M235 vs 135...test drive

[motorchimp]

Originally Posted by Goombeh

And you take your foot off the brake, you know what it's going to do every time, it moves away, it doesn't have to engage. The DCs can feel a little strange in this area.

Great car.

I guess it's driver preference at the end of the day.
I find the DCT to act like a manual when going from a stop, I had quite a few manual cars, and I didnt always get smooth starts off the line, most times yes but sometimes I'd get the clutch too low or too high. The DCT acts the same, most times it's super smooth but some times it's a tad off.
Personally I love that about it. It's a clutch with an automated clutch pedal, and it acts exactly like that.

[Da_Meister_22]

Great write up, thanks for sharing.

[CAVU]

Originally Posted by motorchimp

I guess it's driver preference at the end of the day.
I find the DCT to act like a manual when going from a stop, I had quite a few manual cars, and I didnt always get smooth starts off the line, most times yes but sometimes I'd get the clutch too low or too high. The DCT acts the same, most times it's super smooth but some times it's a tad off.
Personally I love that about it. It's a clutch with an automated clutch pedal, and it acts exactly like that.

A bit quirky, but I like it too. The computer is always trying to guess what you are going to ask from the car. When backing out of my driveway (which is slightly downhill), I brake before getting to the curb and you can feel the clutch taking the car out of gear and the corresponding increase in engine RPM (cold motor). Same thing on an incline. The car may roll backwards a tiny bit before the clutch releases. I miss having a manual transmission about 20% of the time... the rest of the time I'm extremely happy with the DCT... especially when I hear that bark during upshifts! On balance, I'm enjoying my time with the DCT.

[motorchimp]

Yep, I also love how fast it upshifts! Like the gear was there just waiting to be engaged. Curious if the 8 spd on the 2 is comparable.

Originally Posted by RickMsport

... the rest of the time I'm extremely happy with the DCT... especially when I hear that bark during upshifts! On balance, I'm enjoying my time with the DCT.

[rrinorl]

i'd like to see what someone who has switched out bushings and some other suspension items in their 1 would say about the 2..

[NYHoustonman]

Originally Posted by rrinorl

i'd like to see what someone who has switched out bushings and some other suspension items in their 1 would say about the 2..

I have Dinan springs/dampers and Michelin PSS 225/255. Had a quick test drive in an M235i when my local dealer got one in (quicker than I'd like, really, but it was rush hour) and it felt very similar. The M235i seemed to handle road imperfections a little better - maybe due to the adaptive dampers, maybe due to the longer wheelbase - and felt equally buttoned down. As others have said, the ZF 8-speed gearbox is a game changer for automatics.

I wish I could find a way to have a proper drive in the new car, to really feel the difference closer to the limit, because even though I've now driven both I find myself wondering the same thing. I know the M235i is a standard 2-series chassis with uprated springs/dampers, and better brakes. No changes to suspension geometry (except for the ride height drop) or bushings (I don't think?). The only thing I can say with certainty is that the M235i handles rough roads with more composure than my car, at least at lower speeds.

Given this, I can't help but wonder if BMW could have made the 1-series handle equally well with non-RFT tires (PSS seem to work wonders) and a more sporty suspension tune. It'll never handle quite like a true M-car, I'm sure, as it's meant to be more forgiving, but the added front-end grip makes a huge difference.

[GeeRam]

I agree that after my test drive in a M235 last week, the ride comfort and chassis setup is a huge improvement over the stock E82 135i. But given the extra track and wheelbase, and decade or so of development it bloody well should do as well

I also agree with others in that the ZF8 is very, very good for a slushbox, but I still prefer the DCT, just feels that bit more mechanical in nature.

I thought the steering was woeful. Way over assisted at slow speed, and no feel at all. Yes, the rack ratio is quick, and therefore gives an impression of being sporty and pointy, but there was no feel there.

Yo can feel the extra 20 odd horses in the N55, but given the feeling of being in a bigger car, it didn't feel that much difference. I still feel the M235 is a more realistic replacement for the 335i rather than the 135i, with the extra size and refinement. To be honest if I had closed my eyes I could have been in a 3 Series or even 5 Series.
If I wanted that feeling, I'd just buy one of those.

As a consequence, it didn't put a grin on my face the same way that my first drive of a E82 135i did.

I won't be buying one.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

I thought the steering was woeful. Way over assisted at slow speed, and no feel at all. Yes, the rack ratio is quick, and therefore gives an impression of being sporty and pointy, but there was no feel there.

Spot on.

I'm not sure why everyone is expecting to be different. It is the same horrid unit that is found in the rest of the F gen cars.

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by NYHoustonman

Given this, I can't help but wonder if BMW could have made the 1-series handle equally well with non-RFT tires (PSS seem to work wonders)

After reading many rave reviews about the M235i I keep wondering the same thing. I wished BMW would of given the 135i a non-runflat setup, would of worked wonders.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Drove a 435Msport 8speed on Sat.

Did not think the DCT was clearly superior, it just feels a little different sort of depends on what you are used to much like the electric steering.

In Sport+ mode it should get around any road course without any problem since it was faster around VIR's 4.1 mile course than the DCT. The current "slushbox" is superior to the DCT at the drag strip so I would not think twice about getting one. In fact I am getting one.

Regardless they are both superior to the 6MT even though the MT is a fun ride.

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Yea...I only have a 128 sprt pkg and went to test drive the 235.....walked out with a pen'd order

Mineral Grey Metallic
Red Coral Leather
Auto
Premium pkg
Tech pkg
Cold Weather pkg
Harman/Kardon audio

Bam!

[PopsnBurbles]

Honestly, the M235i for me is a very nice car but it's not that huge of a step up compared to a 330ci ZHP (e46) and a 335i (N54/N55). If I am already driving a 135i/is, I would not really upgrade to the M235i. Yes, I accept it as an upgrade.

- M235i has better looking front end.
- It has prettier brakes
- Much better factory tires (RFTs vs PSS)...Tires help with A LOT (braking, cornering, acceleration, etc.)
- EPS feels odd but it's not extremely bad. In terms of feedback, it's decent. In weighting, it's pretty bad but that apparently has been fixed here. Also, 1er steering is exceptionally heavily weighted for today's cars.
- 135i/is stock suspension is tuned to run RFTs. M235i is tuned for either.
- Speaking of suspension, M235i must have a VASTLY superior suspension if the claim about it competing against the 1M around a track is true. I don't have a link but I've read it all over.
- As for DCT vs 8AT, the DCT is superior in most cases. DCT is just more ROBUST on both upshift and downshift. DCT has one less too many gears. For me, 8 gears is too much when driving hard. It's 6 speed where it's at. However, I would rather daily the 8AT because DCT is too robust to DD. Jerking here and there if you're not careful.

Lastly, the M235i should be compared to the 135is seeing how they still applied the PPK(2) on the car. (If 435i is still 300hp stock, then M235i must have a ppk or something similar.)

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by vanbmw

The I drive screen looks like an after thought. It looks like they had finished and some engineer attached a tablet computer to the top of the dash.

This Is The Worst New Trend In Car Interior Design
http://jalopnik.com/this-is-the-wors...ign-1564314503

[ItsHectic]

Any1 driven the new A class and the M235i, wondering if BMW steering has as much road feel as the A classes.

[Diver]

Originally Posted by vanbmw

I have Michelin PSS on my 135. I didn't look at the tires on the M235 sorry! However, I did go over a few bumps and man hole covers that the M235 absorbed nicely so I would guess it had Michelin PSS. My runflats used to transmit a loud "bang" thru the car over manholes or pot holes...I didn't get any of that with the 235.

Are you running stock tires or some other size?

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by ehagerty

Yea...I only have a 128 sprt pkg and went to test drive the 235.....walked out with a pen'd order

Mineral Grey Metallic
Red Coral Leather
Auto
Premium pkg
Tech pkg
Cold Weather pkg
Harman/Kardon audio

Bam!

downgrade, IMO. you should have just driven a 135is first. you can get one for $8k off sticker brand new for remaining stock and it is JUST as fast, lighter, and with real steering....and it doesn't have a slushbox automatic.

[CAVU]

Originally Posted by ehagerty

Yea...I only have a 128 sprt pkg and went to test drive the 235.....walked out with a pen'd order

Mineral Grey Metallic
Red Coral Leather
Auto
Premium pkg
Tech pkg
Cold Weather pkg
Harman/Kardon audio

Bam!

Congratulations! I think you're gonna love it! Good choice in color... although I am a bit partial.

Originally Posted by IEDEI

downgrade, IMO. you should have just driven a 135is first. you can get one for $8k off sticker brand new for remaining stock and it is JUST as fast, lighter, and with real steering....and it doesn't have a slushbox automatic.

I'm running PSSs on my car, so I have trouble convincing myself that I missed out by ordering the 135is instead of waiting for the M235i. I haven't driven the M235i yet, so I should probably reserve final judgement until then.

[tuco44]

Well, I have decided to go a different route altogether. I have driven the M235i auto, but not the manual one yet. I do think the M234i is a very nice car, and all things being equal, I "might" have stepped up the plate on a M235i 6MT.

BUT, I did not do that. Firstly, it would cost me in the area of $20 to $25K Cdn all in to go to the M235i. That is a lot of $ for the upgrades the M235i does have. I am not feeling particularly "spendy" right now, as I am just retired and the M235i would truly fall into the "luxury" class of expenditure for me. Getting the M235i would not, IMO, feel like as big of a step up as one would hope to get for over $20k extra $.

However, I am older, have had 17 BMWs; yet want a car that is fun to drive for my toy (we have another car for long distance trips etc). So, decided to get something I also wanted to try. Ordered a new MINI Cooper S (F56) 6MT to come end of June or so. The "S" has the B48 BMW modular 2.0L engine with 189hp and 207lbft (221lbft on overrun). I am aware of MINIs spotty track record for reliability, but now have the time to deal with issues.
MINIs are super fun cars, and the new Gen 3 model has corrected many of the past shortcomings. The money issue is virtually flat, with me having to write a very small check.

I'm looked forward to having a blast with the MCS for about 2 or 3 years. By then, either I will become super practical and just have one car in the family, or I might get really crazy and check out the then-new M2. Who knows?

So, I not leaving the BMW family, but just going a different route inside it.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Effort /= Feel.

I certainly agree it feels like the current Cayman S, but I would not see that as a compliment. I thought both were fairly lifeless, and nothing like the ever so feelsome E36 M3.

I got to say that this is exactly what I was thinking! And I did a good test drive of the new Boxster S. The steering was the biggest issue in that car for me. I hope new M3's set up will be much different.

On the E36 anology; arguably I might be driving the best hydraulic set up (1M) among modern BMWs and E36 was still better imho.

[ManCityFan]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

downgrade, IMO. you should have just driven a 135is first. you can get one for $8k off sticker brand new for remaining stock and it is JUST as fast, lighter, and with real steering....and it doesn't have a slushbox automatic.

Lol....just to add some balance here. Thanks in part to IEDEI's tireless campaigning for the 1er, I felt that I had to drive one before pulling the trigger on a 235 (or other) to replace my evo. So I took a local 135i for spin and...was disappointed. I was surprised by the amount of harshness, body roll and understeer. Just didn't feel as well sorted as the 235i? Also seemed like it had a bit more turbo lag? Steering was more similar than different imo...neither has a ton of road feel. Anyway, both are deffo great cars but I prefer the 235.

[vanbmw]

Originally Posted by Diver

Are you running stock tires or some other size?

225 out front and 255 in rear

[NYHoustonman]

Originally Posted by PopsnBurbles

- Speaking of suspension, M235i must have a VASTLY superior suspension if the claim about it competing against the 1M around a track is true. I don't have a link but I've read it all over.

To be honest, I still think this comes down (mostly) to tires. From what I've read, the geometry of the M235's suspension, particularly in front, is not markedly different from that on a stock 135i. No comparison to the M3 components and geometry in the 1M.