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| 08-05-2008, 06:23 PM | #23 | |
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1Addict's Mad Bomber
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Just my $.02, its not like he ordered a pink car. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. He gave them the option of buying ot from them if they met the other dealers price.
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*Traded in* 2008 135i/TiAg/Coral/6M/Sport/Ipod/Premium Audio/Heated seats *Picked up 16 August, gone 21 September. Good ridance.*  1975 Jeep CJ-5 |
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| 08-05-2008, 06:28 PM | #24 |
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First Lieutenant
 
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I personally don’t see the ethical dilemma. Unless you promised dealer B that you would give up your rights if he made the lower deal.
If you broke a promise to suspend your rights then you are acting unethical (not illegal). The laws against nonrefundable deposits are there to even out the buying process which is skewed towards the dealer. BMW is milking demand for the 1er. This is why there are very few on the lots. This helps them keep the prices up (no rebates or financing specials). There is nothing wrong with you exercising your rights to bring the price down.
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Crimson Red 135i, sport pkg ,blk leather delivered 6/27/08
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| 08-05-2008, 06:35 PM | #25 |
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Call
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I'm not even going to attempt to judge your actions...it is what it is. I do however have a little bit of a different take on dealing with those from whom I choose to purchase my vehicles.
I chose the dealership...they didn't choose me. Price for the vehicle is just part of why I do business with a dealership but it mostly comes down to the people who are employed there, the CA, the SA, the GM and all the service staff beginning with the person who answers the phone. If I can't grade them out with a perfect score I don't do business with them again, period. That doesn't mean I expect everything to go perfectly but when things don't, I expect them to make it right. It's all about the relationship not the dealership. Maybe I'm just old school... Call
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| 08-05-2008, 07:07 PM | #27 |
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Ok i am losing some sleep here! "B" has a price. "A" offered below invoice. "B" say we can't match. So, how much "A" offered. What if "B" did not match because they thought it was "BS". Now...it becomes logic 101.
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| 08-06-2008, 08:04 AM | #28 |
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no reason to lose sleep. A made a mistake and it ended up being in your favor. You're really losing sleep because someone else saved you a couple $k?
Look at it like this: the price that B gave you wasn't the best price for YOU, it was the best price for THEM. They're in business to make money, just as we all are. At the end of the day, they didn't give you the price they gave you because they like you, or because they want to make you happy, or because they're just cool guys. They gave you that price because it was the price at which they could sell you a car and get your money and future business instead of you spending it at another dealership. If dealership A forgets to cancel the car and then wants to just donk it off to you at some obscenely low price, then that's just your good luck. You didn't scheme your way into that deal, you didn't plan to deceive anyone...circumstances just worked out for you in such a way that you ended up getting a great deal. |
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| 08-06-2008, 11:50 AM | #29 | |
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| 08-06-2008, 12:22 PM | #30 |
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...or better yet recommend the CA to someone who is about to buy...now we are back to seventies man, peace to all humanity, flower power,no nukes.oh ahh..not the oil crisis!
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| 08-07-2008, 12:15 AM | #31 |
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Thanks for the responses, guys. It does make me feel a little better that the majority would have done the same. I don't want to give out any names publicly, but if you are very interested in the dealer B car, PM me and I will respond with the dealer, CA name, and my quoted price. Yes, it is in the Bay Area (California).
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| 08-07-2008, 06:37 AM | #32 |
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YearOneOfThe1
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Black Sapphire - 6 Speed - Coupe - Black On Black Interior - Sport Package - Cold Weather - Navigation - Park Distance - BMW Assist - USB/ iPod - Xenon [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] O N E's - 1 2 8 i
Delivered: 08 “Year One -11- Of The 1” 08 - Debadged: 08 “Day One -11- Of The 1” 08 |
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| 08-07-2008, 07:25 AM | #33 |
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1addict, and proud
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sairex
You sound like a very nice person. I totally agree with everyone here. In my opinion you did nothing wrong. In business things do not always work out. That is business. But if you still feel really strong and this continues to bother you, maybe you should write a letter to the salesperson explaining how you feel. Thanking him/her for their time etc. Sometimes in life we have to do things we are not happy with; this is one of them! It is people like yourself that make this world better, having these kind of feelings. I hope you continue to contribute to this forum. I have read about how other forums are full of bad comments and people complaining about silly things. We have been very fortunate here, and I think it is these kind of comments that make this forum special. Thanks for posting. If it helps you, I will say a bit about my 135 purchase... I started with introducing the 1 to my SO. That went very well and she went crazy over it. Next thing I knew it became her car. We were now on a mission to get this 1. So, after some talking we came across a “fleet manager” who was going to sell us the 135 almost fully loaded for $2,500.00 lower than MSRP. Well we got an order number and everything seemed really good. Over about 10 days there was like zero communication on his side. I asked a few questions and basically was treated quite rude, claiming the "dealer" who I had no idea who that was, was too busy for me. After talking to my SO we decided this deal just was not right; we did not trust him at all (fleet manager) due to his lack of help etc in any way, (email response with like 1 word after I would ask like 3 questions) We were worried what would happen if the car was damaged or some other issue; this car needed a dealership I felt. So off we went to find a dealership. We went to the most elaborate fancy one to go to in our area. They said sure and gave me a MSRP with zero deductions. I went to 1 other and they were very unhelpful and didn't want to give me a quote but said MSRP is what it's looking like. This is also what everyone here was saying too, MSRP IS normal for this car. To end the story without dragging this on, the fancy place got the order but it was FAR from being nice. The way they work is ok if everyone there is on top of things; they were not. I promised the CA I would not say why, but lets just say that was not the last of it. I will say this; DO NOT GET 3rd party stuff from dealership unless you have everything in writing first with a total guarantee it will be perfect. If it is not, do not pay for the car, and have them record the mess up. If I had not been so NICE I think I would have been treated much better! It is being nice they walk all over us! IT IS TOTALLY TRUE THAT many DEALERSHIPS ARE slime! I have yet to come across any that do not manipulate everything. I now feel I cannot go back to them for much. I had a PDC failure and they claim they are so perfect only to have the back seat not put back properly, so the seatbelt on the right passenger side is wrongly inserted, it could even be the clips that hold it all in is broken. I have yet to figure out the mess. Anyway, I really wanted to post good stuff about them, as I do like the CA (even though I know he too lied to me..I came across other 1addicts who used him, who he gave DISCOUNT TO...so he lied to me! I guess it’s part of the job...not that I like that) So as you can see it's much a money game! Enjoy your car! It's a shame we can't buy these cars better than this. Also be happy in USA you pay between 15-30% less than us Canadians. 30% for me as I got lots of options! Oh and expect your amazing leather bound book in the mail in 1-2 months! EspressoBoy |
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| 08-07-2008, 10:50 AM | #34 | |
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 .Now seriously, as I have said numerous time before the dealership nor the CA are your friend. They make a living out of selling a vehicle to you (the customer) to the highest level you can take. Your job is to get what you want at the price you want and their is to get a maximum of profit with what ever they can offer. A bit of marketing info from our own market research that might be of interest to some of you: The first time a customer walks into our showroom chances of closing on a deal is 85%. We have to hit him/her hard to sell something in a respectful and ethical manner since we put customer service first. Second time he/she comes back it lowers to 62% chance of dealing thus putting more stress on the sales person who has to either negotiate or stay firm depending on the client's profile (weak like our friend espressoboy or tough like me). Third time it lowers even less to 34% chance; manager like me have to usually step in and close the deal or refuse but my sales guy wont win big anyhow at this point so everyone loses. This data is taken from the company I work at and we sell very exclusive high end products. Our customers have very discriminating tastes and either know their stuff very well or they come to educate themselves and this has a cost (less discount)! The more a customer has time to think, recoup information, educate him/herself the more doubt enter her/his mind and the less chances a sales person can close a deal. On the other hand, if a customer walks in with a well put together plan and is very educated about our product (done their homework) the sales person cannot butter up the client thus should grant him/her the deal at little profit. We are in business to make money and luckily their are many "good" customer like you :thumbup:. Times are changing though, customers get more educated on selling techniques thanks to Edmunds and JD power consumer advocates but company still find new ways of making money through financial product and service which compensate greatly losses from direct sell. Don-
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| 08-07-2008, 11:04 AM | #35 |
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1addicts CA
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Drives: 2005 330i ZHP cic, 2021 X5 40i
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At the risk of soiling my image...
Sitting on the other side of desk, I'm gonna have to disagree (understandably) with the majority. IMO, you & dealer B entered into & had a contract, you tried to change it at the last moment. Would it have been appropriate for them to all of a sudden ask you to pay more? As someone else earlier said, they did everything correct, to the point where you agreed to sign with them & now they have a car showing up in a week or two custom ordered to your specs. I agree with the Larryn that there should be some sort of accountability for the client as well. And it is circumstances such as these that will continue to prevent our market from having programs from individual and the like. Now don't get me wrong, I understand WHY you took the other car. But I am a person of my word (yes I know many dealers are not), but if I enter into a deal with someone, I keep my end of the bargain. I expect the client to do the same. What you did is the equivilent of me making a deal, then all of a sudden selling that car to someone else because they'll pay more. I know the majority of you won't agree with me & will throw out countless examples of dealers have wronged clients. But it is what it is, enjoy your car. (and no, it's not worth losing sleep over, move on enjoy it:smile
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| 08-07-2008, 11:21 AM | #36 |
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(weak like our friend espressoboy or tough like me)
Please explain how I was weak. The dog is a joke. I do agree it's quite silly, I don't own a pet, I used to have yoda avatar, but this was too funny... As for saying someone is nice I don't see how that is a bad thing? EspressoBoy |
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| 08-07-2008, 11:25 AM | #37 |
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I would not loose any sleep, a sale is not complete till you have the car, dealers often approve people and call them back later because financing did not work, and want more money or a higher interest rate
if the sale is not complete, it's nothing to loose sleep over however, that other dealer was kinda shady in the way that they got your buisness |
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| 08-07-2008, 11:55 AM | #38 |
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One more thing to add. Having bought numerous times from the same dealership, I've had (mostly) decent experiences. I've built a relationship with many of the people at my local BMW Center. I know my SA and CA, as well as the parts guy, and a few of the managers.
Because of those relationships that I've built over quite a few years, I've had better than average experiences. I went in to my 1er purchase knowing that I wouldn't get a better deal elsewhere, and I went in knowing that I can just talk to people like they are people, and not an adversary. Sure there's bargaining to be had.. it's part of the fun. You'll find that just going in, asking for a bottom line, and buying (or not), leaves a lot out of the experience. I can call my CA and chat with him, or stop by to just say hi at any time. I've found them to also be passionate about the product, just as I am. Also, being a part of the CCA makes a large difference, and they'll generally knock off some $$ or treat you a bit better because of that. |
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| 08-07-2008, 12:55 PM | #39 | |
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two wrongs don't make a right, but there are plenty of times when a car buyer gets screwed because of something that a dealership does, sometimes by accident and sometimes on purpose. I'm not saying that anyone deserves to get stuck with a car they don't want or can't sell, but at the end of the day these things even out. I'd have a lot more sympathy for the dealership if the industry as a whole would make an effort to treat their customers better. Yeah, the sleazy car salesman is a stereotype, but stereotypes are at least somewhat based on reality even if they aren't universally true, or even true in a majority of cases. Your analogy of selling the car to someone who will pay more might be applicable, but this is more of an issue of "what am I contractually obligated to pay for and what can I get away with not paying for" and I can think of plenty of times a dealership has refused warranty work on things (once for me, and many times from talking to other people) because it just barely falls outside of the defined limits or even simply because of a creative interpretation by the dealership, even though common sense says it should be covered. As for individual programs...this is VERY easy to solve. Simply require a much larger and absolutely 100% non-refundable deposit. I absolutely guarantee that you can sell an individual program car off the lot if you sell it for invoice. And if you've got a non-refundable $5k deposit, you're probably making money on the deal. |
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| 08-07-2008, 12:57 PM | #40 |
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Colonel
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Mini is able to do the individual program, I always thought it was bmw NA protecting the brand name, and not allowing things like cloth
they also force you into packages this way |
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| 08-07-2008, 12:58 PM | #41 |
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Larry,
That is exactly what I was hoping for. It certainly started out friendly. I never really had any probs with my CA, other than finding out from another 1addict that he had the same CA, and he gave him a discount off the street and didn't have as much options as I had. The CA must have sized us up and decided we were not going to give this guy a discount. When I asked him about discounts he said this car doesn't get one. He used this site to show us pictures. It was him where I found the site. Anyway, maybe I should try and patch things up? I do want a good dealership. After my guests leave I will report to them the errors, and the little problems and see how the SA does. I didn't care so much about getting $500 - $1000 off as I wanted to be treated nicely and wanted everything to go like clockwork. It didn't and the car has problems due to their error of repair (at least this is how I take it) After all I did turn down $2500 discount thinking there was something fishy happening. EspressoBoy are PPL getting tired of my silly yoda dowg? I got rid of it, now I has a mean lil Yoda ready to kick yer ass... He's mean, and ready to protect me as a good avatar should!!! |
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| 08-07-2008, 01:34 PM | #42 | |
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My thoughts
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I really like you dbtheo but i will have to disaggree with you for the first time. You see, the arrangement was not a contract, there were no specific language that says so. That is the dilemma we are facing now as customers and probably dealerships. The normal dynamics of purchasing has changed from this 1 series and perhaps also in the past for cars being newly introduced. The reasonable expectation from a person purchasing a car from your end (dealerships) is completely different from the perspective of the buyer. To map out the process, 1. you agree on a price. 2. You tender a deposit to reserve the product. Delivery time unknown. 3. Wait till the product becomes available. As you realize, in between those steps, a lot of loopholes will arise. here are my points. When you put a deposit, is there a document signed with agreements on it? I think there is none. If none, then the legal system will be the re-course (now, it could vary from state to state). Same with the expectation of time of delivery-there is none outline, what 6-7-8 weeks on and on. The production number given is not even a guarantee to have a vehicle. You see, the open-ness of the transaction gives both parties a lot of re-courses. Classic example is the A and B case. A put a price, B offers a lower price, C-customer backs out from A. The open market nature of the business developed this environment. Another point, the transactions outlines a historical approach by salesmen and i believe that is what you are pointing out. The "I got you approach" . You see, the traditional sales mechanism goes like this... "C" gets into a dealership, agree on the price and goes 2 ways.. roll out the product and its a done deal.The second one is a little similar to what the reservation process that we have on the 1 series. A or B will hold the price and the product for you if you tender a commitment until X time. The difference with the 1 series, the product is not there, so the promise is both ways. "I will secure a product for you if you give a commitment" no time elements, no commitment on the delivery date. So the philosophy of "I have given you my word" can not withstand legal scrutiny except for some states. Now, poster "Mega" you created a scenario like this on one of your threads. In some states that a verbal contract holds, you are "toast". It is good you are not here in california.
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| 08-07-2008, 01:41 PM | #44 |
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All4One Well written. More things to think about before the next car is purchased.
Yup back from a super drive to Montreal and Quebec. Did the b&b as much as possible as lots of great meals with family in swanky lil places that treat you super. The force was with me (as always in a caring family)... and I sense the force with you also... must be the 1addicts force! EspressoBoy |
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