Can those with 1Ms compare to JB3?

[lavaletta]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

So far it's been documented that the piston rings are different, the flywheel is different, DME mappings are different, intake is different, and exhaust is different. In addition, the 6MT is the revised transmission found on the 2011+ car, which is already an improvement over the 2010 and older manual transmissions.

Sure, the core is an N54 engine, but anyone saying that his/her 135i N54 is identical, is in some major denial. Clearly the N54 going on the 1M was tweaked to better suit the task at hand, which is powering a car worthy of the letter ///M

Well said, sir!

[JHOOPS2]

Can some one link me to the specs released that show the intake and piston differences?

[Red135]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

So far it's been documented that the piston rings are different, the flywheel is different, DME mappings are different, intake is different, and exhaust is different. In addition, the 6MT is the revised transmission found on the 2011+ car, which is already an improvement over the 2010 and older manual transmissions.

Sure, the core is an N54 engine, but anyone saying that his/her 135i N54 is identical, is in some major denial. Clearly the N54 going on the 1M was tweaked to better suit the task at hand, which is powering a car worthy of the letter ///M

Having been in the engine compartment, I am not sure how the intake is different. And, I don't believe BMW has used this trans in any other 1-series.
But, otherwise agree.

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by Red135

Having been in the engine compartment, I am not sure how the intake is different. And, I don't believe BMW has used this trans in any other 1-series.
But, otherwise agree.

It is the same transmission found on my car (2011 135 6mt) part number for part number. They never made a big deal about it for the 2011 135i, but they are highlighting the differences since it's now on the 1M. The throws are shorter (and the lever on the 1M may be even shorter than the one on my car).

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

intake is different, and exhaust is different.

Sure, the core is an N54 engine, but anyone saying that his/her 135i N54 is identical, is in some major denial. Clearly the N54 going on the 1M was tweaked to better suit the task at hand, which is powering a car worthy of the letter ///M

Major denial? The differences are minor at best (maybe except for the piston rings you mention...i don't know enough about that to even comment)....as far as the intake is concerned maybe the airbox is fluted different on the inside??? Even still any differences to the intake side are minimal....the exhaust being different is a push as there aren't any performance gains from it and it is a more a visual/audio difference more than anything....so the engine being nominally the same/identical is still a valid argument IMO. The engine was already tweaked and put on a vehicle before it went into the 1M...its called 335is

[JHOOPS2]

I know the pistons are different than what is in a N55. That's for sure. I just don't think they are different than any other forged N54 piston. I mean, these pistons are pretty dang good.

Edit: read, I just saw pistons on the post I quoted, missed rings all together. Rings are very possible. That is an easy change that could have been for many reasons. Different manufacturer, etc, etc.

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

Major denial? The differences are minor at best (maybe except for the piston rings you mention...i don't enough about that to even comment)....as far as the intake is concerned maybe the airbox is fluted different on the inside??? Even still any differences to the intake side are minimal....the exhaust being different is a push as there aren't any performance gains from it and it is a more a visual/audio difference more than anything....so the engine being nominally the same/identical is still a valid argument IMO. The engine was already tweaked and put on a vehicle before it went into the 1M...its called 335is

Yup, major denial. Piston rings and flywheel upgrades are not considered "minor" differences in my book, as one is directly related to compression and the other is directly related to throttle response, both of which are connected to the performance of the engine. Obviously to most of us the intakes look the same since at this point they are closed black boxes, however, a change in design has been mentioned multiple times. The same goes for the exhaust, and I wouldn't say that the gains are minimal, given that there is not enough dyno evidence of this puppy just yet, and most sources are saying that BMW was very modest/conservative when releasing the numbers. Lastly, the engine that made it to the 335is is an N54 with a power kit on it, which the 1M's engine has as well, however, no internal components were changed. In addition, a change in DME mappings alongside the overboost feature are also new and make a difference in performance. Engine code the same? Sure. Exact same engine (to include vital components such as DME)? Not at all.

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by JHOOPS2

I know the pistons are different than what is in a N55. That's for sure. I just don't think they are different than any other forged N54 piston. I mean, these pistons are pretty dang good.

Dude, piston-rings and pistons are different parts.

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

Yup, major denial. Piston rings and flywheel upgrades are not considered "minor" differences in my book, as one is directly related to compression and the other is directly related to throttle response, both of which are connected to the performance of the engine.

They are minor as compared to what has been the trend for M engined vehicles versus their more "pedestrian" counterparts. I wonder if the piston ring change was done for better compression or for better heat transfer? Like I said I havent read much about that particular upgrade so maybe you could shed more light on that. The flywheel is a difference but i would wager it isn't a HUGE difference to the normal driver when driven back to back...just my opinion....

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

They are minor as compared to what has been the trend for M engined vehicles versus their more "pedestrian" counterparts. I wonder if the piston ring change was done for better compression or for better heat transfer? Like I said I havent read much about that particular upgrade so maybe you could shed more light on that. The flywheel is a difference but i would wager it isn't a HUGE difference to the normal driver when driven back to back...just my opinion....

Obviously what's considered "minor" or "major" could be subjective to the person using the terminology. I consider them major because both upgrades affect the performance of the car substantially. The rings probably withstand compression better and provide a better seal given that this car not only pushes out more power out of the box, but the overboost feature is a variable that had to be compensated for.

I have to disagree that a light flywheel setup could go unnoticed. Without having driven the car, just by watching video just pay attention to how quickly those are rpms rise and fall when the car is revved; this is 100% crucial when it comes to the responsiveness and cat-like reflexes that this car is said to have. Such advantage is directly related to the lighter flywheel and not just the DME mappings.

[JHOOPS2]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

Dude, piston-rings and pistons are different parts.

I've built and engine or so in my life, so I know what's what. I must have misread that part. I'm on an iPhone.

Still for about the third time can anyone cite where any of this is mentioned from BMW other than just Internet conjecture.

[Impervious]

I'm excited to hear people's reviews/thoughts on 135i vs. 1M once the honeymoon period is over. I have no doubt the 1M is the superior car but how much better remains to be seen.


Pretty sure the 1M will be my next car (if I can obtain one) regardless.

[GotM]

I compared some parts on Realoem. I am not sure how accurate this info is, but the pistons and rings were the only parts that had a different PN.

Intake, air box, and even the flywheel were the same on a 3/09 build N54 for the 135 compared to a 3/11 build N54 on the 1M.

But, as mentioned I don't know the accuracy of the information.

[JHOOPS2]

After coming from a 750hp car weighing 3600lbs (dry) to this little nimble critter, I have rethought what my next car would be. I was thinking of going the M3 route, but now I don't know. Might have to see what the next gen 1'er has in store.

[HondaGoneRogue]

Originally Posted by JHOOPS2

Might have to see what the next gen 1'er has in store.

Bingo.

[Papethova]

Originally Posted by fastauto

I also want to see what the numbers look like when you flash a 1m. I am going to go guess that it's going to be greater than a 135 with a flash. If it's the same engine then why would this be? If the 1m has the same engine as the 135 and the difference is simply a factory tune then both engines with the same flash should be equal. That being said I doubt that will be the case

Identical flash or tune should yield identical results/numbers. The tune adjusts parameters to a certain level and what level those parameters were at before the tune are irrelevant.

If map 5 is 14 psi then its 14 psi in either car, one car may have started at 9 and the other at 12 but they will both be at 14. It is not like a bolt on that adds X hp to baseline.

What BMW changed on the 1M (as far as software changes go) ate up into the space that the tune works in.

[1SerieStud]

This is correct assuming a flash tune. Piggy backs add to the base map, since the DME is being fooled.

Originally Posted by Papethova

Identical flash or tune should yield identical results/numbers. The tune adjusts parameters to a certain level and what level those parameters were at before the tune are irrelevant.

If map 5 is 14 psi then its 14 psi in either car, one car may have started at 9 and the other at 12 but they will both be at 14. It is not like a bolt on that adds X hp to baseline.

What BMW changed on the 1M (as far as software changes go) ate up into the space that the tune works in.

[fastauto]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

^^^rollseyes.....the differences/if any would be negligible......

Let's Wait and see

[fastauto]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

So far it's been documented that the piston rings are different, the flywheel is different, DME mappings are different, intake is different, and exhaust is different. In addition, the 6MT is the revised transmission found on the 2011 car, which is already an improvement over the 2010 and older manual transmissions.

Sure, the core is an N54 engine, but anyone saying that his/her 135i N54 is identical, is in some major denial. Clearly the N54 going on the 1M was tweaked to better suit the task at hand, which is powering a car worthy of the letter ///M

Thank you! People are not understanding the larger picture. The 135 with Mods is a quick car but if people are only drag racing them then I think it's safe to assume they purchased the wrong car.

[JHOOPS2]

Originally Posted by fastauto

Thank you! People are not understanding the larger picture. The 135 with Mods is a quick car but if people are only drag racing them then I think it's safe to assume they purchased the wrong car.

That's not what this thread is about. This thread is about engine performance in regards to tuning. I think we all can agree that the 1-Series M Coupe is going to be a great track car. However the best way to gauge overall power train performance from the crank pulley to the differential is in a straight line. I'm sure there will be plenty of handling dynamics threads in the future. This is more or less to know how things stack up once a JB4, Cobb, proceed or some other tuning system is applied. I also don't think anyone is saying that the M is just another 135i. I am still going to stick to my guns that the long block is still the same N54 that is in the N54 powered x35 cars. I can easily expect that there could be different rings evolved, however what kind of rings are they? Are they a better performing ring, or are they different because they come from a different source than the earlier N54 came from? I just want to see where these specs are coming from that everyone keeps bringing up. I have searched everywhere and can find no factual evidence to back up anything to do with intake, flywheel, piston rings, or any other changes. That's all I'm pointing out. I don't think I am in denial. I just like facts, and until someone can show it to me on a piece of paper I am going to stick to my guns.

[HondaGoneRogue]

I think the small motor tweaks (Yes, they are small tweaks to me) wouldn't have been first on anybodies list if they were the ones designing the 1M. Nobody would have said "Let's keep the same motor, but swap piston rings an flywheel.". Even aftermarket companies haven't pursued changing these items. I'm not suggesting that they are negligible upgrades, but I think people are trying to make the motor more than it really is. The DME doesn't count. Anyone can get and probably will get a reflash. We can also easily swap the flywheel (that's a common mod on other cars), but in the end the upgrades are nothing groundbreaking or major. Can you call it a different engine? Sure, if that makes you feel better. Can you call it relatively the same? Yup, you sure can. The bigger picture of the car as a whole is what should be celebrated. We all have an awesome powerplant!

[JHOOPS2]

Proof that I know what a piston is, LOL. This is just one of my left over Cobra pistons that I am going to machine down slightly to make a cup holder out of. I'll be using it with an old engine block to make my very own "Top Gear" engine table...;-)