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      12-19-2012, 10:00 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
You're talking about kids that spend hours a day with a teacher, every day for 8 months. Year after year. All it would take is one kid to find out that the teacher carried a gun. And if you publicize the fact that one or more teachers were carrying (via law, via school policy, etc.)? Kids will find out even quicker. And, yes, you'd have to publicize it because parents would demand to know which teachers were carrying.

I don't disagree that some teachers can be trained to carry in a classroom environment, but I think it would be an easier/safer fix to just hire or appoint someone to be a full-time security guard. And to make it less of a boring job, they could even have primary responsibility for developing school safety procedures, practices and drills. Could be a decent gig.
I don't know about you but i've had a CWP since 1994. I've never had anyone, stranger or otherwise notice that i was carrying. Including my coworkers after carrying for 3 years, day after day, 8 hours or more a day. But that's beside the point. We're not talking about a possibility, we're talking about it already happening in Texas.

Back when i was in school we had truant officers. In my school he was a city police officer. In schools outside the city limits, a sheriffs deputy was always present. I like the idea of having a "security" officer on site rather than truant officer. You're idea of making them the responsible for security procedures and practices makes good sense to me. Rather than add an additional salary, simply upgrade the existing salary from the truant officer to security officer.
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      12-19-2012, 10:23 PM   #222
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Just need a version of Arnold in kindergarten cop in every school....
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      12-20-2012, 02:24 AM   #223
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I'm all for giving teachers the right to carry in school. It doesn't force them to do it, it just gives them the right they should have anyway to protect themselves.

After all schools are a gun free zone right? We all see how well that works out.


And wow, every AR near me is sold out of every gun store.
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      12-20-2012, 07:03 AM   #224
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better idea, build the schools to be physically better with security. Bullet proof glass and magnetically locked doors when a duck and cover alarm goes off. The idea of having a security guard is good, but after a few months of nothing happening complacency will kick in and they will be useless. Physical security would be cheaper in the long run and you have less risk of collateral damage from a complacent security guard accidentally shooting an innocent kid in the background.
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      12-20-2012, 08:14 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotorocious View Post
I'm all for giving teachers the right to carry in school. It doesn't force them to do it, it just gives them the right they should have anyway to protect themselves.
The answer to gun problems is not more guns.
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      12-20-2012, 08:30 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotorocious View Post
I'm all for giving teachers the right to carry in school. It doesn't force them to do it, it just gives them the right they should have anyway to protect themselves.

After all schools are a gun free zone right? We all see how well that works out.


And wow, every AR near me is sold out of every gun store.
The chances of having an accident with guns within the classroom will be WAY too high if teachers can carry weapons within the classroom.

This isn't war for God's sake. Why is the USA the only country with that much problem? You guys need to see what is happening and having more guns is increasing the risk for more accidents and "on the spot" killings. Also, no offence, but the amount of incompetent in the USA is quite high. Giving weapons like it was a pair of underwear is just increasing the risks.

Last edited by abisson; 12-20-2012 at 09:07 AM..
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      12-20-2012, 08:36 AM   #227
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coming from another country this all sounds very strange to me..

so eventually it all comes down to give everybody a gun to protect from each other.. its like a wild west movie. next thing is standing in the streets shooting each other..
and when everybody has a gun then its who has more/bigger/better.. sounds like a recipe for destruction if you ask me..

eventually only one that wins in that situation is gun manufacturers who lets face it make millions from "terrorizong" civiliants. terrorizing as in spread fear that everybody is out to get them.
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      12-20-2012, 08:49 AM   #228
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I see a common point being missed by some people in here. I don't think anyone is saying that we should arm every teacher without exception. I think that is quite an exaggeration. Rotorocious brought it up, but obviously the point was missed again...

What is being proposed, at least in this thread and the couple others floating around, is allowing those teachers who already have concealed carry permits to carry them while on their jobs. They already own the firearms and have probably shown that they are responsible and educated firearms owners/operators just by having that permit/license.

I don't think anyone is talking about forcing some young elementary school teacher, who has never even seen a gun in real life, to take a gun in their hands and be forced to handle it properly while doing their job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abisson View Post
The chances of having an accident with guns within the classroom will be WAY too high if teachers can carry weapons within the classroom.

This isn't war for God's sake. Why is the USA the only country with that much problem? You guys need to see what is happening and having more guns is increasing the risk for more accidents and "on the spot" killings. Also, no offence, but the USA is one of the dumbest nation in the world (this was proven recently). Giving weapons like it was a pair of underwear is just increasing the risks.
Yea... You are way out in left field... I'd also like to see the proof where the USA is the dumbest nation in the world. You can't even properly comprehend the post you quoted...

Edit: Sorry, but I did take offense to that. I've been all over the world, I know a few languages, and not everyone fits into the 'Murica stereotype.
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Last edited by Templar; 12-20-2012 at 09:00 AM..
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      12-20-2012, 09:02 AM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
I see a common point being missed by some people in here. I don't think anyone is saying that we should arm every teacher without exception. I think that is quite an exaggeration. Rotorocious brought it up, but obviously the point was missed again...

What is being proposed, at least in this thread and the couple others floating around, is allowing those teachers who already have concealed carry permits to carry them while on their jobs. They already own the firearms and have probably shown that they are responsible and educated firearms owners/operators just by having that permit/license.

I don't think anyone is talking about forcing some young elementary school teacher, who has never even seen a gun in real life, to take a gun in their hands and be forced to handle it properly while doing their job.



Yea... You are way out in left field... I'd also like to see the proof where the USA is the dumbest nation in the world. You can't even properly comprehend the post you quoted...
Actually I am more right-centered than anything. I wouldn't vote Republican if I was in the US because of their opinions on same sex marriage and abortion. But I support (mostly) the rest of their opinions. Plus, Romney would have been an incompetent President, but that is a different story.

Anyways the quote was "I'm all for giving teachers the right to carry in school. It doesn't force them to do it, it just gives them the right they should have anyway to protect themselves.".

I clearly understand this quote. It means teachers SHOULD BE GIVING, IF THEY WANTED, the right to carry guns with them to protect themselves. You are better off having a secured school, with magnetic doors and so on, than allowing people to carry guns within a classroom full of kids. The more people in circulation with a gun increases the risk for any accidents. Same as cars... They were way less accidents 60 years ago on the roads than today. Obviously, because more cars are in circulation. Same thing will happen if more guns are in circulation, especially within places like schools and so on.
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      12-20-2012, 09:07 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abisson View Post
Actually I am more right-centered than anything. I wouldn't vote Republican if I was in the US because of their opinions on same sex marriage and abortion. But I support (mostly) the rest of their opinions. Plus, Romney would have been an incompetent President, but that is a different story.

Anyways the quote was "I'm all for giving teachers the right to carry in school. It doesn't force them to do it, it just gives them the right they should have anyway to protect themselves.".

I clearly understand this quote. It means teachers SHOULD BE GIVING, IF THEY WANTED, the right to carry guns with them to protect themselves. You are better off having a secured school, with magnetic doors and so on, than allowing people to carry guns within a classroom full of kids. The more people in circulation with a gun increases the risk for any accidents. Same as cars... They were way less accidents 60 years ago on the roads than today. Obviously, because more cars are in circulation. Same thing will happen if more guns are in circulation, especially within places like schools and so on.
Read my whole post.

They are suggesting to let those who already own the guns and have concealed carry permits the ability to extend the right they have already earned into the school. The same standards would apply. You have to legally own the firearm and have a permit to carry it, just as you do on the street outside of the school. You're still missing the point. We're not saying that any teacher can just bring a gun to school now... The people being referring to already own guns...
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      12-20-2012, 09:52 AM   #231
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End of the day, the status quo isn't working. Arming teachers won't solve the problem although it may deter some crime. A hard look has to be taken as to why these sort of things happen, why so much violence, etc. Is it religion, values, hollywood...who knows?

I do believe that hanging on to an amendment written in large part due to the Revolutionary War needs some tweaking to fit into todays society. All sides are going to have to flex a bit to make it work.
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      12-20-2012, 09:59 AM   #232
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Instead of arming all the teachers, lets just say we did. I wonder if another incident would happen if it was published that all teachers will begin mandatory firearms training and that every teacher will be armed in their classroom, only they aren't. You could go one step further and install something, like I mentioned a few pages back, that looks like it has a handgun in it so that kids actually think there is a gun.

For those of you who don't read the entire thread my previous idea was to install a small safe big enough for a handgun and magazine under the teacher's desk. Teachers would not be able to open the safe and it could only be opened in the event of an emergency when a specific alarm is sounded or a competent authority remotely opens them. Obviously if you have handled firearms and have every tried to teach someone to shoot that has never shot before you would know that not everyone knows what they are doing and may think this is a bad idea. NO SHIT, I'm not saying 50yr old Mrs. Smith who has never touched a gun in her life should be given firearm with no training. Only teachers who volunteer for a specially designed course would be given the guns. You could make the course a couple of months long and make it an hour or 2 after school with plenty of range time.
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      12-20-2012, 10:09 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate4641 View Post
Instead of arming all the teachers, lets just say we did. I wonder if another incident would happen if it was published that all teachers will begin mandatory firearms training and that every teacher will be armed in their classroom, only they aren't. You could go one step further and install something, like I mentioned a few pages back, that looks like it has a handgun in it so that kids actually think there is a gun.

For those of you who don't read the entire thread my previous idea was to install a small safe big enough for a handgun and magazine under the teacher's desk. Teachers would not be able to open the safe and it could only be opened in the event of an emergency when a specific alarm is sounded or a competent authority remotely opens them. Obviously if you have handled firearms and have every tried to teach someone to shoot that has never shot before you would know that not everyone knows what they are doing and may think this is a bad idea. NO SHIT, I'm not saying 50yr old Mrs. Smith who has never touched a gun in her life should be given firearm with no training. Only teachers who volunteer for a specially designed course would be given the guns. You could make the course a couple of months long and make it an hour or 2 after school with plenty of range time.
This is how I imagined it too. The teacher obviously wouldn't need to carry it around on their hip. I still think it'd be a better idea to pull additional taxes to pay for a police officer to always be on duty. The schools near me always have an officer on duty, and I live in one of safest areas in the country.
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      12-20-2012, 10:35 AM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Augenbrauezug View Post
This is how I imagined it too. The teacher obviously wouldn't need to carry it around on their hip. I still think it'd be a better idea to pull additional taxes to pay for a police officer to always be on duty. The schools near me always have an officer on duty, and I live in one of safest areas in the country.
This is how it is around me as well. I can't remember a time that all of the schools in my safe little town of 10K didn't have 1 cop in every building. I'm happy to see my tax doll hairs go towards this as it has prevented several incidents that have started. Nothing to this extent, but still prevented anything that could have made schools less safe for others (knives, pellet guns, etc).

I know that in my community that when somebody is let into the building they are let in by the officer that is stationed at that school as well.
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      12-20-2012, 11:03 AM   #235
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Guys, I hope you realize there will be a segment of the population (fairly sizable) that would go bonkers with the idea of arming teachers. I agree with the principle, but can only imagine the reaction.
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      12-20-2012, 11:19 AM   #236
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Guys, I hope you realize there will be a segment of the population (fairly sizable) that would go bonkers with the idea of arming teachers. I agree with the principle, but can only imagine the reaction.
Oh, they undoubtably will. These people also have most likely never touched a gun before in their lives. Sadly this is part of the problem. A lot of people, most even, who are anti-gun have never safely been around guns. My mother for example refuses to allow me to keep an unloaded gun at home (I'm in the military and stationed over seas). I explained it would be locked in a small safe with a trigger lock and no ammo would be kept in the house, but she still thinks it will cause some kind of accident.
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      12-20-2012, 12:05 PM   #237
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Well I get where you are coming from, but to me that's like if the someone said I had to give up my BMW for a Toyota hybrid, because I didn't need the speed etc. I would be upset either way. And I actually don't think that it's fair to say that no one needs an ar15, why not have the best home defense.

Check out this guy, if those guys were trying to break into my house I would want my AR not my pistol!


I would have brought out the .50 Bmg and disabled the car. Lol
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      12-20-2012, 12:32 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotorocious View Post
I'm all for giving teachers the right to carry in school. It doesn't force them to do it, it just gives them the right they should have anyway to protect themselves.
The answer to gun problems is not more guns.
Neither is taking them away from responsible gun owners
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      12-20-2012, 12:56 PM   #239
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Quote:
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Neither is taking them away from responsible gun owners
Depends on how you define responsible.

Was Adam Lanza's mother acting as a responsible gun owner have multiple firearms accessible in the house with an unstable child under the same roof? I think not.
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      12-20-2012, 12:59 PM   #240
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Depends on how you define responsible.

Was Adam Lanza's mother acting as a responsible gun owner have multiple firearms accessible in the house with an unstable child under the same roof? I think not.
No, because she didn't have her firearms properly stored. SHE was not a responsible gun owner and does not represent the rest of population that owns firearms.
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      12-20-2012, 01:05 PM   #241
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
Depends on how you define responsible.

Was Adam Lanza's mother acting as a responsible gun owner have multiple firearms accessible in the house with an unstable child under the same roof? I think not.
No, because she didn't have her firearms properly stored. SHE was not a responsible gun owner and does not represent the rest of population that owns firearms.
Bingo.

I also would have disowned and institutionalized that fucker before this ever could have been an issue.
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      12-20-2012, 01:29 PM   #242
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She brought an unstable child to the range too and taught him how to shoot.
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