[morrisond]

If you read the marketing on the new Turbo six(see link below), BMW itself is saying how superior it is to a V8. Makes me wish that BMW was making an M version of that engine with 400-440 HP and 400 Lbs. of torque rather than the rumoured V8, with 400-440 and 320-350 Lbs of torque for the new M3(I have one on Order). According to BMW itself why would you want a V8 when the 6 is perfectedly balanced is 150 lbs less and better on gas and has no lag.

It will be interesting to see how BMW justifies the new M3 V8. Who knows maybe they are pulling a fast one on us, and BMW's reference to a range of six cyclinder Turbo's means the next M3 will have a Turbo 6. Unlikely as M says they like High revving low torque motors. But they also said they would only do SMG's and manual's are coming this fall in the M5 and M6.

Other than it doesn't meet the M Philosophy(although there is no reason you couldn't build an 8,000 RPM Twin Turbo Straight Six based on the Current M3 Motor), I think I would actually prefer an M version of the 335 motor. The extra Torque would be nice.

Thoughts? Who would prefer an M3 with a turbo Six over an eight? Although if the M3 has a flat plane V8 that would be pretty special as well.

[ALPINE6SPD]

Originally Posted by Ethirtynine

You have the new M3 on order?

Could be. I have a customer who has one on order too. When the options and pricing become available he will pick what he wants and its sticker price. Its very easy actually and he is 2nd on the list.

[E90Fleet]

They said its lighter than a V8 for the same power

But a V8 may be beter for the power the M3 is to produce, and its well known the boss of BMW M Gmbh doesnt like turbos

[330m]

Who wants a damn turbo on their engine?

Give me a properly engineered and tuned NA engine anyday. Anyone can throw on some turbos and say - wow great torque!

Even audi went the NA route with its S4 / RS4 because thats what the buyers and purists want. Not turbos.

[tom333]

no lag

[morrisond]

I would prefer a NA engine as well. I was more just making a tongue in cheek reference to BMW's marketing prowess, claiming no lag on the new turbo six, 150 lbs lighter than an 8, better fuel economy. It makes me wonder what the story will be when the 8 surfaces in the M3.

Yes, I have one on order(colours and options to be choosen later), large deposit and first on the list at BMW Toronto. They are telling me it will be here this time next year.

[voltron1011]

Efficiency... That's it...

Efficency is defined as getting the most possible net power with the least amount of fuel.

When was the last time the M division put efficiency at the top of their checklist? M's are a performance niche car.

[h_curtis]

If I was getting an M3, I would be hoping for a six not an eight. Don't know what the big fascination is with duh, 8 cylinders. I would go for a motor that has less weight and could lead to better handling and a more 50/50 balance. The only reason they are putting an 8 in, is for the Americans that like to tell everyone "I got a V8"... sort of like saying "I got a hemi, duh".

[stressdoc]

Light weight is key for me. That and the inherent balance of the inline 6. So I will be happy with a 335, tuning suspension & brakes, and maybe an LSD, as need be. That said, I will envy you M3 owners.

[voltron1011]

BMW has said that they cannot extract any more power from their 3.2 liter M motor (M54). Unfortuneatly in today's automotive world, that motor just isn't going to cut anymore. That is why M went with a V8. A small one at that...

[gos]

Turbos are awesome at altitude, my wife's WRX with a 2.0L turbo has no problem accelerating while in 5th gear at 11,000', as long as the RPM is above 3000.

NA engines have a lot of performance differences between sea level and altitude. While the Turbo does as well, it doesn't appear nearly as noticable.

[slubu]

Where's the link?

[Garissimo]

I've owned turbo cars my whole driving career (Eclipse, 300ZXtt, SupraTT, Audi S4 2.7tt) and switched to an E39 M5 last year. Even though the adrenaline rush you get when you're on boost is better in a turbo car, the NA engine is a superior all arounder. I love the way it pulls out of low speed corners and the way it growls and snarls as it goes about its business.

However, the upcoming turbo engine in this 335i is unlike any turbo engine I've seen before. The combination of DI technology and tiny little turbos promise instantaneous thrust, better economy and a lighter package - definitely lighter than my M5 which is my only problem with the car.

There are some who say you can't change the laws of physics and that a turbo engine will always have lag, but if anyone can rewrite or bend the laws of physics, it's BMW's engine builders . :rocks:

[voltron1011]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

I've owned turbo cars my whole driving career (Eclipse, 300ZXtt, SupraTT, Audi S4 2.7tt) and switched to an E39 M5 last year. Even though the adrenaline rush you get when you're on boost is better in a turbo car, the NA engine is a superior all arounder. I love the way it pulls out of low speed corners and the way it growls and snarls as it goes about its business.

However, the upcoming turbo engine in this 335i is unlike any turbo engine I've seen before. The combination of DI technology and tiny little turbos promise instantaneous thrust, better economy and a lighter package - definitely lighter than my M5 which is my only problem with the car.

There are some who say you can't change the laws of physics and that a turbo engine will always have lag, but if anyone can rewrite or bend the laws of physics, it's BMW's engine builders . :rocks:

Well written!!! :rocks: I also had my share of T cars... 300zx-TT, Eclipse GSX, Mazda MX-6 GT, etc...

[BMW F22]

I think BMW is going for quality and reliability now. The current M3's engine is all decked out. It's pretty much tuned to the max. Any more than that and it will break down. IMO they're playing it safe by going with a V8 instead of tuning the crap out of an I6.

[maq]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

If I was getting an M3, I would be hoping for a six not an eight. Don't know what the big fascination is with duh, 8 cylinders. I would go for a motor that has less weight and could lead to better handling and a more 50/50 balance. The only reason they are putting an 8 in, is for the Americans that like to tell everyone "I got a V8"... sort of like saying "I got a hemi, duh".

Size is one of the biggest disadvantages of an inline-6 engine. GM's LS pushrod V8s are no bigger than BMW's S50/52/54 I6s. The biggest and most powerful I6 BMW ever made was the 3.8L 340hp S38B38, which made the E34 M5 weigh a whopping 3800lbs, heavier than the V8-powered 540i.

The new M3 requires a 400hp engine that also meets the 100hp/L M standard. Once a straight-six reaches a certian size, the limitations and disadvantages will overrun the benefits and advantages. A 400hp I6 is probably bigger, heavier, lazier, more complicated and more expensive than a 400hp DOHC V8. BMW made the legendary big six for 25 years, they stopped developing it a decade ago for a reason.

A V8 can be just as exciting. Think about the flat crank V8s used in Ferrari's. That said, if you still fancy a big straight-six, buy a TVR Sagaris. That's 400hp from a N/A 4.0L I6 for you, just don't complain about built quality.

[0700700]

they compare it to the 540i not the 550i... big difference

[ska///235i]

is there such thing as....inline 8 or 10 ?

[David328M-Sport]

Originally Posted by 330m

Who wants a damn turbo on their engine?

Give me a properly engineered and tuned NA engine anyday. Anyone can throw on some turbos and say - wow great torque!

Even audi went the NA route with its S4 / RS4 because thats what the buyers and purists want. Not turbos.

I agree, however there is no doubt that BMW did not make the turbo decision lightly.

I would suggest that they would only release such an engine setup when and only when the turbo setup felt like their NA engines. Not one millisecond of lag but LOTS of torque low down, the bane of high revving BMW engines.

I believe that once you were to test drive a BMW turbo engine - the 335 or any future model - you will be very impressed and may not want to return to the NA engine.

BMW did mention that they cannot keep on increasing engine displacement size without compromising on fuel consumption increases forever. Certainly there is scope to overcome this with advances in technologhy and the like, but the turbo engine does sound like a nice setup.

Please remember that the engine and turbos have been designed and manufactured as one, very different in its constuction and materials to the N52, so it's not a turbo bolt on like on some engines as you correctly mention.

Lets give BMW a chance to show what their new engines are like. After all, they are the masters of engines.

[vantage]

Originally Posted by David325Australia

I agree, however there is no doubt that BMW did not make the turbo decision lightly.

I would suggest that they would only release such an engine setup when and only when the turbo setup felt like their NA engines. Not one millisecond of lag but LOTS of torque low down, the bane of high revving BMW engines.

I believe that once you were to test drive a BMW turbo engine - the 335 or any future model - you will be very impressed and may not want to return to the NA engine.

BMW did mention that they cannot keep on increasing engine displacement size without compromising on fuel consumption increases forever. Certainly there is scope to overcome this with advances in technologhy and the like, but the turbo engine does sound like a nice setup.

Please remember that the engine and turbos have been designed and manufactured as one, very different in its constuction and materials to the N52, so it's not a turbo bolt on like on some engines as you correctly mention.

Lets give BMW a chance to show what their new engines are like. After all, they are the masters of engines.

i agree with you in the fact that bmw didn't switch to turbo's likely....they probably have good reasons for doing so. However, a turbo engine, no matter how well made, is nonetheless still a turbo. True there are advantages, such as altitude, cold weather, etc. to turbo's, but personally i wouldn't want the torque in my car to equal the horsepower. That's just wayy to much for me. Afterall, we drive in a city,not on a racetrack. And no matter how well done, the performance cannot perfectly equal a NA engine. Therefore no matter how well done this new N54 engine is, I would pick the current generation M3 engine or regular inline 6, but prefereably the new V8 engine over the turbo one ANYDAY. :rocks:

[David328M-Sport]

Originally Posted by vantage

And no matter how well done, the performance cannot perfectly equal a NA engine. Therefore no matter how well done this new N54 engine is, I would pick the current generation M3 engine or regular inline 6, but prefereably the new V8 engine over the turbo one ANYDAY. :rocks:

Agreed!!! And that is why BMW will probably still have I6 NA engines for a long time into the future.

[maq]

Originally Posted by ska

is there such thing as....inline 8 or 10 ?

Yes, 50's Buick and the original Mercedes SLR.

The sheer mass (especially the length) makes the I8 configuration pointless.