RS3, 1M, M2, Focus RS, other?

[redux]

Originally Posted by kprocivic

I get that I'm just not sure why throw the rs in that league when base prices are at least 20k different. I'll use two cars outside the poll. That's like comparing a STI to a cayman.

The RS is well placed on that list. It's going to take a lot of talent to hang with the average joe driving one of those things. It's going to have but of a gtr effect (you know, that guy was slow last month in his hoosier sod gutted Z06 is now putting consistently fast lap time in his stock GTR) and punch well above it's weight in terms of speed.

[k2skier]

Originally Posted by lowbudgethero

some of us don't really care about the class of car and only require a supportive seat, performance, and meeting the bare minimum requirements of practicality

to me if the price and performance is similar i'm going to take a look at it

Is OP going to keep the mazdaspeed 3? If so, then I would probably only consider the 1M or M2

Agreed - How it drives and the power to weight ratio is king to me, not the price point.

The Speed3 is great (minus some torque steer) and will find a great new home when I decide to move on. I am surprised and how few I see and love the comradery that comes with it when you meet another owner or see them on the road.

Originally Posted by kprocivic

I get that I'm just not sure why throw the rs in that league when base prices are at least 20k different. I'll use two cars outside the poll. That's like comparing a STI to a cayman.

I believe that one should be able to get a great drivers car at a number of price points. So price doesn’t define class for me, but everyone is different.

Originally Posted by redux

Heavy rain. I had a rear tire hit a some standing water while I was changing lanes on the Freeway; it lead to 200 yards of the most spectacular steering wheel work I've ever done. That short wheel base requires quick hands .

I'd take the focus over the RS3. I can't justify a $50,000+ VW golf.

In general the RS3 sounds great, totally understand on the 50k issue, and there are a couple of details that make me pause on the RS3…transmission (likely to be auto only) and unknown body styling (e.g. will it be different enough from the S3 or A3 to be truly unique or just a little bit).
I believe we get more regular rain rather than heavy rain. I spent a couple of years in on the East Coast and experienced heavy rain (whoa!) and if I had to drive in that in a regular basis I could see the concern…

Originally Posted by craina

Maybe if the RS3 was going to be a hatch instead of sedan that would make things closer. I had a TTRS for a while and that 5cyl is so unique and punchy. That said, Haldex awd is not exciting at all and it sounds like Ford's system in the RS allows a lot more fun.

The engine is the x factor for the RS3 and from the sounds of it the new version that is in the TTRS will be in the RS3.
Hatch vs. Sedan – while I do have a preference for a little extra utility from a hatchback, I’m an equal opportunity driver.

Originally Posted by nachob

For daily, I would get M2. It is a really nice car that you would love and cherish for a long time. It does everything the 1M can do and in some cases better. I think the 1M is a special car for different reasons..like it's history, option of focused cockpit, no comfort buttons, etc etc but when you have a special car, there is a burden. I tend to take extra care of the 1M and I stress more. While the M2 is a "better" car, it is not really special to me. It's cockpit is just like every other BMW today, it has fake sound, no oil gauge, comfort mode, etc. but this is a good thing if you want a daily driver.

You won't sweat it as much. If you wreck it, you get another one. 1Ms are much harder to replace and if you were a huge fan of how special the car is, you probably wouldn't be doing a poll. : ) I ran into a guy at a Cars and Coffee that basically blurted out M2 is a better car the instant he found out a 1M and he was frustrated because he was trying to convince his friend that really wanted a 1M and couldn't understand why he really wanted 1M. That guy's friend should get the 1M. I hope that helps!

Ha! I have always gotten in trouble for parking away from cars and or at the edge of the lots. Sooo I think I am pretty well set there.
Fan? – you could call me a fan of cars in general and have followed the 1M and a number of other cars from announce to build and post (M2 reveal was interesting to watch as was the Tesla Model 3). As you can imagine the ones that linger are the driver’s cars. Main reason I didn’t jump onto the 1M train initially was our oldest son was in back facing seat, expected another would join the fam, and couldn’t imagine at 6’ that having back facing seats behind me would be comfortable/workable.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by k2skier

Agreed - How it drives and the power to weight ratio is king to me, not the price point.

The Speed3 is great (minus some torque steer) and will find a great new home when I decide to move on. I am surprised and how few I see and love the comradery that comes with it when you meet another owner or see them on the road.


I believe that one should be able to get a great drivers car at a number of price points. So price doesn’t define class for me, but everyone is different.


In general the RS3 sounds great, totally understand on the 50k issue, and there are a couple of details that make me pause on the RS3…transmission (likely to be auto only) and unknown body styling (e.g. will it be different enough from the S3 or A3 to be truly unique or just a little bit).
I believe we get more regular rain rather than heavy rain. I spent a couple of years in on the East Coast and experienced heavy rain (whoa!) and if I had to drive in that in a regular basis I could see the concern…


The engine is the x factor for the RS3 and from the sounds of it the new version that is in the TTRS will be in the RS3.
Hatch vs. Sedan – while I do have a preference for a little extra utility from a hatchback, I’m an equal opportunity driver.


Ha! I have always gotten in trouble for parking away from cars and or at the edge of the lots. Sooo I think I am pretty well set there.
Fan? – you could call me a fan of cars in general and have followed the 1M and a number of other cars from announce to build and post (M2 reveal was interesting to watch as was the Tesla Model 3). As you can imagine the ones that linger are the driver’s cars. Main reason I didn’t jump onto the 1M train initially was our oldest son was in back facing seat, expected another would join the fam, and couldn’t imagine at 6’ that having back facing seats behind me would be comfortable/workable.

K2skier, this is one of the absolutely best and most thorough writeups I have ever seen on the topic. It is absolutely perfect and i believe it will help you.

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2016/05/04...vs-the-bmw-1m/

[k2skier]

Originally Posted by nachob

K2skier, this is one of the absolutely best and most thorough writeups I have ever seen on the topic. It is absolutely perfect and i believe it will help you.

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2016/05/04...vs-the-bmw-1m/

Interesting write up and definitely helps - thanks.


Couple of co-workers have a few cars noted (Golf R and an M235). The Golf R was ok, generally not my cup of tea, and have only gotten a chance to peek inside the M235 to date. It'll be interesting to go for a ride and poke around in as size looks to be similar (main diff seems to be ~1" of rear leg room).

[Nick65]

I had an rs3 and sold it after just 6mths. Unbelievably quick and practical. But dull, both in terms of driving feel and looks. I was also disappointed by the sound (lack of). And mpg was ridiculous, even when taking it easy. I haven't driven one but i suspect the S3 is a much better value option.

The focus RS is likely a great car, but i drove the prior version and the build quality was really poor. It also felt very slow compared to my 135.

I'm a big golf fan and as someone on this thread suggested, a golfR ticks most of the boxes. I test drove a couple and it just didn't feel as much fun as i'd hoped. The sound (in race mode) is simply epic. The other -ve for me was the looks,,can't put my finger on it, but the golf gti looks better somehow.

A 135coupe, or the scary version - 1M is actually very practical, given the seats fold down and the boot anyway is very large. If you want something individual, that's not generic go for the 1M. Other than that, the M2 is a good value baby m4.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by k2skier

Interesting write up and definitely helps - thanks.


Couple of co-workers have a few cars noted (Golf R and an M235). The Golf R was ok, generally not my cup of tea, and have only gotten a chance to peek inside the M235 to date. It'll be interesting to go for a ride and poke around in as size looks to be similar (main diff seems to be ~1" of rear leg room).

2 has slightly more rear legroom but less headroom. My head touched tear of 2. I'm 5'10. 1 series. Slightly less legroom but lots of rear headroom. Pick your poison. Manual seats in 1 series make for faster access once you get used to manual memory pricess

[k2skier]

Originally Posted by nachob

2 has slightly more rear legroom but less headroom. My head touched tear of 2. I'm 5'10. 1 series. Slightly less legroom but lots of rear headroom. Pick your poison. Manual seats in 1 series make for faster access once you get used to manual memory pricess

Definitely a personal preference at that point, but I thought that the 1M had power/electric seats. Am I crazy on this one?

[k2skier]

Originally Posted by Nick65

I had an rs3 and sold it after just 6mths. Unbelievably quick and practical. But dull, both in terms of driving feel and looks. I was also disappointed by the sound (lack of). And mpg was ridiculous, even when taking it easy. I haven't driven one but i suspect the S3 is a much better value option.

The focus RS is likely a great car, but i drove the prior version and the build quality was really poor. It also felt very slow compared to my 135.

I'm a big golf fan and as someone on this thread suggested, a golfR ticks most of the boxes. I test drove a couple and it just didn't feel as much fun as i'd hoped. The sound (in race mode) is simply epic. The other -ve for me was the looks,,can't put my finger on it, but the golf gti looks better somehow.

A 135coupe, or the scary version - 1M is actually very practical, given the seats fold down and the boot anyway is very large. If you want something individual, that's not generic go for the 1M. Other than that, the M2 is a good value baby m4.

Thanks for the broad perspective across most of the cars (agreed on the golf R despite expecting it to be one to hit the mark) and jealous that you've experienced both the previous RS and RS3 . Sounds like there are some subtle things that made the difference for you with the bmw.

[craina]

Originally Posted by k2skier

Definitely a personal preference at that point, but I thought that the 1M had power/electric seats. Am I crazy on this one?

Some do

[nachob]

Originally Posted by k2skier

Definitely a personal preference at that point, but I thought that the 1M had power/electric seats. Am I crazy on this one?

Yes. Well not really crazy. But most 1Ms came with electric seats and all NaV 1Ms except for a few accidental ones like ///BYU's had electric seats which is why you hear the high seating position in older reviews. About 20% of US 1Ms were ordered without the premium package which we call strippers here and they had manual seats and manual folding mirrors as well as no parking sensor holes in the bumper. Sadly most 1Ms were ordered with Nav and all the extra stuff that came with it. Strippers are much less common.

Now most people don't care about saving weight of motors on seats and mirrors and hard drive and extra stuff since they say it's not much although no one has actually weighed a stripper and loaded 1M on the same scale however there are other benefits to the stripper. They are the most rare, lightest and purest form of the 1M. You also get a real cupholder and no idrive crap. The seats go much lower for a better seating position and extra helmet room and they quickly slide forward to let kids in the backseat. I tested this with two 135i's before buying my 1M because I love power seat memory. So I went to dealership and sat in power seat 1 series and manual seat one. Then I noticed the high seating position which made me set the seat bottom parallel to ground so I could comfortably work pedals but this made me feel like I would slide forward during high braking and I felt seat cushion behind my knees. The I sat manual seats. A bit of pain to adjust at first but once set I was able to go lower and seat bottom was lower in rear which felt more natural and tucked in. Next I tried putting kids in back seat. Both seat-backs tilt forward quickly with a handle release but not enough room for kids to not kick and scratch the seats and leather as they try to get out. On power seats you also have to push an electric switch on top of the seat to sloooooowly move them forward so they can get out without tripping or damaging the car. Then after they get out you have push the button again to to sloooooowly slide the seat back in place. This was not going to work because I drop the kids off every day and seemed forever to do this. The manual seats fold forward and slide forward in one fell swoop. I one second! Then the kids jump out then you slide the seat base back into the exact previous position in another second. 2 second operation vs two minute operation on power seats. Now it took a few times to train the wife to slide the seat back into position with the seat back tilted forward until it reaches its memory position. The tendency was to pull the seat back first which locks it in the most forward position and you have to reset it all over again but now even my 8 year old knows how to do it. That is the only drawback. Once I have had someone that didn't know get out of the back seat and pull the backrest first instead of base first and I had to reset position.

Another advantage is that the no-nav interior stands out in contrast to modern interiors. It looks classically beautiful and at night all your focus is on the instrument cluster no glowing screens looking back at you and since these are out of warranty less idrive and electronic crap to fail since most extended warrantys don't cover radio and infotainment stuff.

I don't care about values because most people prefer all the infotainment stuff so values will be the same but there are so few strippers that they will be sought after years down the road as they already stand apart from all contemporary offerings. Excuse me for beating a dead horse but here are pics of contemporary interior cockpits vs 1M classic cockpit.

[k2skier]

Originally Posted by nachob

Yes. Well not really crazy. But most 1Ms came with electric seats and all NaV 1Ms except for a few accidental ones like ///BYU's had electric seats which is why you hear the high seating position in older reviews. About 20% of US 1Ms were ordered without the premium package which we call strippers here and they had manual seats and manual folding mirrors as well as no parking sensor holes in the bumper. Sadly most 1Ms were ordered with Nav and all the extra stuff that came with it. Strippers are much less common.

Now most people don't care about saving weight of motors on seats and mirrors and hard drive and extra stuff since they say it's not much although no one has actually weighed a stripper and loaded 1M on the same scale however there are other benefits to the stripper. They are the most rare, lightest and purest form of the 1M. You also get a real cupholder and no idrive crap. The seats go much lower for a better seating position and extra helmet room and they quickly slide forward to let kids in the backseat. I tested this with two 135i's before buying my 1M because I love power seat memory. So I went to dealership and sat in power seat 1 series and manual seat one. Then I noticed the high seating position which made me set the seat bottom parallel to ground so I could comfortably work pedals but this made me feel like I would slide forward during high braking and I felt seat cushion behind my knees. The I sat manual seats. A bit of pain to adjust at first but once set I was able to go lower and seat bottom was lower in rear which felt more natural and tucked in. Next I tried putting kids in back seat. Both seat-backs tilt forward quickly with a handle release but not enough room for kids to not kick and scratch the seats and leather as they try to get out. On manual seats you also have to push an electric switch on top of the seat to sloooooowly move them forward so they can get out without tripping or damaging the car. Then after they get out you have push the button again to to sloooooowly slide the seat back in place. This was not going to work because I drop the kids off every day and seemed forever to do this. The manual seats fold forward and slide forward in one fell swoop. I one second! Then the kids jump out then you slide the seat base back into the exact previous position in another second. 2 second operation vs two minute operation on power seats. Now it took a few times to train the wife to slide the seat back into position with the seat back tilted forward until it reaches its memory position. The tendency was to pull the seat back first which locks it in the most forward position and you have to reset it all over again but now even my 8 year old knows how to do it. That is the only drawback. Once I have had someone that didn't know get out of the back seat and pull the backrest first instead of base first and I had to reset position.

Another advantage is that the no-nav interior stands out in contrast to modern interiors. It looks classically beautiful and at night all your focus is on the instrument cluster no glowing screens looking back at you and since these are out of warranty less idrive and electronic crap to fail since most extended warrantys don't cover radio and infotainment stuff.

I don't care about values because most people prefer all the infotainment stuff so values will be the same but there are so few strippers that they will be sought after years down the road as they already stand apart from all contemporary offerings. Excuse me for beating a dead horse but here are pics of contemporary interior cockpits vs 1M classic cockpit.

I've never been a nav fan (generally don't see value in it being attached to a car - I like how most stow themselves away so that it is out of sight, but from seeing pics the 1M didn't appear to do that), didn't notice the proper cup holder trade off, but heated seats on the other hand are a huge plus. Did the less optioned one's get heated seats or was that only ones w/ nav?

That said, if I head this way I would look for a car with the best history and not worry about options (there or not) as a key.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by k2skier

I've never been a nav fan (generally don't see value in it being attached to a car - I like how most stow themselves away so that it is out of sight, but from seeing pics the 1M didn't appear to do that), didn't notice the proper cup holder trade off, but heated seats on the other hand are a huge plus. Did the less optioned one's get heated seats or was that only ones w/ nav?

That said, if I head this way I would look for a car with the best history and not worry about options (there or not) as a key.

Heated seats were a standalone option and many got those on strippers. I have a Canadian spec stripper now and heated seats came standard on all Canadian 1Ms. Being in San Diego I couldn't justify adding butt warmers to a sports car when it's 80 degrees year round. I use the cup holder one million times more than i use nav. O have attached a 135i PIC but it's the same thing for reference. I threw away the crappy spill-all-over-the-place cup holder that was really invented for the I-Drive cars. Not needed here.

[k2skier]

Originally Posted by nachob

Heated seats were a standalone option and many got those on strippers. I have a Canadian spec stripper now and heated seats came standard on all Canadian 1Ms. Being in San Diego I couldn't justify adding butt warmers to a sports car when it's 80 degrees year round. I use the cup holder one million times more than i use nav. O have attached a 135i PIC but it's the same thing for reference. I threw away the crappy spill-all-over-the-place cup holder that was really invented for the I-Drive cars. Not needed here.

Ha! In SD I couldn't imagine ever using heated seats (so nice down there), but in the PACNW I'd use them 7-9 months out of the year . Good to know that they were stand alone option.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by k2skier

Ha! In SD I couldn't imagine ever using heated seats (so nice down there), but in the PACNW I'd use them 7-9 months out of the year . Good to know that they were stand alone option.

Yup. You could have toasty buns and warm coffee in your cup holder and a nice quick-ratio hydraulic steering linked wheel in your hands which is vital to keeping the 1M pointing straight in wet weather!

[k2skier]

Originally Posted by nachob

Yup. You could have toasty buns and warm coffee in your cup holder and a nice quick-ratio hydraulic steering linked wheel in your hands which is vital to keeping the 1M pointing straight in wet weather!

Sounds to good to be true...we'll see

[champignon]

Originally Posted by craina

Some do

I think the great majority of 1-Series vehicles, including 1Ms, and other than extremely basic 128i cars, came with power seats. I like the power seats personally. The only downside I see to them is that something might break in the mechanism ultimately, necessitating an expensive repair. This was the case with E-36 vehicles, at least, and the offending part, a plastic gear wheel, was not available as a standalone part other than in aftermarket form, often necessitating an expensive fix. I don't know if the 1-Series vehicles with power seats will prove to have a similar Achilles Heel, over time.

The Nav is probably a slight negative, but would not be a deal killer for me. Out of my three, 1-Series vehicles, my 135i coupe does have Nav. I spent $50 to update the Nav files with a forum participant who sells those upgrades, and this renders the system somewhat useful, although nowhere near as intuitive to use as your basic Garmin, and lacking some features. It is also a bit on the ugly side. Not a deal killer with a car that is otherwise desirable, but not a clear cut plus, either.

[m cpe]

When the snow and winter blues return, the RS will be the perfect DD and allow the 1 M to safely hibernate. AWD and a manual tranny are no longer offered by BMW.

[COChris]

I stopped to get gas yesterday next to a new red RS3. He couldn't stop staring at the 1M. I just pumped my gas.

[k2skier]

Originally Posted by COChris

I stopped to get gas yesterday next to a new red RS3. He couldn't stop staring at the 1M. I just pumped my gas.

how did it look and were you there to hear it drive off?

[ORA]

Originally Posted by COChris

I stopped to get gas yesterday next to a new red RS3. He couldn't stop staring at the 1M. I just pumped my gas.

you mean S3 right? The RS3 hasn't come to the US yet. It's out in Europe as a 5 door sportback but will only come to the US in sedan form next year.

I find Audi design to be very disappointing these days. No aggression, no risk taking.

[COChris]

Originally Posted by ORA

you mean S3 right? The RS3 hasn't come to the US yet. It's out in Europe as a 5 door sportback but will only come to the US in sedan form next year.

I find Audi design to be very disappointing these days. No aggression, no risk taking.

Oh yeah S3

[COChris]

Originally Posted by k2skier

how did it look and were you there to hear it drive off?

It was pretty unexciting across the board