CPO nightmare, having problems with BMW of Mt. Laurel NJ

[feeshta]

Hello all. So, back in March I purchased a CPO 2012 135i with 42K on the clock up at BMW of Mount Laurel in New Jersey. I was extremely happy to be back in a 135i, and to have found a car optioned like I wanted, but the excitement was quickly dampened by a few minor issues. I noticed a weird clunk or feeling of something shifting in the car shortly after taking delivery. I asked about it here in this thread. http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1109171 I then took the car the my local BMW dealership, BMW of Bel Air to report the problem, as well as a non functional USB port. They took a look and reported that they could not replicate the problems. They told me to keep an eye on it, and if I could bring the car in when it was doing it they would take another look. They assured me that since I was reporting it now, it would be covered later if it happened to not be found until after 50K miles, which is when the BMW CPO bumper to bumper warranty expires.

So I kept an eye on it, and it only seems to be a problem on long drives of an hour or more which would imply that it is heat related. In the mean time, I thought that maybe it was related to the poorly designed rear subframe bushings on the car, so I decided to go forward with starting a suspension overhaul on the car and ordered the M3 rear subframe bushings and control arms. I'm now realizing that was a mistake.

On the 18th of April, before any of the parts arrived, I take the car to a local car wash to clean off some of the dirt. As I go through, I suddenly get warning lights for the headlights. One for the adaptive lighting system, and one for a bulb being out. I initially thought it might be some problem with the car wash, so I reported it to them and they asked that I take the car to the dealership for evaluation. I immediately scheduled an appointment for the following week.

When the time comes for that appointment, BMW of Bel Air does not have an available loaner car, and since I can't take time off work and didn't want to ask a friend to drive that far to pick me up, I reschedule the appointment. The next time they still don't have a loaner available, so I have to reschedule again. The final appointment is made for a week out on April 30th, when they can guarantee there will be a loaner available.

In the mean time my parts have arrived, and stupidly thinking that control arms have nothing to do with headlights, I installed the control arm set on the 24th as I had the day off and wanted to be productive. The install went smoothly, and the car was aligned the following morning. I am very happy with the results, and have no idea why the 135i was not delivered this way to begin with.

Finally the 30th comes and they get me a loaner. BMW of Bel Air looks at the headlights and say that the car has been front ended in the past. Both headlights have broken mounting tabs, and the passenger side light has a cracked housing that allowed water ingress. They also noted a damaged passenger side engine mount, and evidence of past paintwork on the front and passenger sides of the car.

So now the ball is in BMW of Mount Laurel's court. They send a driver down with a loaner and take my car in for an inspection. After 2 days, they finally get back to me and their pre-owned manager claims that there is no way in hell the car passed their CPO inspection with those faults, and accuse me of having wrecked the car and fraudulently trying to get them to pay for the damages. They also claim that the M3 control arms void my warranty, and could have been responsible for breaking the headlights, and that there is no evidence of paint work or damaged motor mount. They ask that I immediately return their loaner car, and when I suggest they should come and get it, they respond that they will send the State Police to come get it if I don't immediately return it. At that point, I completely lost my temper, told the gentleman that he was full of Shit, and the call was mutually ended.

After cooling down and talking to a friend who used to work for BMW, I called them back and asked to speak with the general manager. I was informed that he was off work, and would not be back till Monday, but was connected with another manager who was much more pleasant, and he connected me to the Service Manager. The service manager claims he can't find anything wrong with the engine mounts, but vows to try to track down the source of my problem after it becomes clear that it was reported very shortly after I took ownership of the car. He says he will call back on Monday to let me know what he finds. I finally called him back today at 4:30 and he states he had one of his guys drive the car and cannot find the problem so far, but will try again tomorrow. He also lets slip that the previous owner of the car works at the dealership, and that the gentleman claims to have never damaged the car.

So, I'm stuck here waiting to hear what they will decide to do. So far it seems that they are intent on denying responsibility for the damage to the car. I have documented everything from my end, and have witnesses lined up if needed. I also reported it to BMW of North America, but they asked that I allow the process to play out completely before getting them involved.


I'm really unhappy right now, and afraid that I am going to come out of this on the short end. Anyone have any advice on how to proceed?

[The Wind Breezes]

I don't even know where to start with this. First they sell you a car that has been incompetently CPOd and then try to stick you with all the blame. I really doubt you're the only one who this dealer has taken advantage of. You need to keep going up the food chain with your problem, and be very firm on your position that you have done nothing wrong, and that nothing you have done to the car is responsible for things breaking. It is obviously the dealer's fault the car is the way it is and you should insist on this, going back to the bungled CPO. That is grounds for legal action not only from you but probably from BMW corporate as well if they find out. The idea that the M3 control arms broke your headlights is so absurd it's almost comical. I wouldn't threaten a lawsuit, but would be prepared to hire a lawyer if nothing else works out.

[mahlerbeatdown]

crazy...

I can tell you that both my headlight top mounting tabs are broken and i've never had a single front end bump. I've seen another similar thread with similar results. Good luck w the ordeal

[feeshta]

So the Service manager called me again this morning. He's been reasonable to deal with, but at this point they are saying that they will only cover one of the two lights and they are still saying that there is no broken motor mount or evidence of paintwork on the front of the car. He says that the reason they will only cover one of the lights is that these light housings have a tendency to break from simple things like potholes, and that this is a known problem with these cars and as a result they are inspected thoroughly during a CPO inspection. My response to that is, if that's the case, shouldn't it be covered under the "bumper to bumper" warranty? He states that BMW considers the light assemblies to be a part of the suspension system(TF?), and damage to the lights from a pothole is considered abuse and falls under the same category as a dented rim from a pothole strike. He said that the problem is so well known on 3 series that BMW actually makes a repair kit for it, but although the 1 series shares the same issue, there is no repair kit due to the lower volume of cars on the road. That sounds like the biggest load of horse manure I have ever heard, especially when a replacement light costs $2600!!!!! Hitting a pothole is a standard durability test that all vehicles on the road today should be able to sustain repeatedly, and passing a failure to meet that standard on to the customer is entirely unacceptable and possibly fraudulent. If there is such a problem with the headlights on these cars, BMW needs to at minimum repair the problems, and really should be forced into a redesign and recall.

[Solo_M_Tech]

Sounds like a shady dealership trying to deny responsibility.

[dtla1]

Originally Posted by feeshta

Hitting a pothole is a standard durability test that all vehicles on the road today should be able to sustain repeatedly, and passing a failure to meet that standard on to the customer is entirely unacceptable and possibly fraudulent. If there is such a problem with the headlights on these cars, BMW needs to at minimum repair the problems, and really should be forced into a redesign and recall.

This sounds like you have a class action lawsuit ready to go. I would be right there with you if I start to have these issue also, although I haven't had to deal with this yet.

[KNS]

If BMW wants to sell cars in the US then they need to build them to withstand the typical wear and tear found in the majority of pot-holed cities and not shift the blame to its consumers - that's horse $hit. The roads here in the US have been terrible for decades and BMW is well aware of it.

[feeshta]

Originally Posted by dtla1

This sounds like you have a class action lawsuit ready to go. I would be right there with you if I start to have these issue also, although I haven't had to deal with this yet.

Yes, I would agree. I'd much rather not be forced to go that direction of course, but it does seem like the kind of situation where resolution could possibly be gained through legal action.

[feeshta]

Originally Posted by KNS

If BMW wants to sell cars in the US then they need to build them to withstand the typical wear and tear found in the majority of pot-holed cities and not shift the blame to its consumers - that's horse $hit. The roads here in the US have been terrible for decades and BMW is well aware of it.

Yeah, and this BMW dealership is at the epicenter of pothole central being in a Jersey suburb of Philadelphia. If anyone would be seeing a lot of these failures, it would be them.

The problem from my perspective is that that says nothing of the paintwork done to the front of the car, or the damaged engine mount. If it were a simple matter of the headlights being damaged, I might be able to believe what they are saying, but it's not.

[135TX]

At a minimum I'd try one other dealer as maybe you can just cruise through and have the issue taken care of..It may just be best to try a few dealers and see if one bites, if BMWNA covers warranty work id assume they would cover the issue. I'm hoping for you. The audacity of this low life action of trying to put the blame on the consumer when clearly there is a warranty that is in place makes me sick. Unfortunately though it sounds like a lawyer may need to intervene to straighten things out.
Try to weigh out the costs of both options (repair and legal recourse), unless you know a lawyer it could get costly very quickly, like $500/Hr

[ShocknAwe]

I have hit a TON of potholes, really really hard. No broken headlight brackets/tabs here. Just bent wheels.
They're just trying to get you to assume liability for half the payment so they can neg you on the rest, then leave you dry for any legal action.

Try another dealer then call BMWNA. As it is, that dealer isn't going to be happy about being forced to do the repair.

[SGM82]

As far as the headlights go, this is common on the E90 also. BMW makes an inexpensive kit to replace broken headlight tabs for both cars. I would have the dealer replace the more heavily damaged light and use the tab repair for the other. Do a search to bring up thread with part numbers etc. In my experience, some dealers have not used these kits before, and may not be aware of their existence.

[feeshta]

Originally Posted by 135TX

At a minimum I'd try one other dealer as maybe you can just cruise through and have the issue taken care of..It may just be best to try a few dealers and see if one bites, if BMWNA covers warranty work id assume they would cover the issue. I'm hoping for you. The audacity of this low life action of trying to put the blame on the consumer when clearly there is a warranty that is in place makes me sick. Unfortunately though it sounds like a lawyer may need to intervene to straighten things out.
Try to weigh out the costs of both options (repair and legal recourse), unless you know a lawyer it could get costly very quickly, like $500/Hr

I'm still hopefull that I can get adequate resolution from the selling dealership, but I will not hesitate to go the legal route if needed. The thing that worries me abuot going the legal route is that I don't want to pay the repair costs out of pocket and wait for compensation later, and I also don't want drive a car with one headlight for an extended period, for multiple reasons. Accepting the repair of one headlight would leave me with no legal recourse as I understand it, which is obviously a problem.

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

I have hit a TON of potholes, really really hard. No broken headlight brackets/tabs here. Just bent wheels.
They're just trying to get you to assume liability for half the payment so they can neg you on the rest, then leave you dry for any legal action.

Try another dealer then call BMWNA. As it is, that dealer isn't going to be happy about being forced to do the repair.

It's already been to 2 dealerships, both of which say it is damage rather than failure and therefore not eligible for repair under warranty. I'm guessing others would have a similar reaction, but if I get the car back unrepaired from BMW of Mount Laurel, I might try that route.

Originally Posted by SGM82

As far as the headlights go, this is common on the E90 also. BMW makes an inexpensive kit to replace broken headlight tabs for both cars. I would have the dealer replace the more heavily damaged light and use the tab repair for the other. Do a search to bring up thread with part numbers etc. In my experience, some dealers have not used these kits before, and may not be aware of their existence.

The service manager was aware of the kit for the E90's, but claimed that BMW does not make one for the E82. If you happen to know a part #, that could be very useful for repair of the left headlight. The right side is apparently broken badly enough that the housing leaks, so that probably would not help.

[SGM82]

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1010620

[feeshta]

Originally Posted by SGM82

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1010620

Thank you Sir, much appreciated.

[feeshta]

Anyone happen to know what CPO inspection standards say about brake rotors? I know they just barely passed the required thickness standards, but they are also rather heavily scored. It seems highly unlikely that they would meet standards to me.

[BrokenVert]

OP there is a repair kit for the 1 series headlights. I bought it and fixed mine 6 months ago.

Your dealer is full of shit on multiple issues

[zx10guy]

Sent you a PM.

[inFamousKicks]

Wow, that is a nightmare. Hope everything works out.

[cbl117]

I'm I following correctly: first the dealership says the car has been front ended, then they go on to say later that there is no evidence of the car being front ended?

[feeshta]

Originally Posted by cbl117

I'm I following correctly: first the dealership says the car has been front ended, then they go on to say later that there is no evidence of the car being front ended?

It's a little complicated due to the fact that there are 2 dealerships involved and one of them is at minimum making incorrect assertions. I bought the car at BMW of Mount Laurel, but I live closer to BMW of Bel Air so I normally have my service done there. When I had the problem with the light, I took it to Bel Air and they told me that the car had been in a front end collision which caused the damage, and listed the other two items as evidence of that assertion. It's looking like they were either mistaken, or possibly lied about it at this point though.

After talking repeatedly with the Service Manager at BMW of Mount Laurel, he assures me that the car was not front ended, and that the engine mounts are normal, and that he can prove both points to me when I come pick up the car by showing me himself with a paint depth gauge and having the car on the lift to show me the engine mounts. I'm confused how BMW of Bel Air could have been incorrect on those two assertions, but the truth is the truth, and I tend to believe the Service manager at BMW of Mount Laurel in this case. He believes that they mistook a threaded hole in the engine mount that exists for the mounting of a tool for a missing bolt. Some other BMW models, namely the newer 5 series, apparently have an issue with the bolts shearing off, and the design is similar enough that the tech mistook the empty hole for damage. The theory is that they then were convinced the car had been front ended when combined with the broken light tabs, and mistakenly viewed possible road grime as evidence of paint work which slotted with their working theory. In other words, he thinks they went on a bit of a wild goose chase.

BMW of Mount Laurel are going to replace the right side light free of charge at this point, but they are not willing to replace the entire left side light assembly over two broken tabs when they cannot get BMW warranty coverage for it to compensate them for the cost and there is no effect on the functionality of the light. They are going to try epoxying the tabs back on, just to give it the best stability that they can. They have not been able to reproduce the condition with the seight shifting, which does not surprise me, but they asked that I keep them advised if it does get worse and assured me that it will be covered under warranty if they can find what is causing it.

So, at this point if all goes well, it looks like I will be able to pick up my car on Friday, and they will show me that everything is as they asserted. All I wanted when I took the car in for service was for the light to be fixed, so I really can't complain too much, and if all goes well I will change the title of this thread to reflect that the problem has been rectified.

In hindsight it is no wonder that the Pre-Owned manager and I butted heads so badly, as I had apparently been given bad info by my local dealership. He still was not listening very well, but I can understand why he thought I was lying to him.

[ShocknAwe]

What about the cracked passenger headlight?