Hankook V12 vs Michelin PSS vs Bridgestone s-04 PP

f87CSdrifterential · 08-22-2017, 10:11 AM

The quest for the perfect tire for street use with no track.

I am a very spirited driver on traffic free open roads and highway ramps. My car is FBO with mods listed in my signature. The only suspension components still stock are my shocks & springs, plus the strut brace. The car currently has 81k on it, with all suspension mods less than 3k. An alignment was done after the work was done and I generally drive with DTC fully on. All comparisons done at 38 front & 42 rear PSI.

I had the OEM RFT RE050A on the stock wheels and though I enjoyed the feel of the car I did not enjoy the traction. So, like many others, I began transforming the car to handle non RFT tires. At the time I had Hankook V12s (225/40&255/35) and found them to be ok, but much to soft in the corner, especially under heavy load. I also disliked the snap back that they seemed to provided when stepping the rear end out. The Hankooks sidewall falls in between the Michelin & the Bridgestone for firmness. Easily the best mileage and quietest of the bunch even when you try to make noise wth them. Very comfortable tire.

Last summer, shortly after the suspension mods, I picked up a set of Michelin PSS (225/40&255/35) and VMR 810s. I was impressed with the pin point turn in as well as the feel in the corners. Bumps seemed exceptionally sharp and wheel hop was not any better than with the V12s even after trying different air pressure settings. I still couldn't put power down without breaking traction, though the TC light almost never came on. Unmounted the sidewall of this tire feels like a limp, deflated balloon. It is the thinest & lightest of the bunch, if I had to guess 2-3lbs lighter than the Bridgstone.

Last week I was given a set of S-04 Pole Positions for the front (225/40R18) that were used lightly for 1000 miles and I put a new set of matching, but slightly wider, 265/35 in the rear. I know with how little I have driven them they are not broken in. The front feels planted, though the steering feels much heavier than with the Michelins. It takes more effort and at a higher speed slalom the rear feels a little mushy. On the same corners I could step out the rear with the PSS with traction control fully on, I now must have it on the mid setting or I get throttle cut out. There is no wheel hop. The sidewall of this tire feel like a RFT so the mushy feeling compared to the Michelin surprised me.

I would love to hear others experiences with these tires as I continue to try and tighten the rear of my car without sacrificing the ride quality.

juld0zer · 09-06-2017, 10:35 AM

Assuming you are on stock rims, the 265 rear is too wide and likely the cause of the soft rear feeling.

The S04PP is the S001 in other markets. It is supposed to be the successor to the RE050A but IMO they are not a 100% upgrade from the 'old' tyre. Tyre life and noise has improved but i still find the RE050A to be a more precise tyre overall.

Like the RE050A, wheel hop is surprisingly absent. I have not taken a video of the wheels launching to convince myself but I believe they spin so much and cant bite once spinning, hence you don't feel any wheel hop. But the thing that dismisses that theory is the car somehow still moves forward at some pace. Which leads me to believe the DSC/traction control settings are calibrated around these tyres.

f87CSdrifterential · 09-07-2017, 07:56 AM

I have a set of VMR 810s, the rears are 9.5". I think some of the mushy feeling is from the tires having 10/32 tread vs the michelins that now have about 6/32 tread. Tread squirm to be exact.

The tires are definitely starting to break in. I have around 500-600 miles on them now. I haven't launched them off the line, but stepping them out I can feel and hear them spin (with the windows down). They take a second to hook up and grab harder than the PSS did and without the wheel hop.

I have coilovers, rear toe arms, and a front strut brace on the way. I will report back after a bit of driving with the new suspension change.

TridenTBoy · 09-07-2017, 12:59 PM

Any reason to not go with the Firestone Indy 500? They're stupid cheap in comparison to PSS and practically 95% of the performance of the Michelin PSS.

f87CSdrifterential · 09-07-2017, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TridenTBoy

Any reason to not go with the Firestone Indy 500? They're stupid cheap in comparison to PSS and practically 95% of the performance of the Michelin PSS.

I have never driven on them. There is a 3 page thread from last year when they first came out. Seems like some positive feedback for the price.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1259810

asbrr · 09-07-2017, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TridenTBoy

Any reason to not go with the Firestone Indy 500? They're stupid cheap in comparison to PSS and practically 95% of the performance of the Michelin PSS.

Yes, availability!!!!! I ended up with the new Contis because I couldn't find the damn Firestones anywhere...

TridenTBoy · 09-07-2017, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asbrr

Yes, availability!!!!! I ended up with the new Contis because I couldn't find the damn Firestones anywhere...

It is rough but I'd call or visit a local firestone (if you wanna save a penny) and have them do a search within 100 miles. You can then get UPS to pick up the tires and then have them shipped to you. It won't be too expensive and will cost about the same as if you went through TR or what not.

f87CSdrifterential · 09-08-2017, 09:06 AM

It's nearly snow tire season for Canada and the northern half of the US. Manufacturers aren't as focused on supplying summer performance tires or mud terrains this time of year.

juld0zer · 09-12-2017, 10:54 AM

Another vote for the Indy 500/RE003. Fantastic tyre so far but it hasn't rained here to test the wet traction vs PSS.

They are a surprisingly heavy tyre compared to a PSS though

TridenTBoy · 09-12-2017, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juld0zer

Another vote for the Indy 500/RE003. Fantastic tyre so far but it hasn't rained here to test the wet traction vs PSS.

They are a surprisingly heavy tyre compared to a PSS though

This I didn't know... I think either the PSS or the PSC2 have carbon fiber in the tire though. (or at least, I remember hearing this from some PR material)

Says 25lbs for 255/35R18 on TR for both.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...I5XL&tab=Sizes

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...SSXL&tab=Sizes

f87CSdrifterential · 09-12-2017, 05:27 PM

The bridgestone is a heavier tire than the michelin. I don't think the weight info is accurate.

08-22-2017, 10:11 AM	#1
f87CSdrifterential First Lieutenant 188 Rep 327 Posts Drives: 2020 M2 CS Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: NH iTrader: (4)	Hankook V12 vs Michelin PSS vs Bridgestone s-04 PP The quest for the perfect tire for street use with no track. I am a very spirited driver on traffic free open roads and highway ramps. My car is FBO with mods listed in my signature. The only suspension components still stock are my shocks & springs, plus the strut brace. The car currently has 81k on it, with all suspension mods less than 3k. An alignment was done after the work was done and I generally drive with DTC fully on. All comparisons done at 38 front & 42 rear PSI. I had the OEM RFT RE050A on the stock wheels and though I enjoyed the feel of the car I did not enjoy the traction. So, like many others, I began transforming the car to handle non RFT tires. At the time I had Hankook V12s (225/40&255/35) and found them to be ok, but much to soft in the corner, especially under heavy load. I also disliked the snap back that they seemed to provided when stepping the rear end out. The Hankooks sidewall falls in between the Michelin & the Bridgestone for firmness. Easily the best mileage and quietest of the bunch even when you try to make noise wth them. Very comfortable tire. Last summer, shortly after the suspension mods, I picked up a set of Michelin PSS (225/40&255/35) and VMR 810s. I was impressed with the pin point turn in as well as the feel in the corners. Bumps seemed exceptionally sharp and wheel hop was not any better than with the V12s even after trying different air pressure settings. I still couldn't put power down without breaking traction, though the TC light almost never came on. Unmounted the sidewall of this tire feels like a limp, deflated balloon. It is the thinest & lightest of the bunch, if I had to guess 2-3lbs lighter than the Bridgstone. Last week I was given a set of S-04 Pole Positions for the front (225/40R18) that were used lightly for 1000 miles and I put a new set of matching, but slightly wider, 265/35 in the rear. I know with how little I have driven them they are not broken in. The front feels planted, though the steering feels much heavier than with the Michelins. It takes more effort and at a higher speed slalom the rear feels a little mushy. On the same corners I could step out the rear with the PSS with traction control fully on, I now must have it on the mid setting or I get throttle cut out. There is no wheel hop. The sidewall of this tire feel like a RFT so the mushy feeling compared to the Michelin surprised me. I would love to hear others experiences with these tires as I continue to try and tighten the rear of my car without sacrificing the ride quality. Last edited by f87CSdrifterential; 09-07-2017 at 08:01 AM.. Reason: spelling
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09-06-2017, 10:35 AM	#2
juld0zer Lieutenant Colonel 480 Rep 1,600 Posts Drives: Prev 135i 7DCT, Now 130i 6sp Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: 2153 iTrader: (0)	Assuming you are on stock rims, the 265 rear is too wide and likely the cause of the soft rear feeling. The S04PP is the S001 in other markets. It is supposed to be the successor to the RE050A but IMO they are not a 100% upgrade from the 'old' tyre. Tyre life and noise has improved but i still find the RE050A to be a more precise tyre overall. Like the RE050A, wheel hop is surprisingly absent. I have not taken a video of the wheels launching to convince myself but I believe they spin so much and cant bite once spinning, hence you don't feel any wheel hop. But the thing that dismisses that theory is the car somehow still moves forward at some pace. Which leads me to believe the DSC/traction control settings are calibrated around these tyres.
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09-07-2017, 07:56 AM	#3
f87CSdrifterential First Lieutenant 188 Rep 327 Posts Drives: 2020 M2 CS Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: NH iTrader: (4)	I have a set of VMR 810s, the rears are 9.5". I think some of the mushy feeling is from the tires having 10/32 tread vs the michelins that now have about 6/32 tread. Tread squirm to be exact. The tires are definitely starting to break in. I have around 500-600 miles on them now. I haven't launched them off the line, but stepping them out I can feel and hear them spin (with the windows down). They take a second to hook up and grab harder than the PSS did and without the wheel hop. I have coilovers, rear toe arms, and a front strut brace on the way. I will report back after a bit of driving with the new suspension change.
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09-07-2017, 12:59 PM	#4
TridenTBoy First Lieutenant 127 Rep 338 Posts Drives: 2013 BMW 135is Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: San Francisco, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2013 BMW 135is [0.00]	Any reason to not go with the Firestone Indy 500? They're stupid cheap in comparison to PSS and practically 95% of the performance of the Michelin PSS.
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09-08-2017, 09:06 AM	#8
f87CSdrifterential First Lieutenant 188 Rep 327 Posts Drives: 2020 M2 CS Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: NH iTrader: (4)	It's nearly snow tire season for Canada and the northern half of the US. Manufacturers aren't as focused on supplying summer performance tires or mud terrains this time of year.
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09-12-2017, 10:54 AM	#9
juld0zer Lieutenant Colonel 480 Rep 1,600 Posts Drives: Prev 135i 7DCT, Now 130i 6sp Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: 2153 iTrader: (0)	Another vote for the Indy 500/RE003. Fantastic tyre so far but it hasn't rained here to test the wet traction vs PSS. They are a surprisingly heavy tyre compared to a PSS though
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09-12-2017, 05:27 PM	#11
f87CSdrifterential First Lieutenant 188 Rep 327 Posts Drives: 2020 M2 CS Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: NH iTrader: (4)	The bridgestone is a heavier tire than the michelin. I don't think the weight info is accurate.
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