Competitors to the coupe/cabrio?

[BForbes]

^^^^Oh my god that car is hideous. i mean must it slope forward again. For Benzes sake that better not be a competitor.

[Brookside]

Oh man Harold...this is the same C-sport coupe MB's been trying to slog for the past coupla years...to little success...with a redesigned front-end.
In person (the earlier model) was an awkward looking design...not a hatch and not a coupe....more like a "C" with it's tail cut-off.
I think they discontinued sales on the earlier model here in the U.S. after offering steep price cuts apparently with few takers.



I think this (Volvo C30) might be competition- not in BMW's handling range-but very nice indeed with numerous options.
Coming to the U.S. in July/007...available in Canada now.

[Brookside]

Originally Posted by LonghornTX

I have driven the A3 and I loved it.

I think this is the real contender- but, typical of Audi...poorly marketed and priced in the U.S.
Quattro (Audi's 4-wheel drive) not available in the turbo-4cyl. model...FWD only-
and the 3.2 V6 available only with with DSG (automatic).

[bryan@mwerks]

Originally Posted by Declan

Anyone ever driven any of the competitors like the A3? Are they nimble sporty cars? Actually I've read lots of good reviews of the GTI so I know that car is good but I'm not much of a hatchback fan.

I've driven both the GTI and the A3 (in 2.0 FSI, 2.0T FSI, and 3.2). The A3 is not very sharp in the handling department. They've intentionally kept that car soft to appeal to an upscale luxury buyer. Even with the 3.2-liter and quattro, it's still not an all-out performance machine.

The GTI is much closer to a BMW in the handling department. Very nimble and sharp, feels very dialed in. Acceleration is good, mostly because of the torque characteristics of the 2.0T. Traction is its biggest enemy though.

Here is a link to our driving experience two years ago in the 120i, A3 2.0 FSI (non-turbo, 150hp) and GTI. I'll be in Geneva again in acouple weeks, and have a 130i (pre-facelift) lined up to drive.

[spudw]

Really nice shots, Bryan. I only showroom tested the A3 and GTI. A3 fell a bit short on a price/materials ratio. Merc B200 is much more upscale feeling for the same price (albeit a very different car).

For the $$, the GTI is a much better deal IMO. Same engine, sharper handling, and not bad looking... The A3 is for soccer moms in denial...

[Brookside]

Originally Posted by spudwest

The A3 is for soccer moms in denial...

Then call me a soccer dad...because it's a sweet car, Spud.
A quick testdrive would've proved it. Not in the driving category of the GTI
or 1-series (I guess) but a very worthy little hatch except for the hi-pricing and limited model configurations.
They are a rarity on the road around here. Too bad.

[spudw]

Day 1 of a week-long test of the Volvo C30. Looks very interesting. Beats the Audi on exterior looks. Price point is reasonable, but they're asking a lot for the sport package. There are a lot of cars I'd look at before this one if I had $40K (as-tested price, $CAD) burning a hole in my pocket. The base 1er presumably won't be able to come in too much higher that the $32K ($CAD) quoted for the base C30 - a presumtion that I think is consistent with most of the predictions to date.

Very little content in this article, but a tonne of photos. Not sue I like the interior, but for hatchback lovers, the exterior is sweet.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/ctc/blog/?p=135



2007 Volvo C30 T5; Day 1
April 10th, 2007 by James Bergeron
Picture Gallery: 2007 Volvo C30 T5
Day 1:

Click Image to Enlarge Today was one the most hectic days I have had in a while. I was a little distracted when I picked up this week’s car — the Volvo C30; I got in and headed straight to my regular day job without even really taking a close look at the car. I had a few errands to run after work which kept me distracted as well.
When I finally took a breath after washing the C30 and headed out to take some pictures before sundown, I sat back and admired. The further away you get from the C30 the more fluid the lines appear and the more distinctive and more stunning this car looks. I have provided a few pictures in the gallery, taken from afar, for your viewing.

Click Image to Enlarge My test C30 is a T5 model, which starts at $31,995; as such, it’s a competitor to vehicles such as the Golf GTi, Audi A3 or perhaps the Mazdaspeed 3 but with more of a luxurious touch.
My tester is fitted with a few extras, which push the price over $40,000. The Sport Package, a $3,400 option group, adds 17″ wheels; bi-xenon headlights; heated seats; sport chassis; power and memory for driver’s seat; headlamp washers; homelink and auto dimming rearview mirror with compass.
Also included on my tester is the DynAudio package, a $1,000 option, which adds a spectacular-sounding 10-speaker system with six-disc changer and includes Dolby ProLogic Surround sound. Metallic Passion Red paint and a Sunroof round out the options.
A note about my tester: the wheels on it are actually 18-inch Volvo accessory wheels — a dealer-installed option — and not the 17-inch wheels which come as part of the Sport Package.
I have been itching to test drive the C30 since crawling around it at the Toronto Auto Show back in February, and am looking forward to a week where I can tear up some tarmac.
2007 Volvo C30 T5
MSRP as tested: $40,060
For more information on Volvo and the C30 visit Volvo Canada

[Brookside]

Sales on the C30 in N/A are going to be very interesting beyond Volvo's
stake in the outcome. To me it's going to be a near-final verdict on the viability of the hatchback design in this huge market.
The Audi A3 hasn't really had a chance- as Bryan said it's a luxury-brand and Audi dealerships are few compared to Volvo's mainstream presence along the strip malls.



btw, I've seen photos of an outrageous artificial fabric that Volvo offers as an alternate choice to their leather option in the C30...called "Kalix" : it's used in wetsuits and is a derivative of "Tyvek" manufactured by DuPont. Cool!

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

So what did we think about the Volkswagen Eos as competition?



And remember...BMW specifically markets the 1 series as "the only car in its class with RWD". So there's no point bringing up the fact that the Eos is FWD, because ALL the competitors to the 1 series are FWD. Its available with the same 250HP engine as the R32, and that's a serious engine.

[Brookside]

The photo you posted doesn't do the car justice...much nicer looking in person and a great selection of colors.
Awful name.
Not much room in the trunk once the top is down- but I don't think this is going to bother potential customers.

Would you agree there is the mildest whiff of hair salon attached to it?
The male ego is such a fragile object - perhaps the engine is guy-thing compensation.
I'd go with the 1-er cabrio. Nicer roofline and bulletproof testosterone heritage.:biggrin:

[PACIFICONE2003]

"Sweet 16th Birthday Present for Daddy's "Little" Girl." I don't think BMW should be concerned.

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

Here's an idea I'd like to present. As far as competitors to the 1 series, I have a slightly different take...which allows for wider comparison with other cars.

I am considering the 1 series for a garage kept, secondary fun car. I have another vehicle specifically for winter road salt, Wal-mart door dings, and transporting odd junk.

So when the idea of "competition" presented, I'm comparing vehicles from $30k - $45k that are primarily fun lifestyle cars (and only cars), not necessarily the same size. For me, a competing choice is all about what you are getting for your money. Performance wise, competitors merely have to be quick/sporty, something that inspires desire...something when you drive down the street, people take notice. Long term retained value also is an issue.

So under those conditions, let me present this idea...


And it does not necessarily have to be the top spec 425HP 6.1L SRT-8 version. I'd be happy with a 300 HP version in the mid 30K range well equipped. So for similar money as a 6 cylinder 1 series, how does this idea strike you?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgerMitFries

So for similar money as a 6 cylinder 1 series, how does this idea strike you?

Like a wrecking ball to a straw hut? I mean I'd rather drive a Scion TC - it'd be more fun at least.

If you are looking for a 30-45k weekend driver I would consider a slightly used 335i.

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgerMitFries

I am considering the 1 series for a garage kept, secondary fun car. I have another vehicle specifically for winter road salt, Wal-mart door dings, and transporting odd junk.

Then why not a loaded MINI? It's fun, it retains its value like nothing else, and it definetely gets the attention. And with grossly overpriced options like the lounge leather, it actually looks quite upscale, not to mention unique.

[thesunfell]

for retained value? do not go with dodge...no way...
you lose close to 10k in the first year on a charger...
about the same on a gto...
more than that on a chrystler 300...

those throw backs are novelties for the dumb with thier money, and the people that don't know any better...

lets just say now you know better

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

Originally Posted by spinzero

Then why not a loaded MINI? It's fun, it retains its value like nothing else, and it definetely gets the attention. And with grossly overpriced options like the lounge leather, it actually looks quite upscale, not to mention unique.

If I was going for a hatchback, I'd just cut to the chase and get a Volkswagen R32. That, my friend, holds its value like nothing else...85% at 3 years out. AWD, 6 speed DSG transmission (where is BMW's Zero Shift Gearbox by the way?). The new one has an incredibly beautiful interior. There's just no competition between the 2 cars. For the small price difference between a loaded Mini and a R32, the R32 wins that competition by 10,000 miles.

I just have no use for a hatchback. But I do appreciate honest input.

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

Originally Posted by thesunfell

for retained value? do not go with dodge...no way...
you lose close to 10k in the first year on a charger...
about the same on a gto...
more than that on a chrystler 300...

those throw backs are novelties for the dumb with thier money, and the people that don't know any better...

lets just say now you know better

This isn't a Dodge Stratus...the Challenger will have extremely high retained value.
And speaking of throw backs...don't forget the Mini, new Beetle, new Fiat 500 all fall into the throwback category...so retro design is not an odd American quirk, now you know better. And they all do quite well year after year. Too bad we can't get the Fiat 500 in the USA. That would be a fun city car.

[eMINI]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgerMitFries

This isn't a Dodge Stratus...the Challenger will have extremely high retained value.
And speaking of throw backs...don't forget the Mini, new Beetle, new Fiat 500 all fall into the throwback category...so retro design is not an odd American quirk, now you know better. And they all do quite well year after year. Too bad we can't get the Fiat 500 in the USA. That would be a fun city car.

A Challenger sounds lke the perfect choice... No, really... I really mean it.:wink:

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgerMitFries

If I was going for a hatchback, I'd just cut to the chase and get a Volkswagen R32. That, my friend, hold its value like nothing else...85% at 3 years out. AWD, 6 speed DSG transmission (where is BMW's Zero Shift Gearbox?). The new one has an incredibly beautiful interior. There's just no competition between the 2 cars. For the small price difference between a loaded Mini and a R32, the R32 wins that competition by 10,000 miles.

I just have no use for a hatchback. But I do appreciate honest input.

US bound R32 has the same seats as the GTI. I mean, the GTI interior is nice, but it didn't strike me as beutiful for a $30K+ car. That is not to say that the MINI has a better interior though.

If you are open to non-german cars, which you seem to be, then why not something like a facelifted Z350 that's coming out? I think that car is a genuine alternative to the Challenger, albeit being a bit boy racer-ish. But it sure is a fun ride.

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

Originally Posted by spinzero

If you are open to non-german cars, which you seem to be, then why not something like a facelifted Z350 that's coming out? I think that car is a genuine alternative to the Challenger, albeit being a bit boy racer-ish. But it sure is a fun ride.

Since you bring it up, I like to avoid the rice whenever possible. However the newly updated 4 seat 350Z...which is called the Infiniti G37, certianly is in the running. The style is a little bit Hyundai Tiburonish for me though. I liked the appearance of the original G coupe better.

[LonghornTX]

The 1 coupe has competitors from all nationalities IMO. As someone who is strongly considering the coupe for my next car, I am also considering a Mustang (maybe the new Bullitt if it hits in time), an STI/EVO, 350Z, Challenger, etc. Basically any under 40K performance biased car.....Yes the BMW will have a nicer interior, but interiors are not everything.....

[eMINI]

Originally Posted by LonghornTX

The 1 coupe has competitors from all nationalities IMO. As someone who is strongly considering the coupe for my next car, I am also considering a Mustang (maybe the new Bullitt if it hits in time), an STI/EVO, 350Z, Challenger, etc. Basically any under 40K performance biased car.....Yes the BMW will have a nicer interior, but interiors are not everything.....

You're right. Driving dynamics is everything. OK, not everything, but it's the first thing. I don't want a cheap-feeling all-plastic interior either, but first and foremeost the car has to be rewarding to drive.

Go drive the cars you have listed above. One will stand out. Buy it. All the cars you have listed are good choices. It all depends what you're looking for in a car.

Along those lines, I realize my priorities are not the same as everyone elses. But for me, the car has to be fun to drive. I'm looking for a car with superior handling that's fast enough to stand out. But, being totally honest, there's also a more subjective quality I search for. VW used to call it Farfergneugen (sic?). It's what makes the MINI a winner. It's when the car encourages maybe a little bad behavior, always asks to do it again (but faster this time), begs from the garage for any excuse to go out and play. If you've never had this relationship with your car, it's hard to truly understand. I'm very optimistic for the M1/M2/135i, but time will tell. I have to drive it first.