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[ParkNuts]

I'm in the market for new tires and I want to get a set that will look aggressive, but I am also concerned about functionality. The tires I want are Michelin PSS. I've seen a lot of conflicting information about a 235/265 setup not fitting and rubbing on stock suspension. Some guys say they have done it with no issues and others say there will be some rubbing on big bumps. I love the look, and will go with it as long as the performance will not suffer compared to the more widely used 225/255 setup.

If I do end up lowering the car down the road, with the plus size give me substantial issues where I need camber plates? I'm not very familiar with the tire, and if it runs wide or narrow compared to others, so any comments would be appreciated.

My main concern is dialing out the understeer, which I will be combating along with an M3 front sway bar I just picked up. I also want the overall ride to be better, which is solved by pretty much any non runflat tire.

So, anybody have experience with PSS in 225/255 or 235/265?

[ptack]

If you're talking about doing this on the OEM rims I would stay with the 225/255. That's a plus 1 which should work. If you're interested in performance, you need a wider wheel to do 235/265 and then you will have fitment concerns depending on the wheel.

[3002 tii]

235/265 will just help in the looks dept if that's what you're going for. But you mention dialing out understeer and I doubt this configuration would help you with that.

235/265 seems unnecessarily wide for the stock widths and not to mention would be heavier than 225/255. But if you want to dial out understeer, you're better off going with a square setup - and that's just in terms of tire/wheels. You can also tinker with the suspension, ie adding camber for better turn-in, higher spring rates, thicker sways etc.

[BrokenVert]

Agreed with the above. While a 225/255 is good ( I ran this setup on PS2s for 3 years) The 245 square setup I ran this summer was absolutely unbelievable (Althought that may have been partially the tires, Star Specs)

That being said I dont have any experience with PSS, only my PS2s. But my PS2s rolled the sidewall all the time, even with my front sway. That didnt happen with the Dunlops with the same suspension setup.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Agreed with the above. While a 225/255 is good ( I ran this setup on PS2s for 3 years) The 245 square setup I ran this summer was absolutely unbelievable (Althought that may have been partially the tires, Star Specs)

That being said I dont have any experience with PSS, only my PS2s. But my PS2s rolled the sidewall all the time, even with my front sway. That didnt happen with the Dunlops with the same suspension setup.

I'm running square 235 Dunlops and they have been great so far. Only problem is they get a bit greasy after 20 mins on the track. If the RS-3's had better treadwear and wet performance, I would've gone with those.

[GaryS]

225/255 non-RFT will give a much more comfortable ride than the stock runflats and might give a little more grip to reduce understeer. 235/265 is too wide for the stock wheels. It would feel too soft and would probably cause inconsistent grip.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Dubbedown

I'm running square 235 Dunlops and they have been great so far. Only problem is they get a bit greasy after 20 mins on the track. If the RS-3's had better treadwear and wet performance, I would've gone with those.

I wouldnt know. I havent tracked the car yet. Most people get pretty crazy when they find out I have a vert.

I dont get why I cant sign a form like I did when I went skydiving. If anything happens (even if its their fault) I cant sue them. Problem solved.

I mean how bad would I have to be to flip on a track?

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

I wouldnt know. I havent tracked the car yet. Most people get pretty crazy when they find out I have a vert.

I dont get why I cant sign a form like I did when I went skydiving. If anything happens (even if its their fault) I cant sue them. Problem solved.

I mean how bad would I have to be to flip on a track?

Problem with the vert is that if you don't track (yet), that means you'd have to go with an instructor and you're putting the instructor at risk. And end of day, although you maybe willing to take on certain risk factors, from the perspective of the instructor/club/track, it's probably something they could do without.

Do some research, there are certain clubs that allow verts to run. PCA lets Boxsters run and they may make exceptions for certain non-P cars. I see you're local to me. My buddy and I just went down to Summit for NASA HPDE and he ran his s2000 without issue. As long as you're not super tall, you have a good shot of finding a club that will let you run.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Dubbedown

Problem with the vert is that if you don't track (yet), that means you'd have to go with an instructor and you're putting the instructor at risk. And end of day, although you maybe willing to take on certain risk factors, from the perspective of the instructor/club/track, it's probably something they could do without.

Do some research, there are certain clubs that allow verts to run. PCA lets Boxsters run and they may make exceptions for certain non-P cars. I see you're local to me. My buddy and I just went down to Summit for NASA HPDE and he ran his s2000 without issue. As long as you're not super tall, you have a good shot of finding a club that will let you run.

I guess. But its not like ill be pushing all that hard while im still green.

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

I wouldnt know. I havent tracked the car yet. Most people get pretty crazy when they find out I have a vert.

I dont get why I cant sign a form like I did when I went skydiving. If anything happens (even if its their fault) I cant sue them. Problem solved.

I mean how bad would I have to be to flip on a track?

If you go off the track, anything can happen. In my one year of tracking, I've seen upside down beginners and upside down instructors. So I think you really would be nuts to do it without some kind of roll protection. That said, I've heard a lot of complaining from Miata and Boxster guys that the BMW clubs are much stricter about what kind of protection is good enough than other clubs.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

I guess. But its not like ill be pushing all that hard while im still green.

Honestly, not sure if you've ever been on the track but it doesn't take pushing to extremes for something bad to occur. Someone just posted in the track section a video of a s2k that went off track after a deer ran across the course (which is more frequent than you think). If anything, lack of experience may cause the driver to turn hard while braking, which would upset the balance of the car. Next thing you know you're sideways on the gravel and the car flips over - it happens.

If you're looking to get on track, maybe you should consider installing a rollbar?

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by GaryS

If you go off the track, anything can happen. In my one year of tracking, I've seen upside down beginners and upside down instructors. So I think you really would be nuts to do it without some kind of roll protection. That said, I've heard a lot of complaining from Miata and Boxster guys that the BMW clubs are much stricter about what kind of protection is good enough than other clubs.

Well the thing ive heard most is, the clubs dont trust the popup rollover bars that BMWs have. They dont think theyll deploy in the event of something happening.

Thats why Miata, S2K, Z4, Boxter, etc are allowed to run, because they have fixed roll protection.


I have heard that if you can get the bars up and locked on my car before you head out that some of the less strict organizations (NASA especially) will let you out, but I havent tried it.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Dubbedown

Honestly, not sure if you've ever been on the track but it doesn't take pushing to extremes for something bad to occur. Someone just posted in the track section a video of a s2k that went off track after a deer ran across the course (which is more frequent than you think). If anything, lack of experience may cause the driver to turn hard while braking, which would upset the balance of the car. Next thing you know you're sideways on the gravel and the car flips over - it happens.

If you're looking to get on track, maybe you should consider installing a rollbar?

Yeah I get it, stuff does happen even at the professional level. India practice was red flagged because a dog showed up on the track for example.

And its not like I dont have any experience, ive been autoxing for a while and my friend and I have a E30 that weve been driving in amateur leagues. Hoping to go up to semipro this summer (if we can get the sponsoring cash to prep the car for it) Right now its just our spare cash going into tires and such.
Basically just saying that I know exactly what can go wrong haha, ive done half of it already.

But yeah, ive been debating taking the rear seat out and welding myself up a cage for the car.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

And its not like I dont have any experience, ive been autoxing for a while and my friend and I have a E30 that weve been driving in amateur leagues. Hoping to go up to semipro this summer (if we can get the sponsoring cash to prep the car for it) Right now its just our spare cash going into tires and such.
Basically just saying that I know exactly what can go wrong haha, ive done half of it already.

But yeah, ive been debating taking the rear seat out and welding myself up a cage for the car.

I did 2 seasons of auto-x and it was a blast but after my first HPDE I never looked back. And just from a dollars perspective, HPDE was much better value. 1 auto-x session of $50 gets you maybe 7 runs, each about 1 minute. That's $50 for 7 minutes, or approx $7/min. 1 day HPDE of $200 will get you at least three 20-min sessions, or $200 for 60 minutes, $3.33/min (and that doesn't include classroom time). You spend the same amount of time outside, but at least with HPDE you're not standing on your feet, chasing cones for half the day.

And imho, HPDE/Auto-x are totally different animals, can't really be compared. Auto-x helped with car control if the backend ever slipped out but the driving inputs are totally different. Certain things are similar, ie looking through the turns but auto-x is more "choppy", both steering and throttle/brake whereas road course requires a more smooth approach and learning to use the track.

Install the rollbar and hit the tracks, you won't regret it! OP, sorry for digressing lol.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by Dubbedown

I did 2 seasons of auto-x and it was a blast but after my first HPDE I never looked back. And just from a dollars perspective, HPDE was much better value. 1 auto-x session of $50 gets you maybe 7 runs, each about 1 minute. That's $50 for 7 minutes, or approx $7/min. 1 day HPDE of $200 will get you at least three 20-min sessions, or $200 for 60 minutes, $3.33/min (and that doesn't include classroom time). You spend the same amount of time outside, but at least with HPDE you're not standing on your feet, chasing cones for half the day.

And imho, HPDE/Auto-x are totally different animals, can't really be compared. Auto-x helped with car control if the backend ever slipped out but the driving inputs are totally different. Certain things are similar, ie looking through the turns but auto-x is more "choppy", both steering and throttle/brake whereas road course requires a more smooth approach and learning to use the track.

Install the rollbar and hit the tracks, you won't regret it! OP, sorry for digressing lol.

Ive heard that from friends. I know how different they are and I really want to do a track day, so I need no convincing.

And man you guys get ripped off. I pay $35 on average and get 10-12 runs in.
I guess ill suck it up and chop up the back of my car. haha



And yeah sorry op. This has been a major threadjack
but heres something to make it up to you. Its a puppy in a fez

[ParkNuts]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

Yeah I get it, stuff does happen even at the professional level. India practice was red flagged because a dog showed up on the track for example.

And its not like I dont have any experience, ive been autoxing for a while and my friend and I have a E30 that weve been driving in amateur leagues. Hoping to go up to semipro this summer (if we can get the sponsoring cash to prep the car for it) Right now its just our spare cash going into tires and such.
Basically just saying that I know exactly what can go wrong haha, ive done half of it already.

But yeah, ive been debating taking the rear seat out and welding myself up a cage for the car.

Stay on topic!!

JK (sort of)

Thanks for the replies.

PS - I'm not set on PSS, but it seems like everyone says this is the best all around tire. I will not track the car. It's my DD. Any other recommendations? The price point of the PSS is what I'm trying to hit, and I won't go north of that.

[Focusedintntions]

Park...I run PSS for both street and track events (for now...next year i'm planning rcomps) and honestly I haven't tried a better tire. I've had star specs and anything and everything in between. In terms of dry grip at the track I spend quite a bit of my day passing cars running rcomps and people that can't believe i'm on a "street" tire. Even in the wet they have phenomenal levels of grip. Compared to the star specs you get a much quieter highway ride, better wear, and insane levels of grip in dry or wet. Go with them and you'll never look back! Just be aware though, like any max performance tire, when it drops below 45 and its wet, grip is marginal though lol.

This past weekend at the track it was 30 some odd degrees in our morning sessions and the tires were great after a warmup lap.

[GaryS]

PSS 225/255 on stock wheels is great for daily driving. You will love them.

[Focusedintntions]

I run a 225/255 setup. With camber plates you'll get rid of a lot of the understeer. The m3 sway bar won't help that, it'll only make it worse, but you'll get less body roll and better turn in.

[VMRWheels]

Originally Posted by Dubbedown

235/265 will just help in the looks dept if that's what you're going for. But you mention dialing out understeer and I doubt this configuration would help you with that.

235/265 seems unnecessarily wide for the stock widths and not to mention would be heavier than 225/255. But if you want to dial out understeer, you're better off going with a square setup - and that's just in terms of tire/wheels. You can also tinker with the suspension, ie adding camber for better turn-in, higher spring rates, thicker sways etc.

+1

Square is definitely better for rotation. Overall though I don't think a 235/265 on stock components will yield a noticeable difference, especially for everyday driving.

[dicker]

It depends on the wheels obviously, also is the car on stock power?

If you want to help the understeer 225/245 would work well on the stock wheels, 255 if you're over stock power though.

I personally run the 235/265 PSS but my wheels are 1" wider than stock front and rear.

[ParkNuts]

Originally Posted by dicker

It depends on the wheels obviously, also is the car on stock power?

If you want to help the understeer 225/245 would work well on the stock wheels, 255 if you're over stock power though.

I personally run the 235/265 PSS but my wheels are 1" wider than stock front and rear.

The car is stock except for a Vishnu downpipe (and M3 bar soon, which I got for feel and turn in). I know 245 would be a more neutral setup but I want the plus size look. I also might be taking the car to the 1/8 mile track on rare occasion.