Stats: 1M vs Competitors (Cayman S and TT RS)

[bobbyd1961]

Originally Posted by as7920

Taken from BMW UK:

http://bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/index/0,,1156...bmwuk,00.html#

Prices:
1M = 46,000
TT RS = 65,000
Cayman R = 66,000

i hope they got that turbo fuel pump issue resolved

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ErvGotti

I'd have to say for most driver's they would have a harder time driving the Cayman S compared to the M3 or 1M. The dynamics of driving a rear heavy car is drastically different than say a car with 50/50 or even a front heavy car 54/46. The Cayman S is 45/55.

The reason M3 get such high praises is because model after model it makes novice driver's look "exceptional" because it's easier to push the car to it's limits due to it's "exceptional" balance.

Though that's what performance driving schools are for. Most people that purchase these cars would just go out and think "Oh it's the best handeling car according to...." and end up looking like a fool or wrecking.

The Cayman is mid engined not rear engined and by all accounts one of the most well behaved cars at the limit on the planet. I highly doubt it is harder to drive than the M3.

[330CIZHP]

BMW can put all the glossy marketing they want and it only shows lack of confidence and desperation on their part.

At the end of the day, real world results speak for themselves and Cayman S is hands down the best car out of the three. I am sure some real world comparo will put 1-M in its place.

Cayman S >>>>>>>>>> TT RS and 1-M

[Alext]

They got their highlighting wrong Cayman S has the best power to weight ratio - the lower the number the better! (eg if a car weighed 1000kg and had 1000hp that is a 1kg/hp ratio).

[jmunro]

The 350Z is definitely not the same car as the 370Z...

[crackberry]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

BMW can put all the glossy marketing they want and it only shows lack of confidence and desperation on their part.

At the end of the day, real world results speak for themselves and Cayman S is hands down the best car out of the three. I am sure some real world comparo will put 1-M in its place.

Cayman S >>>>>>>>>> TT RS and 1-M

+1

i also think that many people will compare it to its m3 counterpart and be disappointed.

Originally Posted by ErvGotti

The reason M3 get such high praises is because model after model it makes novice driver's look "exceptional" because it's easier to push the car to it's limits due to it's "exceptional" balance.

true, but the cayman handles even better than the m3, which is why the cs gets so much deserved praise too.

[ArabianSensation]

I'd like to see a 1M vs. E46 M3 comparison.

Honestly... I'd rather have an E46 M3. Naturally aspirated, high revving S54... and it's just as fast as the 1M (at least by these specs)

[chris719]

This should be faster in reality in a straight line. I remember correctly E46 M3 did 8:22 on the ring so this is quite a bit better, and I like the compact dimensions of the 1.

I still think this would be a cooler car with the S54 though.

[vexx786]

Originally Posted by jmunro

The 350Z is definitely not the same car as the 370Z...

+1

you can't really compare the two

I know for a fact that the standard 370z can beat a 135i, I'm curious to see how it and its nismo counter-part stack up against the 1M. It's definitely cheaper than 1M.

[ErvGotti]

Originally Posted by chris719

The Cayman is mid engined not rear engined and by all accounts one of the most well behaved cars at the limit on the planet. I highly doubt it is harder to drive than the M3.

Still has a 45 front to 55 rear 45/55 weight distro. I'm not saying that the M3 has better handeling, I'm saying that all these review's are from pro drivers that do this for a living.

Just like when they compared the 5.0 GT to the M3 yeah this pro driver who drove both cars got the GT to within a second of the M3, but how many casual or slightly trained road drivers would be able to do it.

I'm just giving praise as to how well balanced most M cars are. Are they greatest handeling machines? No. The fastest straight line? No. The reason the 50/50 balance is greatly desired is that it makes the car well balanced, forgiving, and easy to push to it's limits. Now can porsche make a 45/55 car out handel a 50/50 car? Yes. Just like ford made a front heavy live rear axel 5.0 Laguna seca Boss 54/46 weight distro out handel the M3 at that track.

Which brings me to another point. The nurburgring track is not the end all be all. Just cause a car can out run one there doesn't mean it will beat it on say laguna seca or mid ohio.

[techthentic]

Originally Posted by vexx786

+1

you can't really compare the two

I know for a fact that the standard 370z can beat a 135i, I'm curious to see how it and its nismo counter-part stack up against the 1M. It's definitely cheaper than 1M.

I've got a 370z and a 335i, 370z isn't that much better, if it beats it, it's marginally better. But the nismo 370z and 1M should be a interesting match up

[Robert]

Originally Posted by ErvGotti

Still has a 45 front to 55 rear 45/55 weight distro. I'm not saying that the M3 has better handeling, I'm saying that all these review's are from pro drivers that do this for a living.

Just like when they compared the 5.0 GT to the M3 yeah this pro driver who drove both cars got the GT to within a second of the M3, but how many casual or slightly trained road drivers would be able to do it.

I'm just giving praise as to how well balanced most M cars are. Are they greatest handeling machines? No. The fastest straight line? No. The reason the 50/50 balance is greatly desired is that it makes the car well balanced, forgiving, and easy to push to it's limits. Now can porsche make a 45/55 car out handel a 50/50 car? Yes. Just like ford made a front heavy live rear axel 5.0 Laguna seca Boss 54/46 weight distro out handel the M3 at that track.

Which brings me to another point. The nurburgring track is not the end all be all. Just cause a car can out run one there doesn't mean it will beat it on say laguna seca or mid ohio.

Extending on your point, Cayman/Cayman S is currently the best balanced car out of the cars you mentioned above. Really, it is a surgeon's scalpel. The weight balance figure does not tell the whole story of balance and driving is believing. M cars are on the pinnacle of handling and balance, M1 aside Cayman S is yet higher. Think of it as M car balance on steroid.

I can understand if someone say CS feels underwhelm off the line but to argue M3 is a more well balanced vehicle than a CS is a hard pill to swallow. You mentioned these were expert's opinion, may I ask for source and perhaps I can learn something I am not aware of?

[Robert]

Okay hold on a second here guys. There's one important factor all of us overlooked CO2/KM. Remember the whole premise people have reasoned on the forum that manufacturers are moving to turbo because it's more efficient? Look at Cayman's 3.5L flat 6 has the same emission as BMW's 3.0 turbo and MPG. Really? What's going on here?

[Evice]

Originally Posted by bimmer74

Looks like BMW UK needs to work on their math skills The power to weight ratio "leading performance" should go to the Porsche - lower number is better.

You are not alone man, but obviously the editor is smoking crack

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by techthentic

I've got a 370z and a 335i, 370z isn't that much better, if it beats it, it's marginally better. But the nismo 370z and 1M should be a interesting match up

Problem is the brakes on the Nismo 370Z, after c&d or r&t stuffed one into a wall hotlapping it Nissan added a performance pad option but the still have issues with overheating because of the aggressive aero kit.

[natedog_1959]

They should have included the Boss or GT500 Mustangs in this comparo along with the Camaro, and SRT8 or 392 Challenger. Neither the Camaro or Challenger would fare very well on the road course but the Boss would beat any of the 3 cars in BMW's comparo.

Nate

[amdmaxx]

NO, it shouldn't. IIt's not a daily car (no a/c, limited sound insulation, etc).
Plus it's priced closer to m3..

Originally Posted by Sugarphreak

The Cayman R is also launching right now, seems like it should be on that comparison instead of the "S"

[trahsub]

Originally Posted by natedog_1959

They should have included the Boss or GT500 Mustangs in this comparo along with the Camaro, and SRT8 or 392 Challenger. Neither the Camaro or Challenger would fare very well on the road course but the Boss would beat any of the 3 cars in BMW's comparo.

Nate

I watched that Boss 302 special on speed, and the engineers brought an M3 to Laguna Seca as a benchmark vehicle, but before even fine tuning the Boss it, according to them, crushed the M3. I'm curious on exactly what crushed means though.

[ErvGotti]

Originally Posted by Robert

Extending on your point, Cayman/Cayman S is currently the best balanced car out of the cars you mentioned above. Really, it is a surgeon's scalpel. The weight balance figure does not tell the whole story of balance and driving is believing. M cars are on the pinnacle of handling and balance, M1 aside Cayman S is yet higher. Think of it as M car balance on steroid.

I can understand if someone say CS feels underwhelm off the line but to argue M3 is a more well balanced vehicle than a CS is a hard pill to swallow. You mentioned these were expert's opinion, may I ask for source and perhaps I can learn something I am not aware of?

Sorry when I mean pro I mean the guys from Road n Track and Motor trend and such as they review cars for a living. I looked into one track where at least two thing remain constant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ower_Lap_Times

Cayman S: 1:26.7
M3 Sedan: 1:25.3

Now again this is just one track, but it's always the same driver so at least that is one constant between car's which in my eye's is better test than a Porsche paid driver doing a faster lap against a BMW paid driver.

[Evice]

Originally Posted by ErvGotti

Sorry when I mean pro I mean the guys from Road n Track and Motor trend and such as they review cars for a living. I looked into one track where at least two thing remain constant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ower_Lap_Times

Cayman S: 1:26.7
M3 Sedan: 1:25.3

Now again this is just one track, but it's always the same driver so at least that is one constant between car's which in my eye's is better test than a Porsche paid driver doing a faster lap against a BMW paid driver.

I think Cayman S is losing couple seconds at the end stretch in the Ring vs. M3, hence it is at the end slower. but all in all it is phenomenal car, I hardly can see 1M compete with it when it is 3400 lbs and its competitor is only 2900 lbs. I think it is wrong to try to compare it.

[manuelf]

Originally Posted by Robert

Okay hold on a second here guys. There's one important factor all of us overlooked CO2/KM. Remember the whole premise people have reasoned on the forum that manufacturers are moving to turbo because it's more efficient? Look at Cayman's 3.5L flat 6 has the same emission as BMW's 3.0 turbo and MPG. Really? What's going on here?

Sorry - nothing has been overlooked here.
1. Cayman has much better aerodynamics (cw x A = 0,56) vs 1M (cw x A = 0,69) - no wonder - it is a small sports car!
2. Cayman is 140kg (300lbs) lighter than the 1M - no wonder - it is a small sports car!


So simple question: What can be deduced from the effect of Turbo for emissions, when both cars have the same emissions, but one is much heavier and has worse aerodynamics? Think about it

[manuelf]

Honestly - I do not understand the praising of the Cayman S in the context of the 1M at all.

1. Fact: The Cayman S is a brilliant sports car. A scalpel in its preciseness as someone mentioned here....

2. The Cayman S (at least here in germany) is somewhat 30% more expensive compared to the 1M (considered the options included in both cars)

3. From the fact that the Cayman S is that much more expensive AND has much less everyday convenience, one would expect that CS should wipe the floor with the 1M in terms of track qualities and performance.

But this will NOT be the case.
As I already stated: There are tracks (as the Nordschleife) where the CS does NOT shine as expected (tracktime Nordschleife 8:17 Sport Auto issue 12/2009). There are tracks where the CS is just brillant (Hockenheimring, 1:14,2), of course. So I would make a bet, that the tracktime of the 1M will be at least on par with the 8:17 of the CS on the Nordschleife.

But considering price AND all day usability of the 1 M, I suspect that it's performance (even if it's slightly sub CS level at an average) is outstanding!

So let's wait for first tests. I promise - as soon as the 1M matches or tops any of the published track times of CS I will report back in this thread