though when it comes to a dual purpose car, with more street than track use. It's really a tough call to make, and you make a good point, other than the cold temperature case. The HT-10 becomes more usable much sooner. however, it can't take quite as much heat as the DTC pads, so I'm torn on the recommendation.

[savowood]

Originally Posted by 02rsxpilot

Thanks Savowood for taking the time to do such a great write-up. Knowledge is rampant on forums, but wisdom is not. Your post includes both. How refreshing!

I appreciate the kind words. I'll try not to let it go to my head.

[froop]

Originally Posted by IncrediBrian

Thanks for your input...I've heard many different opinions from various people. I've heard that the n54 was stronger (forged internals) > n55 (cast internals). I'm a 6mt fan myself and drove a 6mt n54 and a DCT n55...honestly the butt-dyno liked the DCT soooo much better. Also, your opinion on the Full M3 conversion...you would want this over any other aftermarket brand? That speaks volumes for the M tuning. As far as the intake options, this is the first I've heard of this, but then again, I do not own one yet. Great info though, thanks again!

Hi OP,

When people are talking about the M3 conversion they don't really mean a 100% full M3 conversion including the dampers and springs but are more referring to the bits the other bits that can be straight swapped and then getting coilovers.

M3 parts that can be straight swapped are:

Front Lower Control Arms and Headlight Sensor Rods
Front Anti-Roll Bar (E90/92 26.5mm, E93 28mm)
Rear Anti-Roll Bar (E90/92 22.5mm, E93 23.5mm)
Rear Upper Guide Rods
Rear Upper Links
Rear Lower Camber Link (will require M3 compatible rear shocks)
Rear Toe Arm (compatible only if using the M3 hubs and subframe, must get an aftermarket adjustable toe arm if not using M3 hubs)
Rear Subframe
Rear Subframe Bushings
Rear Axle Shafts
Rear LSD (DCT 3.15, 6MT 3.86)

The front subframe cannot be changed (1M also has a 135i front subframe). The prop shaft needs to be semi-custom fabricated as the rear joint is not compatible with the M3 LSD. The hubs can be swapped over, but you will then require a set of M3 compatible brakes as well.

It is possible to do everything that I've listed without getting the rear subframe, axleshafts, LSD and toe arms but the M3 subframe is better constructed being both lighter and stronger.

I've recently just done all of the above on my car with the exception of the subframe bushings (I went with solid aluminium bushings) so if you need any help with it all, please feel free to ask or check out my build thread.

My take on your list would be

n54 or n55: N54
Step/DCT/Man: 6MT
Braking Mods: Stock (RB 2-Piece front rotors, SS brake lines, remove front dust shields, RB caliper rebuild kit, appropriate pads) OR BBK
Drivetrain Mods: BMWP SSK, CDV delete, LSD
Electrical Mods: JB4/Procede with Backend ECU Flash
Engine Mods: Mr5 CAI, FMIC, CP, Oil Cooler Kit
Exhaust Mods: Catless DPs, Catless Resonated Mids, any high flow muffler (CP-E, Berk. AA)
Exterior Aero Mods: 1M or ER widebody kit
Roll Cage/Harness Bar Mods: BR Racing Bolt-In Half Cage and Harness Bar
Suspension Mods: M3 Bolt-ons, good set of coilovers (Ohlins R&T)
Tires (specs): Hankook RS3s
Wheels (specs): Apex Arc-8s

[ASPEC135i]

^ I would LOVE to have that "ideal 135i setup"!!!

Now if only $ grew on trees........

[IncrediBrian]

Originally Posted by froop

Hi OP,

When people are talking about the M3 conversion they don't really mean a 100% full M3 conversion including the dampers and springs but are more referring to the bits the other bits that can be straight swapped and then getting coilovers.

M3 parts that can be straight swapped are:

Front Lower Control Arms and Headlight Sensor Rods
Front Anti-Roll Bar (E90/92 26.5mm, E93 28mm)
Rear Anti-Roll Bar (E90/92 22.5mm, E93 23.5mm)
Rear Upper Guide Rods
Rear Upper Links
Rear Lower Camber Link (will require M3 compatible rear shocks)
Rear Toe Arm (compatible only if using the M3 hubs and subframe, must get an aftermarket adjustable toe arm if not using M3 hubs)
Rear Subframe
Rear Subframe Bushings
Rear Axle Shafts
Rear LSD (DCT 3.15, 6MT 3.86)

The front subframe cannot be changed (1M also has a 135i front subframe). The prop shaft needs to be semi-custom fabricated as the rear joint is not compatible with the M3 LSD. The hubs can be swapped over, but you will then require a set of M3 compatible brakes as well.

It is possible to do everything that I've listed without getting the rear subframe, axleshafts, LSD and toe arms but the M3 subframe is better constructed being both lighter and stronger.

I've recently just done all of the above on my car with the exception of the subframe bushings (I went with solid aluminium bushings) so if you need any help with it all, please feel free to ask or check out my build thread.

I meant bits and pieces, not a complete swap over, ha. In other words, it's like taking Z32 or (300ZX) brakes and swapping them over with a 240SX...or an DC2 ITR 5-lug with a 4-lug DC2 GSR. I just wasn't aware that owners would choose factory M bits like links, rods and bushings and actually fit. I'm used to having to fab something up. Great info and nice to know those are some of the best options. Appreciate the info here guys. Refreshing for sure!

[IncrediBrian]

Any other track set-ups out there? Anyone heading to TWS in College Station at the end of Jan. '14?

[John_01]

Here is my setup I use for track. I use the stock differential (Non-LSD). It is quite comfortable using street tires.

Engine mods = N55 with BMW PPK2, ETS 5" Intercooler, ER charge pipe.
Transmission = DCT
Exhaust = Stock
Differential = Stock

SUSPENSION:
Koni Yellow front struts
Koni TCK single-adjustable rear dampers
BMW Performance "T3" springs with matching bump-stops (Front)
Swift 500lb 10" coilover springs (Rear)
Ground Control street camber plates
HPA Adjustable rear spring perches and thrust sheets
Powerflex polyurethane rear damper mounts
M3 E93 28mm front sway bar
Non-M E92 13mm rear sway bar
M3 rear subframe bushings
M3 front arms
M3 front tension struts
M3 rear upper arms
M3 rear upper guide rods
1M front strut brace

WHEELS:
Forgestar F14. Front 17x8.5" ET40, Rear 17x9.0 ET52.
TIRES:
Toyo R888 tires for Track only. Front 245/40/17, Rear 255/40/17.

ALIGNMENT:
Front camber = 3.0 degree
Front toe = zero
Rear camber = 2.1 degree
Rear toe = 1/8"

BRAKES:
Pads = Ferodo DS2500
Front shims = Hardbrakes 1mm titanium shims
Front rotors = EBC slot + dimples
Rear rotors = Stock
Fluid = Motul 600
Lines = Goodridge Phantom

[IncrediBrian]

Originally Posted by John_01

Here is my setup I use for track. I use the stock differential (Non-LSD). It is also very comfortable with street tires.

Engine mods = N55 with BMW PPK2
Transmission = DCT
Exhaust = Stock
Differential = Stock

SUSPENSION:
BMW Performance Springs and Dampers
M3 E93 28mm front sway bar
Non-M E92 13mm rear sway bar
Ground control street camber plates
M3 rear subframe bushings
M3 front arms
M3 front tension struts
M3 rear upper arms
M3 rear upper guide rods

WHEELS:
Sparco tarmac 17x8" ET45 rims.
TIRES:
Toyo R888 tires for Track only. Front 235/40/17, Rear 245/40/17.

ALIGNMENT:
Front camber = 3.0 degree
Front toe = zero
Rear camber = 1.9 degree
Rear toe = 1/8"

BRAKES:
Pads = Ferodo DS2500
Front rotors = EBC slot + dimples.
Rear rotors = Stock
Fluid = Motul 600
Lines = Stock (but will upgrade soon).

Nice, thanks for the alignment specs!

[1&done]

Originally Posted by John_01

Here is my setup I use for track. I use the stock differential (Non-LSD). It is also very comfortable with street tires.

Engine mods = N55 with BMW PPK2
Transmission = DCT
Exhaust = Stock
Differential = Stock

SUSPENSION:
BMW Performance Springs and Dampers
M3 E93 28mm front sway bar
Non-M E92 13mm rear sway bar
Ground control street camber plates
M3 rear subframe bushings
M3 front arms
M3 front tension struts
M3 rear upper arms
M3 rear upper guide rods

WHEELS:
Sparco tarmac 17x8" ET45 rims.
TIRES:
Toyo R888 tires for Track only. Front 235/40/17, Rear 245/40/17.

ALIGNMENT:
Front camber = 3.0 degree
Front toe = zero
Rear camber = 1.9 degree
Rear toe = 1/8"

BRAKES:
Pads = Ferodo DS2500
Front rotors = EBC slot + dimples.
Rear rotors = Stock
Fluid = Motul 600
Lines = Stock (but will upgrade soon).

Have you ever tried some "toe in" on the front. I've messed with corning balancing and alignments specs endlessly, still feels a little darty like it wants to turn a bit on the straights…I am just slightly toed in, might try going to 0, which was against what my shop says

Good luck to the OP.

[John_01]

Originally Posted by 1&done

Have you ever tried some "toe in" on the front. I've messed with corning balancing and alignments specs endlessly, still feels a little darty like it wants to turn a bit on the straights…I am just slightly toed in, might try going to 0, which was against what my shop says

Good luck to the OP.

Previously the car was setup with front Toe-out and I believe it contributed to a darty unstable feeling at high speed. I wouldn't expect that reducing toe-in will improve the stability in your case. My guess is that the unstable feeling may have happened if you have too thick rear sway bar or firm rear damper setting. For your high speed darty feeling / twitchiness, I would try to stiffen the rebound control on the front dampers, or otherwise soften the rear dampers. I am not very experienced in car tuning, but at least that is something you can try for free, assuming your coilovers allow the adjustment.

[wildcat767676]

Here is my track set up that allowed me to take first place last year in my class:

2008 n54 step

Exhaust: Agency Power DP's and mids, Remus muffler

Intake: Burger Tuning DCI

Tuning: Burger Tuning JB4 with methanol spray

Agency Power intercooler

Mishimoto Oil Cooler

Suspension: JIC Cross coil overs with camber plates, JIC Cross strut tower brace, M3 control arms, front sway bar, and subframe bushings.

Brakes: EBC Yellow pads, RB600 fluid, braided lines, EBC dimpled slotted rear rotors, BMW performance drilled fronts.

Wheels and tires: 17"x8.5" square setup with Yokohama R888 for track days.(I used Kuhmho Ecsta V710's for most of the season) the R888 seems so have longer lasting grip and more consistent.

Alignment: -3.1 front. -2.8 rear, zero toe up front.

Belts: Schroth quick connect harness.

CF Hood and rear lip spoiler.

Observations:

Brakes still aren't great. Going to try rebuilding calipers with steel pistons, EBC front rotors and maybe Hawk pads next change.

Car still doesn't handle as well as I'd like. Never heard of JIC Cross coil overs for 135i before I got them so going to research my spring rates and see if anything is out of whack. Also LSD for rear is on my list along with a second oil cooler. I still can't run a whole race without flirting with limp modes from heat.

Suggestions or comments welcome! Thanks guys.

[alex_d_22]

For cooling, I run a 70% water and 30% coolant with a bottle of water wetter and the BMS thermostat bypass. I don't have an aftermarket oil cooler and I haven't had any issues with limp mode yet (3 track events with multiple 20 minute sessions)… I am in Canada however, its probably not as hot as where some of you guys live… lol

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

I also have a 2011 135i M-sport with a 6SMT, that I take to the track.

To improve shift sloppiness, and help with heal and toe under load at the track:
Got great results with these popular DIY's: CDV delete, BMS clutchstop, M3 transmission mounts, Redline D4 transmission fluid.

To help with rear end wiggle: DIY'ed the M3 rear subframe bushings. Rear end now feals planted.

To help with understeer: Ground Control Street Camber Plates (getting slight rattle noise from them on the street), M3 Front Control Arms. During lapping season, I set my front up for max negative camber (-3.2* camber in the front, and max is -2.1* in the rear) , used slightly wider tires in front (225/40 RE-11). All of this did not completely eliminate understeering, and Im still getting some outside edge tire wear, even if I kept an eye on hot tire pressure at the track. Im aiming for square set up next season.

Brakes: Still not totally happy here. For cooling, I bent the stock shields for now, but looking at F20 brake shields like you did. I tried Titanium pad heat shields, but my CC pads did not handle the extra heat well, and not up to the task even without them. Will get track pads for next lapping season (Spring 2014).

Spring 2014 Update: Square 255/35R18 Extreme Perf Tires, Quaife LSD with 3.46 final drive, F20 cooling dust shields, Titanium brake pad heat shields, Carbotech XP10 brake pads, Dimple magnetic engine oil and transmission fluid drain plugs.

[IncrediBrian]

Originally Posted by wildcat767676

Here is my track set up that allowed me to take first place last year in my class:

2008 n54 step

Exhaust: Agency Power DP's and mids, Remus muffler

Intake: Burger Tuning DCI

Tuning: Burger Tuning JB4 with methanol spray

Agency Power intercooler

Mishimoto Oil Cooler

Suspension: JIC Cross coil overs with camber plates, JIC Cross strut tower brace, M3 control arms, front sway bar, and subframe bushings.

Brakes: EBC Yellow pads, RB600 fluid, braided lines, EBC dimpled slotted rear rotors, BMW performance drilled fronts.

Wheels and tires: 17"x8.5" square setup with Yokohama R888 for track days.(I used Kuhmho Ecsta V710's for most of the season) the R888 seems so have longer lasting grip and more consistent.

Alignment: -3.1 front. -2.8 rear, zero toe up front.

Belts: Schroth quick connect harness.

CF Hood and rear lip spoiler.

Observations:

Brakes still aren't great. Going to try rebuilding calipers with steel pistons, EBC front rotors and maybe Hawk pads next change.

Car still doesn't handle as well as I'd like. Never heard of JIC Cross coil overs for 135i before I got them so going to research my spring rates and see if anything is out of whack. Also LSD for rear is on my list along with a second oil cooler. I still can't run a whole race without flirting with limp modes from heat.

Suggestions or comments welcome! Thanks guys.

Nice man, ya I'm about to drop about $4k in a couple days and I am finalizing a list now. Great info!

[jafo1701]

Here's my setup with my 2011 135i. I have no oil Cooler but haven't had an issue with limp mode as of yet. I run 70/30 water to coolant with a bottle of water wetter. Although the hottest day I've run so far has only been in the high 80s. I'm an intermediate driver and the car runs and handles great. I'm still learning the car as last year was my first year with the 135i and the modifications progressed throughout the entire track season. My previous track car was an E36 M3.

n54 or n55: N55
Step/DCT/Man: DCT
Braking Mods: RB Caliper Rebuild kit, EBC slotted/dimpled w/Carbotech XP10s up front. In the rear stock rotors, RB rear caliper rebuild and Stoptech street performance pads
Drivetrain Mods: none
Electrical Mods: BMW PPK
Engine Mods: ETS FMIC, ETS Chargepipe
Exhaust Mods: Berk Sport Exhaust
Exterior Aero Mods: Kerscher front lip and BMW Carbon Fiber Spoiler...so no real Aero
Roll Cage/Harness Bar Mods: Schroth Quick fit Harnass
Suspension Mods: M3 Bolts ons front and rear w/M3 subframe bushings. M3 front sway bar. Swift springs and Koni Yellows. Dinan Camber plates and rear shock mounts.
Camber: Front -2.5 w/.05 toe out each side
Rear -2.5 w/.12 toe in each side
Tires (specs): Hankook RS3s
Wheels (specs): Apex Arc-8s

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by jafo1701

Here's my setup with my 2011 135i. I have no oil Cooler but haven't had an issue with limp mode as of yet. I run 70/30 water to coolant with a bottle of water wetter. Although the hottest day I've run so far has only been in the high 80s. I'm an intermediate driver and the car runs and handles great. I'm still learning the car as last year was my first year with the 135i and the modifications progressed throughout the entire track season. My previous track car was an E36 M3.

n54 or n55: N55
Step/DCT/Man: DCT
Braking Mods: RB Caliper Rebuild kit, EBC slotted/dimpled w/Carbotech XP10s up front. In the rear stock rotors, RB rear caliper rebuild and Stoptech street performance pads
Drivetrain Mods: none
Electrical Mods: BMW PPK
Engine Mods: ETS FMIC, ETS Chargepipe
Exhaust Mods: Berk Sport Exhaust
Exterior Aero Mods: Kerscher front lip and BMW Carbon Fiber Spoiler...so no real Aero
Roll Cage/Harness Bar Mods: Schroth Quick fit Harnass
Suspension Mods: M3 Bolts ons front and rear w/M3 subframe bushings. M3 front sway bar. Swift springs and Koni Yellows. Dinan Camber plates and rear shock mounts.
Camber: Front -2.5 w/.05 toe out each side
Rear -2.5 w/.12 toe in each side
Tires (specs): Hankook RS3s
Wheels (specs): Apex Arc-8s

Nice, got any pics?

[jafo1701]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

Nice, got any pics?

Here's one before the Splitter install which was done recently. The Slotted/dimpled rotors are only installed before a track weekend so they are only specifically used with my track pads. I just have the stock rotors on their for street/autocross use.

[IncrediBrian]

Originally Posted by jafo1701

Here's one before the Splitter install which was done recently. The Slotted/dimpled rotors are only installed before a track weekend so they are only specifically used with my track pads. I just have the stock rotors on their for street/autocross use.

Good looking setup and 1!

[IncrediBrian]

Originally Posted by jafo1701

Suspension Mods: M3 Bolts ons front and rear w/M3 subframe bushings. M3 front sway bar. Swift springs and Koni Yellows.

What all M3 bolt ons in the front and rear did you go with, just curious?

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by wildcat767676

Here is my track set up that allowed me to take first place last year in my class:

2008 n54 step

Exhaust: Agency Power DP's and mids, Remus muffler

Intake: Burger Tuning DCI

Tuning: Burger Tuning JB4 with methanol spray

Agency Power intercooler

Mishimoto Oil Cooler

Suspension: JIC Cross coil overs with camber plates, JIC Cross strut tower brace, M3 control arms, front sway bar, and subframe bushings.

Brakes: EBC Yellow pads, RB600 fluid, braided lines, EBC dimpled slotted rear rotors, BMW performance drilled fronts.

Wheels and tires: 17"x8.5" square setup with Yokohama R888 for track days.(I used Kuhmho Ecsta V710's for most of the season) the R888 seems so have longer lasting grip and more consistent.

Alignment: -3.1 front. -2.8 rear, zero toe up front.

Belts: Schroth quick connect harness.

CF Hood and rear lip spoiler.

Observations:

Brakes still aren't great. Going to try rebuilding calipers with steel pistons, EBC front rotors and maybe Hawk pads next change.

Car still doesn't handle as well as I'd like. Never heard of JIC Cross coil overs for 135i before I got them so going to research my spring rates and see if anything is out of whack. Also LSD for rear is on my list along with a second oil cooler. I still can't run a whole race without flirting with limp modes from heat.

Suggestions or comments welcome! Thanks guys.

I think your rear camber at -2.8 is way too much. That maybe the reason your car doesnt handle well.
Mine is -3.2 F, -2 R. Staggert set up.

[jafo1701]

Originally Posted by IncrediBrian

What all M3 bolt ons in the front and rear did you go with, just curious?

Front Control arms, sway bar. For the rear ,the Rear upper and lower M3 guide rod kits. All these with the M3 subframe bushings make it a very capable car on the track.

[Ginger_Extract]

Originally Posted by jafo1701

Braking Mods: RB Caliper Rebuild kit, EBC slotted/dimpled w/Carbotech XP10s up front. In the rear stock rotors, RB rear caliper rebuild and Stoptech street performance pads

How do you feel about the RB rebuild kit? RB is local (20 minutes away) to me, and my front calipers are fried. After reading everything I can get my hands on, it seems like a solid fit for our cars. I will be contacting Warren and Co. over at RB in regards to bringing my car in for the caliper rebuild.