Camber plate vs no camber plate

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by TheRuss

Yikes, you guys are brave! Thanks Kgolf for the photos. What wheels are on the car in the photo of the strut? They look black, so possibly not the Arc-8s?

Do you think a 3mm spacer would make me clear the strut, or is there likely to be enough flex in the components to still make me rub? Here's a photo of my strut clearance (or lack thereof):




Although from the two marks on the strut I'm not sure if it's just the little hairs on the tyre hitting the strut? It makes a noise when I brake, but I'm half inclined to think it's my new grooved brake discs. Will try braking hard later with my winters on and see if it still makes the noise.

On the Hyper Black ARC8s, the inner barrel is black, so those are indeed my ARC8s with 245 tires.

IMO, I'd go 5mm if you can, you don't need to get hub centric ones, but I don't know if 3mm can clear the strut under a high corner load

[fe1rx]

Originally Posted by TheRuss

Although from the two marks on the strut I'm not sure if it's just the little hairs on the tyre hitting the strut? It makes a noise when I brake, but I'm half inclined to think it's my new grooved brake discs. Will try braking hard later with my winters on and see if it still makes the noise.

Very interesting. The marks do seem to line up with the hairs on the tire and not with the widest point of the tire. Perhaps try shaving the hairs with a razor knife and then put some masking tape on the strut tube and see if anything still rubs.

There will be some small deflection in the hub, strut tube and wheel itself so who knows exactly how much clearance is enough to guarantee zero rub? Also an impact wave traveling through the tire may be enough to bring the tire into contact with the strut tube.

There doesn't seem to be any mark on the tire sidewall though, making this rub "minor" (I didn't think I would say that about a tire rubbing a strut tube) and I think your hair idea is worth further investigating. You may have actually achieved a really good amount of clearance and any spacer you add will make things worse on the fender side.

[TheRuss]

Exactly. I will do some hard braking on the way home and see if I get the grinding noise that I first thought was the tyres rubbing. Then if I still have the noise I will shave the hairs off like you say and do the masking tape thing, or just rub the black marks off before I put the wheels back on and see if they return. I presumed that the two lines were too thick to be the hairs, but then considered that the hairs around the whole tyre were likely pointing at different angles, which could cause the thicker mark.

At the moment, I have some 3M clear stone chip protection film protecting the strut paint from damage.

Then I'll just need to solve the rears, but I think space is less of an issue there and a 3mm spacer could potentially solve that. Although my rear wheels won't even rotate when I jack the rear off the ground because they touch the fender liner so much. The wheels of course don't touch once they''re on the ground, but I'd like it if they didn't touch at all.

[TheRuss]

Actually, looking at the two marks, the lower one looks larger than the highest one, so I'm wondering if part of the tyre is contacting it there as well. In the photos it looks pretty close at that lower line...

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by TheRuss

Exactly. I will do some hard braking on the way home and see if I get the grinding noise that I first thought was the tyres rubbing. Then if I still have the noise I will shave the hairs off like you say and do the masking tape thing, or just rub the black marks off before I put the wheels back on and see if they return. I presumed that the two lines were too thick to be the hairs, but then considered that the hairs around the whole tyre were likely pointing at different angles, which could cause the thicker mark.

At the moment, I have some 3M clear stone chip protection film protecting the strut paint from damage.

Then I'll just need to solve the rears, but I think space is less of an issue there and a 3mm spacer could potentially solve that. Although my rear wheels won't even rotate when I jack the rear off the ground because they touch the fender liner so much. The wheels of course don't touch once they''re on the ground, but I'd like it if they didn't touch at all.

When I look at the lower rub mark at the brown circle, it sure looks like the sidewall of the tire is rubbing, not the hairs. Since the tire should be flexing and moving, I would say it is definitely possible, both marks come from the sidewall and not the hairs.

What psi are you running on the tires? Maybe, you could try raising the tire pressure and see if the marks shrink in size? I would think the higher pressure would reduce the amount of sidewall flex experienced.

[TheRuss]

I tried this. I checked the pressure and upped it, along with driving careful and the marks perhaps seemed worse if anything. I upped them to around 39psi IIRC.

I'd agree that the lower mark looks like possible sidewall contact, but the upper one seems too thin. Perhaps if I'm only grazing it then a 3mm spacer would be adequate? I don't really want to go buying multiple spacers until I find the right size, but if it's just lightly touching then perhaps 3mm is enough.

Alternatively, I could buy the 3mm and if it's not enough I could buy 5mm and use the 3mm on the rear, or should I keep the rear equally spaced?

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by TheRuss

I tried this. I checked the pressure and upped it, along with driving careful and the marks perhaps seemed worse if anything. I upped them to around 39psi IIRC.

I'd agree that the lower mark looks like possible sidewall contact, but the upper one seems too thin. Perhaps if I'm only grazing it then a 3mm spacer would be adequate? I don't really want to go buying multiple spacers until I find the right size, but if it's just lightly touching then perhaps 3mm is enough.

Alternatively, I could buy the 3mm and if it's not enough I could buy 5mm and use the 3mm on the rear, or should I keep the rear equally spaced?

Spacer size is getting into aesthetics, but personally I think a larger spacer out back looks better. Sets up a more aggressive stance and profile to have more poke in the rear, but that’s just me.

IMO I’d get a 5mm and see what happens up front. If it’s the right amount, great. If it’s “too much”, toss it on the back and put 3mm up front.

Right now I have 5mm all around, I plan to go up to 10mm out back soon for more poke. Either that or go up in tire size a bit, I’m undecided.

[TheRuss]

Yeah, I keep drawing four lines on bits of paper, two of them 3mm apart and then another two 5mm apart, trying to visualise what is too much and what isn't enough. I'm just not sure that 5mm will clear my fenders still.

I guess I'll order a couple of 5mm and see how they look, though it's possible that 3mm all round would be best. I guess I won't know until I try. I might order up a couple of 5mm spacers tonight then.

Oh, and those hub extenders, can they be used on the rear hubs, or not? The website you linked suggested not. I presume they just press fit into the end of the hubs?

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by TheRuss

Yeah, I keep drawing four lines on bits of paper, two of them 3mm apart and then another two 5mm apart, trying to visualise what is too much and what isn't enough. I'm just not sure that 5mm will clear my fenders still.

I guess I'll order a couple of 5mm and see how they look, though it's possible that 3mm all round would be best. I guess I won't know until I try. I might order up a couple of 5mm spacers tonight then.

Oh, and those hub extenders, can they be used on the rear hubs, or not? The website you linked suggested not. I presume they just press fit into the end of the hubs?

Yea the install should take about 5 minutes once the wheels are off. I have no idea why they won’t mount to the rears, but once I get them I’ll let you know why that is not the case.

For the time being I’ll continue to run 225/265 on 8.5/9.5 Arc-8s. But instead of 5mm spacers all around, I’ll go 10mm in the rear, and add another degree of camber up front to help the fenders out. I’ll also probably raise the rear half an inch or so to keep the rake similar (the camber plates add about ¼” to front ride height).

[TheRuss]

Sounds good to me. My front is slightly lower than my rear, so I'd be fine with the height increasing slightly (if i end up needing camber plates).

For now my car is starting like a bag of crap again, so that's another issue I need to figure out *sigh*

[TheRuss]

Ok, so to keep this updated - the grounding sound I had ia still present with my winters on, so must be down to the grooved brakes. Weirdly, it only seems to occur between about 30mph - 20mph as I'm slowing down... Odd.

Anyway, I ordered 5mm spacers and extended hardware for all 4 wheels and should have them tomorrow. I'll fit one side and settle the suspension back down and post photos of the results. Depending on how it looks I'll either try it out for a few days or immediately remove them until I can get the arches rolled.

Out of interest, how difficult is it to fit camber plates if I need to go that route? Would it be a proper garage job, or something I can do on my driveway (sans spring compressors).

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by TheRuss

Ok, so to keep this updated - the grounding sound I had ia still present with my winters on, so must be down to the grooved brakes. Weirdly, it only seems to occur between about 30mph - 20mph as I'm slowing down... Odd.

Anyway, I ordered 5mm spacers and extended hardware for all 4 wheels and should have them tomorrow. I'll fit one side and settle the suspension back down and post photos of the results. Depending on how it looks I'll either try it out for a few days or immediately remove them until I can get the arches rolled.

Out of interest, how difficult is it to fit camber plates if I need to go that route? Would it be a proper garage job, or something I can do on my driveway (sans spring compressors).

Once the struts are pulled it’s not all that “hard”. A bit time consuming and again, you need to pull the struts assuming they are already on the car. But you aren’t splicing atoms or anything crazy.

The Dinan static plates came in yesterday, I’m hoping to have them mounted sometime next week and will report back on how that has alleviated rubbing (hopefully).

[135iam]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

The Dinan static plates came in yesterday, I’m hoping to have them mounted sometime next week and will report back on how that has alleviated rubbing (hopefully).

When I had my dinan plates/M3 arms/and 18.8.5 ARC-8's installed my car had -3.3 front camber on one side and -2.9 on the other, prior to alignment. It was adjusted to -2.5 on both sides. (one side would go down to -2.2 the other wouldnt. Just an FYI, there is some adjustment there.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by 135iam

When I had my dinan plates/M3 arms/and 18.8.5 ARC-8's installed my car had -3.3 front camber on one side and -2.9 on the other, prior to alignment. It was adjusted to -2.5 on both sides. (one side would go down to -2.2 the other wouldnt. Just an FYI, there is some adjustment there.

Yea i'll def need an alignment after installing. I hope it doesn't jack up the toe that much, when I did m3 front arms the toe was absolutely ridiculous. Car tried to kill me driving home every few seconds.

[TheRuss]

Yeah, people report that - how so? Just diving off left and right on bumps?

Yeah, throw up some pics of the camber plates and let me know your thoughts on them. An install guide would be nice, but I won't push my luck! Are spring compressors needed then? Or is there any way to jack the front up and undo the top bolts and let it drop so you can sneak the plate in above? (I doubt it, but it's worth asking.)

I'll put the spacers on this weekend and throw some pics up. They're really nice quality and I got extended bolts all round, including the lockers - from a company here in the UK. I was surprised how light they were and how thin 5mm is. Even after drawing lines on paper, the spacers are still thinner than I was expecting, so I'm glad I didn't bother with 3mm.

[135Pats]

Oh dang these hub extenders are NICE. It's a no brainer for the fronts.

In case you don't have the wheel caps on, they're a nice anodized black finish. Not the bronze finish you see on the website. Good stuff for sure from VAC.

[TheRuss]

Any reason why they couldn't be used on the rear then?

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by TheRuss

Any reason why they couldn't be used on the rear then?

No idea I haven't pulled the rears (no reason to). When I inspect the brakes next week i'll see what the deal is. Obviously there's some good reason why they don't fit on the back.

But there's more room back there, so a 10mm spacer (with a hub lip) is more doable. Up front a 10mm spacer will get you into serious trouble unless you add in a good deal of camber or ride height.

[Pyrat 2]

Russ, maybe I missed it. The pics you showed. What size tires and wheels (with offsets). I'm running 235/40mpss on 18/8.5.45. I tried mounting but not driving 245/35 on the same wheels and had constant rub but light enough to turn the wheels easily by hand. I'd like to install this 245/35 setup on front and would like to know what you had mounted for your pics.

[TheRuss]

Hi HeelToe, my pics are of Pirelli PZero 235/40/18's. Despite being told that the Pirellis run true to size, they seem to be somewhat oversize and bulbous, causing issues. Their actual with is about 240mm wide though, so I think you'll have to find a very "on size" 245 else you'll have issues. Also, it'll definitely have to be a 35 profile. I can't imagine getting a tyre 5mm wider than mine in there with the same profile without a struggle.

[dcaron9999]

I have Ground Control Street camber plates up froint, seto for -3.2* camber. I tried a quick experiment with my rear 255/35R18 RE-11 tires on stock style 261 18x8.5 ET52 RIMS, by installing them in the front (with a 10mm hubcentric spacer), and switched my 225/40R18 RE-11 on stock style 261 18x7.5 ET49 RIMS in the rear. Although my test drive was on the street, I was impressed with tighter turn-in, and noticeable better grip in the front. I threw the car in hard sharp turns and esses to load the suspension and listened for rubbing and got none.

I may buy a used set of style 261's and set my 135i up with a square set of 255/35R18 Extreme Perf tires for dual duty.

[TheRuss]

Thanks dcaron. How do you find the GC plates? I'm looking at possibly getting some, but don't want to make the ride any worse.