Brakes or LSD

[TimMc]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Thanks mate. I'll be in touch with them soon

I'm up for some good street/track pads too Vinney. See what deal they'll do for two sets. Front only I think I want.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by TimMc

I'm up for some good street/track pads too Vinney. See what deal they'll do for two sets. Front only I think I want.

Hey Tim, was flat out busy so didn't get a chance to call them just yet. Based on my research I'm ruling out a dedicated track pad though. I drive my car mostly on the street so it will take too long to reach minimum operating temp. On paper the MX72 and DS2500 are very similar, similar operating temps and both seem to have good reviews. Edge probably goes to DS2500 as they have E82 fitment and it's been tried and tested on the E82 1M as well. I think the MX72 will need to be custom made and will cost more $$$. I'll still give Centrax a call to see what they can come up with.

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by TimMc

I'm up for some good street/track pads too Vinney. See what deal they'll do for two sets. Front only I think I want.

Originally Posted by BMW86

Hey Tim, was flat out busy so didn't get a chance to call them just yet. Based on my research I'm ruling out a dedicated track pad though. I drive my car mostly on the street so it will take too long to reach minimum operating temp. On paper the MX72 and DS2500 are very similar, similar operating temps and both seem to have good reviews. Edge probably goes to DS2500 as they have E82 fitment and it's been tried and tested on the E82 1M as well. I think the MX72 will need to be custom made and will cost more $$$. I'll still give Centrax a call to see what they can come up with.

DS2500 front only might not be a bad idea. Like I said in the other thread the rears squeal a fair bit. Otherwise they are a good multi purpose pad.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by Nugget

DS2500 front only might not be a bad idea. Like I said in the other thread the rears squeal a fair bit. Otherwise they are a good multi purpose pad.

How are your rears holding up?

[Nugget]

They squeal a lot. I think it is because it is just two pins holding them in and they don't fit quite as well as OEM.
Haven't had a chance to rebed them or pull them out and try reinstalling yet.
Fronts are quiet.

[koastal]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Hey Tim, was flat out busy so didn't get a chance to call them just yet. Based on my research I'm ruling out a dedicated track pad though. I drive my car mostly on the street so it will take too long to reach minimum operating temp. On paper the MX72 and DS2500 are very similar, similar operating temps and both seem to have good reviews. Edge probably goes to DS2500 as they have E82 fitment and it's been tried and tested on the E82 1M as well. I think the MX72 will need to be custom made and will cost more $$$. I'll still give Centrax a call to see what they can come up with.

Vinney, i do at least a 1000klms a week every week. No hardship with these so far.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by Nugget

They squeal a lot. I think it is because it is just two pins holding them in and they don't fit quite as well as OEM.
Haven't had a chance to rebed them or pull them out and try reinstalling yet.
Fronts are quiet.

My stock pads squeal bad, I would hate for the new pads to be worse. Went to the track day with 6000km's left on the pads. After the track day I had 1000km's left

Funny thing is I couldn't stand the brake squeal before the track day, now they are nice and quiet again.

Originally Posted by koastal

Vinney, i do at least a 1000klms a week every week. No hardship with these so far.

That's good to hear Terry, I'll still look into it.
1000km's is insane!

[AussieRacer]

Wanting to decrease racetrack laptimes - LSD vs Brakes.....I'd go neither from reading above, but of course you'd never visit a track without decent pads and higher rated brake fluid.

Spend the upgrade $ on second set of cheap rims and proper track rubber (eg. Yokohama A050s or similar), then get some driver coaching (available free at many Sprint days) and spend the left over $ on visiting the track as often as possible with that setup until you can't get any faster. At that point you'll start feeling the need for suspension upgrades and more camber, before again feeling the need for an LSD or bigger brakes.

[Giveway74]

Originally Posted by AussieRacer

Wanting to decrease racetrack laptimes - LSD vs Brakes.....I'd go neither from reading above, but of course you'd never visit a track without decent pads and higher rated brake fluid.

Spend the upgrade $ on second set of cheap rims and proper track rubber (eg. Yokohama A050s or similar), then get some driver coaching (available free at many Sprint days) and spend the left over $ on visiting the track as often as possible with that setup until you can't get any faster. At that point you'll start feeling the need for suspension upgrades and more camber, before again feeling the need for an LSD or bigger brakes.

+1 to get as fast as you can before mods. That way when you do them, you know how much they are giving you.

For about $150 over a normal trackday at wakefield i did a day with trackschool.com.au

Boz helped me reduce my PB by 2seconds with some guidance around better ways of braking for certain corners. Best lap of the day for me was 1.13.44 on RE002's. I do have a LSD though which was on the car when i bought it as well at the M3 front control arms. I should be able to get into the 12's with a track alignment and a bit more practice but there is not too much left in it relatively stock. Also the brakes are stock and only last 8 laps before they need to take a break. Fluid and pads would fix that as it was a combo of fade and a long pedal

I'd doubt you could spend $150 on any other mod and reduce the lap time on a short track by 2seconds.

Also re brakes. My thoughts are if you are able to keep triggering the ABS then there is no more you can get out of the grip you have by having better brakes. Most tracks have 10-15min sessions and if your brakes last to the end of a session then you're all good. If you're not lasting to the end, then it might be something to think about. Better pads and some 5.1 fluid normally fix that.

Driver training makes everything better no matter the car you're driving
LSD does make road and track driving better.
Brakes can make the track better.

Also i am no expert and just providing my thoughts.

[TimMc]

Originally Posted by Giveway74

+1 to get as fast as you can before mods. That way when you do them, you know how much they are giving you.

For about $150 over a normal trackday at wakefield i did a day with trackschool.com.au

Boz helped me reduce my PB by 2seconds with some guidance around better ways of braking for certain corners. Best lap of the day for me was 1.13.44 on RE002's. I do have a LSD though which was on the car when i bought it as well at the M3 front control arms. I should be able to get into the 12's with a track alignment and a bit more practice but there is not too much left in it relatively stock. Also the brakes are stock and only last 8 laps before they need to take a break. Fluid and pads would fix that as it was a combo of fade and a long pedal

I'd doubt you could spend $150 on any other mod and reduce the lap time on a short track by 2seconds.

Also re brakes. My thoughts are if you are able to keep triggering the ABS then there is no more you can get out of the grip you have by having better brakes. Most tracks have 10-15min sessions and if your brakes last to the end of a session then you're all good. If you're not lasting to the end, then it might be something to think about. Better pads and some 5.1 fluid normally fix that.

Driver training makes everything better no matter the car you're driving
LSD does make road and track driving better.
Brakes can make the track better.

Also i am no expert and just providing my thoughts.

Some pretty good thoughts there Giveaway! I agree to a large extent about the "if you are able to keep triggering the ABS then there is no more you can get out of the grip you have by having better brakes.". I've got new race fluid in & OEM everything else & can get the abs working even after ~8 laps of hard stopping for QR's turn 3. But my pedal goes soft after a few laps & I get a brake warning light on the dash. I've then got little confidence to brake too late. I don't know what's triggering the warning light but I'd like a more consistent pedal.

[MrBlonde]

Circuit racers the world around give the same advice. If the question is "I want to get faster lap times" or "How can I become a better steerer" then good advice.

If it's about having fun modifying your car then it's not.

[Giveway74]

Originally Posted by TimMc

Some pretty good thoughts there Giveaway! I agree to a large extent about the "if you are able to keep triggering the ABS then there is no more you can get out of the grip you have by having better brakes.". I've got new race fluid in & OEM everything else & can get the abs working even after ~8 laps of hard stopping for QR's turn 3. But my pedal goes soft after a few laps & I get a brake warning light on the dash. I've then got little confidence to brake too late. I don't know what's triggering the warning light but I'd like a more consistent pedal.

If you have race fluid and the braking is still good but getting a spongy pedal then my guess would be the rubber lines might be expanding with the heat and braided lines may fix that. Or it could be that the calipers are flexing and then better calipers would be the way to go.

The warning light could be being triggered by the long pedal or temp, not sure though.

[koastal]

Originally Posted by AussieRacer

Wanting to decrease racetrack laptimes - LSD vs Brakes.....I'd go neither from reading above, but of course you'd never visit a track without decent pads and higher rated brake fluid.

Spend the upgrade $ on second set of cheap rims and proper track rubber (eg. Yokohama A050s or similar), then get some driver coaching (available free at many Sprint days) and spend the left over $ on visiting the track as often as possible with that setup until you can't get any faster. At that point you'll start feeling the need for suspension upgrades and more camber, before again feeling the need for an LSD or bigger brakes.

I agree. Had some coaching the other day and was helpful. Also I do as many track days as time allows.
Already have a 2nd set of rims with DZ03 s / braided lines / per rotors / coilovers / tune / d pipe. Hence the question LSD or bbk.

I have dismissed the bbk as a reducer of lap times based on your comments in regard to "triggering abs" as this makes perfect sense.

Not sure whether a LSD would make a any significant difference, based on the times Ive seen 1ms do.

[TimMc]

Originally Posted by Giveway74

If you have race fluid and the braking is still good but getting a spongy pedal then my guess would be the rubber lines might be expanding with the heat and braided lines may fix that. Or it could be that the calipers are flexing and then better calipers would be the way to go.

The warning light could be being triggered by the long pedal or temp, not sure though.

Yeah, it could be the lines flexing. At first I thought it may be the fluid boiling so I changed the fluid, but got the same result.

At the last track day I started with my reservoir full & got some leakage from the lid after each run, presumably due to the fluid overheating and forcing it's way past the lid's seal? Maybe I shouldn't have filled it so high?