Applying Blackfire Wet Diamond

[b33g33]

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Hey Guys,

This is pretty much a newb question.

I haven't done a lot of cleaning/detailing work on my cars but am starting to get into it.

Since the PCD applied wax on the car is starting to go off a bit, I'm planning to apply a coat of the Balckfire Wet Diamond to the car this coming weekend.

I've read the reviews/guides and watched a couple of videos and am pretty sure I can do the work.

The question I have is specifically around the best way to use the buffer on the 1M. I've seen a few posts about how fragile the paintwork seems to be. I don't want to accidentally buff out some paint!

Anyway, if anyone has tips/tricks to applying the product and making sure I don't mess something up, I'd appreciate your input.

I'm planning to purchase the Porter Cable 7424XP buffer



TIA

[HeyMoe53]

Wet Diamond is pretty easy to use. In fact, even though I own a PC, I apply it by hand with a foam applicator. I go with thin coats (less is more here). Apply a thin coat to a couple of square foot area, and go back right away and wipe off with a good microfiber towel.

Though the directions say to let it dry to a haze before wiping off, I've had good luck with "wipe on, wipe off."

Do be sure to make it a thin coat. I like to do a couple of thin coats, allowing a day in between. I can do a coat by hand on my 128 in less than 90 minutes.

You could use a PC, just apply at a low speed (two would work). You will find that you'll still apply the curvy spots by hand.

It wouldn't hurt to clay it before applying the WD.

[Papethova]

Ive never used Black Diamond but dont worry too much with the porter.

Personally Id apply it by hand but if you want to use the PC just set work in small 2ftX2ft sections. Spread the product with the PC off then turn it on and work your way horizontally back and forth then go back vertically on the section. Id look into getting a velcro backing plate and a buffing pad/disc that attaches to it. They now have microfiber ones.

Ive never taken paint off, not even the fragile VO

[Amnizu]

Originally Posted by b33g33

Hey Guys,

This is pretty much a newb question.

I haven't done a lot of cleaning/detailing work on my cars but am starting to get into it.

Since the PCD applied wax on the car is starting to go off a bit, I'm planning to apply a coat of the Balckfire Wet Diamond to the car this coming weekend.

I've read the reviews/guides and watched a couple of videos and am pretty sure I can do the work.

The question I have is specifically around the best way to use the buffer on the 1M. I've seen a few posts about how fragile the paintwork seems to be. I don't want to accidentally buff out some paint!




I'm planning to purchase the Porter Cable 7424XP buffer



TIA

A couple things on this. You're not going to mess anything up with a sealant like black fire on a very light foam pad like a Red or Black Lake country CCS pad.

On a secondary note, you'll want to be sure you get all of the old wax off the car first, typically this is done with a heavy detergent wash and a clay bar

If you haven't purchased the PC 7424 I highly recommend that you look into the Griots Polisher or the Flex 3401. I swear by my flex.

Finally, if you do choose to polish the paint, I highly recommend Menzerna products.

As far as the paint, the ceramic BMW clear coat is very hard, you'll have a difficult time damaging it with your Porter Cable on top speed on the metal panels.

Edit: Tips and tricks: Get a 4" backing plate for your PC and use that for the bumper covers, A-Pillar and lower variances. I recommend a nice carnuba wax over a sealant this time of year. Regardless of what you choose when applying it put it on VERY thin. More != better when it comes to the sealant / wax stage.

[IZAGLO]

Light frequent coats work the best IMO WITHOUT a orbital buffer. Never had the need for one of those in 30 years of driving and detailing my cars but i have seen MANY cars that look like shit after the detailer put to many paint swirls on the car with the orbital sanders. Beautiful cars like woman need the hands on aproach for best un-blemished results unless the detailer has the orbital sander down...but then again the 1 series is so small a car the excersise is good for you and your car..Use your hands! and a good liquid wax from Mothers or Maguires works great.

[Vrumpkin]

Applying with a dual action machine IS the best way to get thin even coats of BFWD or any liquid sealant for that matter. It also saves you a ton of time and you wont feel like your arm is going to fall off when done, which is exactly what will happen if you apply it by hand. Multiple coats by hand = good luck

Find a finishing pad rated above 80ppi (pores per inch) and apply the product between speed 3.5 or 4. Best pads for this are the black finishing foam pads from detailersdomain (forum sponsor)

People trying to apply sealants at speed 1 pr 2 on a porter cable will get poor results because the stroke of the machine is too long and you'll get a choppy breakdown of the product. The faster the speed the tighter the orbits become and the more even breakdown you will get.

You need to look for a thin "ribboning" effect of product on the paint. Wait 30 minutes for the first coat to cure then buff off with a THIN short nap microfiber towel. Don't use any of the monster fluffly ones because they get grabby and leave streaks.

Wait a few hours and apply a second coat which should be good to buff off after about 20minutes.

When your all done take some ice cold bottled water and put a sprayer top on it and do a light wipedown of the finish just like you would with quick detail spray. The distilled or bottled water helps dissipate any oils left over and removes even fine streaks so you end up with a smear free deep gloss.

Go get em'

[Red Bread]

Funny, my experience is exactly the opposite, I can use a fraction of the product by hand than with a PC. I love my PC for light polishing and glazes, but never use it for LSP's as it wastes product and isn't any quicker.

[Vrumpkin]

Originally Posted by IZAGLO

Light frequent coats work the best IMO WITHOUT a orbital buffer. Never had the need for one of those in 30 years of driving and detailing my cars but i have seen MANY cars that look like shit after the detailer put to many paint swirls on the car with the orbital sanders. Beautiful cars like woman need the hands on aproach for best un-blemished results unless the detailer has the orbital sander down...but then again the 1 series is so small a car the excersise is good for you and your car..Use your hands! and a good liquid wax from Mothers or Maguires works great.

FWIW the damage you see from cars polished or waxed by machine comes not from the machine but from the inexperienced detailer or body shop guy who's doing it. Just like bad paint jobs are not caused by spray guns but rather the unskilled painter who uses it.

With todays modern clear coats, and that found on the 1M which is very hard you cannot come close to getting proper results with polishing if done by hand. Applying a wax or sealant by hand is totally fine it just isn't the most efficient way to do it and its tough to really burnish a product into the paint by hand. I get better gloss and clarity out of waxes and sealants applied by machine than I do by hand and I do this every day on all types of cars. Keeping steady hand movement with the exact pressure panel to panel is impossible.

Heres my VO in the sun after I machine polished it... no wax or sealant and the polishes I use contain zero silicone or glaze fillers. No buffer trails or holograms at all if done properly:

[Amnizu]

Originally Posted by IZAGLO

Light frequent coats work the best IMO WITHOUT a orbital buffer. Never had the need for one of those in 30 years of driving and detailing my cars but i have seen MANY cars that look like shit after the detailer put to many paint swirls on the car with the orbital sanders. Beautiful cars like woman need the hands on aproach for best un-blemished results unless the detailer has the orbital sander down...but then again the 1 series is so small a car the excersise is good for you and your car..Use your hands! and a good liquid wax from Mothers or Maguires works great.

Okay, couple things. Good detailers do not use orbital sanders. They'll use either a Dual action random orbital or they'll use a high quality rotary machine with a multi speed mode and a wool pad to remove deep imperfections.

As far as hand polishing everything, I'm not going to say its impossible. However, you better have a whole lot of time and patience.

[ESC OFF]

Originally Posted by Amnizu

Okay, couple things. Good detailers do not use orbital sanders. They'll use either a Dual action random orbital or they'll use a high quality rotary machine with a multi speed mode and a wool pad to remove deep imperfections........

+1

[HeyMoe53]

I haven't polished by hand for 12 years, which is the age of my Porter Cable.

If it were to conk out, I'd look hard at a Flex.

SD Detail--I'm curious as to which polish(es) you use, if you don't mind my asking. I've been using Meguiar's M205, followed by Menzerna PO85RD. I've never had the need to be more aggressive than the 205, though I do have a few on hand.

Nice shot of the Valencia Orange! I can only imagine what the whole car looks like!

[Adam135]

I apply BFWD by hand, works just fine.

[IZAGLO]

Maybe i am old school...but starting with my 1st semi-nice car at the time a Z in 1974 i have used 100% Carnuba liquid wax when available...even to the 135i as well. Also am using Carnuba/syth blend at times...The paint on my car at 22,000 miles feels amazing with no discoloration and looks new..never used anything but my hands....i am a ethnic percussionist with strong hands and arms from playing hand drums for 30 years so waxing a car with a good liquid goes very fast and the excercise is good for me...i will never use anything but my hands on any car i buy.....when i get to old my son will wax it for me....Now paste waxes are a different animal...they are hard to remove and i stopped using them years ago.

[b33g33]

Thanks for all the responses guys.

The more I read up on this, the more I worry I may be in over my head!

I think I'll do my B5 A4 first and see how it goes!

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by b33g33

Thanks for all the responses guys.

The more I read up on this, the more I worry I may be in over my head!

I think I'll do my B5 A4 first and see how it goes!

I apply it by hand and I suck! Lol..... You won't believe how easy it is to.get bugs off once applied. I love it. I only have one coat right now but my goal is at least three.

[b33g33]

Originally Posted by HeyMoe53

I haven't polished by hand for 12 years, which is the age of my Porter Cable.

If it were to conk out, I'd look hard at a Flex.

SD Detail--I'm curious as to which polish(es) you use, if you don't mind my asking. I've been using Meguiar's M205, followed by Menzerna PO85RD. I've never had the need to be more aggressive than the 205, though I do have a few on hand.

Nice shot of the Valencia Orange! I can only imagine what the whole car looks like!

What advantages do you see in the Flex over the Porter Cable? I like to buy the best product I can afford because they tend to last longer and give better service. I'm just curious if the Flex is 2x as good as the PC because it seems to be more than twice as expensive.

[Powerbeast]

Wow I don't think I have ever seen a cleaner car than paps

[Amnizu]

Originally Posted by b33g33

What advantages do you see in the Flex over the Porter Cable? I like to buy the best product I can afford because they tend to last longer and give better service. I'm just curious if the Flex is 2x as good as the PC because it seems to be more than twice as expensive.

Simply put yes. There are a couple distinct differences between the Flex and the PC, Meg polisher and Griotts.

The first is the Flex is a forced DA meaning regardless of the angle, pressure or speed set on the polisher the dual action will always happen. Whereas on the other product this is not the case, if you get the angle wrong or put too much pressure it turns into a rotary.

Secondly, the flex spins a higher RPM, Ie has a more powerful engine. This means you can often remove more imperfections in 1 or 2 passes where it may take 3 or 4 with the others. This can drastically shorten the amount of time you have to polish.

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

I apply it by hand and I suck! Lol..... You won't believe how easy it is to.get bugs off once applied. I love it. I only have one coat right now but my goal is at least three.

Try a claybar or a product like Tarminator to remove the bugs prior to applying BM.

[1SerieStud]

No need for a porter cable to apply BFWD. This is my product of choice and it's supposed to be applied thin, which allows it to be removed extremely easy. I recommend by hand, but porter cable is the buffer of choice for most beginners, considering it's an orbital buffer and not a rotational buffer - which could burn through the clear coat/paint if the user does not know what he's doing.

My advice, stick to the "by hand" method for BFWD.

[Amnizu]

Please head over to detailing world and read through the basic detailing introduction resources. In short, in the vast majority of time it is easier and better to do anything detail related with the proper tools. Meaning, its way easier and faster to lay down a uniformly thin layer of sealant with a DA buffer than by hand.

Here is a great introduction guide to how to use a DA polisher, detailing world has a ton of info on it.

[Chill]

I don't know much about detailing that is for sure but do we really need to be using these high powered buffers on our brand new cars? I hand applied a coat of wax early on and now just 2 bucket wash and use the liquid spray wax/dry stuff that seems to work pretty good. I thought those buffers were for restoring a finish that was oxidized and hammered from time. I don't know, maybe I should try using one and see how it goes.

[Amnizu]

Originally Posted by Chill

I don't know much about detailing that is for sure but do we really need to be using these high powered buffers on our brand new cars? I hand applied a coat of wax early on and now just 2 bucket wash and use the liquid spray wax/dry stuff that seems to work pretty good. I thought those buffers were for restoring a finish that was oxidized and hammered from time. I don't know, maybe I should try using one and see how it goes.

This actually couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, most cars live a tough life as they are shipped from their point of manufacturer to their final destination. Also, if your car was ever washed by an automated machine or prepped by "detailing department" at a dealer chances are significant micro marring has been introduced into your clear coat already.

Not to mention rail dust and other contaminates that get baked onto the clear coat as the car was shipped.

The general goal of detailing and maintenance is to keep the car looking as new as possible. You do this by putting in more effort EARLY that keeps the ongoing maintenance easier so you never have to go to through a full restore of horribly oxidized paint.