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      03-08-2014, 04:16 PM   #67
x97Melbourne
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Several mentions of the Car & Driver Article featuring the S5 vs. 435i made me read it for myself. And, for those who aren't regular readers, C & D is "die hard" BMW ultra-fans....BMW has won every single head-to-head contest (not counting the last 2 years). If C&D is no longer favoring BMW, something is wrong, and it can't be my imagination.

Both cars are of equal price and should attract cross shopping.

For those who haven't seen the article, here are some of the things that caught my eye:

Mind you, this is the brand new model, BMW's pride and joy at the moment, the 2014 435i M-Sport 6-MT. A $57,000 car. Their finest work right now in this price range!

Exerps: edited for clarity and so understood taken out of context:

"Audi's aging S5, introduced in 2008 still represents the 435i's greatest threat" p. 35
Seriously....a 2008 Audi represents a threat? Really? Isn't this supposed to be a brand new BMW 2014 model? BMW can't come up with something to beat a 2008 car of similar price in 6 years??? Really?? Good job BMW -- a 2008 Audi beat you!

(BMW) "Isolated Chamberride" p. 36
Isolated??? WHAT???? Aren't BMWs supposed to be the Ultimate Driving Machine?!?

"435i was perfectly serene -- hushed inside, with barely a hum from beneath the hood" p. 37
What is this a Cadillac? Who doesn't want to hear the engine note on an M-Sport 435i? Who screwed up at BMW?

(BMW) "The driver is isolated from the wheel and suspension...and the slow steering feels numb"p. 37
"The BMW is isolated and aloof" p.38
Again...good job BMW


Hey, I'm just a little bitter at the car company I love so much is getting it totally wrong. Gotta go....I need a martini.


Enjoy your 135i's............superior to anything currently made in my opinion.
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      03-10-2014, 10:50 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x97Melbourne View Post
Several mentions of the Car & Driver Article featuring the S5 vs. 435i made me read it for myself. And, for those who aren't regular readers, C & D is "die hard" BMW ultra-fans....BMW has won every single head-to-head contest (not counting the last 2 years). If C&D is no longer favoring BMW, something is wrong, and it can't be my imagination.

Both cars are of equal price and should attract cross shopping.

For those who haven't seen the article, here are some of the things that caught my eye:

Mind you, this is the brand new model, BMW's pride and joy at the moment, the 2014 435i M-Sport 6-MT. A $57,000 car. Their finest work right now in this price range!

Exerps: edited for clarity and so understood taken out of context:

"Audi's aging S5, introduced in 2008 still represents the 435i's greatest threat" p. 35
Seriously....a 2008 Audi represents a threat? Really? Isn't this supposed to be a brand new BMW 2014 model? BMW can't come up with something to beat a 2008 car of similar price in 6 years??? Really?? Good job BMW -- a 2008 Audi beat you!

(BMW) "Isolated Chamberride" p. 36
Isolated??? WHAT???? Aren't BMWs supposed to be the Ultimate Driving Machine?!?

"435i was perfectly serene -- hushed inside, with barely a hum from beneath the hood" p. 37
What is this a Cadillac? Who doesn't want to hear the engine note on an M-Sport 435i? Who screwed up at BMW?

(BMW) "The driver is isolated from the wheel and suspension...and the slow steering feels numb"p. 37
"The BMW is isolated and aloof" p.38
Again...good job BMW


Hey, I'm just a little bitter at the car company I love so much is getting it totally wrong. Gotta go....I need a martini.


Enjoy your 135i's............superior to anything currently made in my opinion.
Well said!
I even went to my BMW dealer open-minded to see a M235i in person, and sure enough, was greeted at the front of the dealer by an M235i, 228i and a 435i convertible. For 5 minutes, I had a tough time which car was the 2-series because of the HUGE similarities in the front end. When I finally realized which was the M235i, I was very disappointed. The M badges on the body of the car appeared gaudy and poseur-ish. The growth of the width of the car and the side profiles were very bland. The front was the best feature of the car and it was mediocre at best.

It seems design is aloof as well.
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      03-10-2014, 09:26 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundel335 View Post
In defense of my coworker - he's a computer guy and not much of a car guy (although I am both). It's like I said earlier...REAL car guys are becoming scarce. You'd be hard-pressed to find someone under 60 who knows that a condenser was once part of every car's ignition, or that camshafts weren't always overhead.
I still have my feeler gauges to gap the points. Lost the timing light a long time ago. LOL!

I think brands today can't rely on past reputation as they once did. Too many good, decent cars out there that take you from point A to point B. Most people that's all they care about. Look at Camry sales. BMW needs to focus more on what they used to do right and not what they think the public will tolerate with a steep price tag. I have to give credit to Mazda for keeping their driving dynamics intact as a corporate culture. They held off bringing the Mazda6 diesel to the US because the performance wasn't right for the domestic market. That shows,you there's more than bean counters still in the auto industry.
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      03-11-2014, 12:57 AM   #70
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I donno guys. Life is short. I've read this exact conversation on so many forums. Maybe just buy what you like and enjoy it regardless. I agree on the Lotus advice for the OP.
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      03-11-2014, 08:45 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overpar56 View Post
I still have my feeler gauges to gap the points. Lost the timing light a long time ago. LOL!

I think brands today can't rely on past reputation as they once did. Too many good, decent cars out there that take you from point A to point B. Most people that's all they care about. Look at Camry sales. BMW needs to focus more on what they used to do right and not what they think the public will tolerate with a steep price tag. I have to give credit to Mazda for keeping their driving dynamics intact as a corporate culture. They held off bringing the Mazda6 diesel to the US because the performance wasn't right for the domestic market. That shows,you there's more than bean counters still in the auto industry.
I was cleaning out some of my garage cabinets in preparation for moving this past weekend and found a compression gauge, remote starter button, and a dwell meter/tachometer. I think I bought those in the 1970s. I also had a timing light, but I must have given that to one of my neighbors with an older car.

Your point about the Camry is well-taken, as it exemplifies what I'm saying about car enthusiasts dying out. There are still lots of us, but not enough to keep a company the size of BMW afloat by building stripped-down performance cars. The amount of funding it takes these days to go from drawings to metal (or carbon fiber/plastic) is astronomical, and recouping that expenditure requires either a high price tag or lots and lots of sales. I remember the first Mustang, which was little more than a Ford Falcon with a sporty body - $2368, which in 1964 was at the top end of affordable. Same car today would cost more than 10 times that amount because it would have to meet Federal safety, emissions, and fuel economy standards. Mind you, that price did not include power anything and no air conditioning. A single-speaker AM radio was all you got for "infotainment". Even the seatbacks weren't adjustable.

If you remember Shakespeare from HS or College, you may also remember that famous line "host by his own petard", which translates to "falling on one's own sword". We did this to ourselves - the car companies are just trying to stay in business, and business is taking them away from low-cost "pure" performance cars.
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      05-14-2014, 01:10 PM   #72
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I am very happy with my 135is, so all is right in the world.
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      05-14-2014, 01:31 PM   #73
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Most of the reviews I've seen of the recent entry sports cars by BMW--1 series and M235i--have been rave reviews. I do agree that BMW may be spreading itself too thin, with so many models. Remember when Steve Jobs got Apple back on track by concentrating on doing a few things well?
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      05-14-2014, 01:34 PM   #74
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This is happening across all the German marques, not just BMW. What you have to do is pick out the best models from each one these days...just the way it is.
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      05-15-2014, 01:18 AM   #75
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I agree with a lot of the sentiment the OP mentioned. I think BMW is trying to appeal to too many people and straying away from their 'Ultimate Driving Machine' promise. Their new numbering system is nonsensical too: A 2-series is a small, RWD sports coupe. Oh wait, except it's not, because also wearing the 2-series badge is a front wheel drive people mover van thing. WTF? As someone else said, most of the German marques are trying to be more mass market. Just a sign of the times I guess. :/
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      05-15-2014, 11:38 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x97Melbourne View Post
Several mentions of the Car & Driver Article featuring the S5 vs. 435i made me read it for myself. And, for those who aren't regular readers, C & D is "die hard" BMW ultra-fans....BMW has won every single head-to-head contest (not counting the last 2 years). If C&D is no longer favoring BMW, something is wrong, and it can't be my imagination.
Another data point. They just tested the baby Audi (A3 Quattro), BMW (228i), and Mercedes (CLA450 4Drive). They finished in that order, although BMW did eke out a win in "sportiest" in spite of dismal cornering numbers, because of run flats. Otherwise, performance was a wash. The Audi crushed on interior, both use of space and quality.

Last edited by 128Convertibleguy; 05-15-2014 at 11:45 AM..
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