Breaking the M in!

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by superchargedman

rev-matching, yes.

You probably already know this, so please bear with me.
Just to clarify, 'double-clutching' and 'rev matching' are not the same thing.
You can double clutch to rev match (slower), but you can rev match without double clutching.
Most drivers use a technique called "heel and toe" to perform the rev match (much faster).

Double clutching is a method of changing gears in older MT's that didn't have synchros. Some people still double clutch out of habit, or because they feel that it reduces driveline shock.

There are different camps on new car break in with various factions in between.
Some go 'by the book'. Some drive it the same way they'll drive it even after 10k miles.
I don't go by the book.
Also, I don't do standing starts going WFO to redline, at least not until about 800-1000 miles.
But, my engines will see red line well before 1000 rpm.

If you want real information on engine break in, go to the web and search out real information and not just opinion and commentary, like mine, that you'll readily find on car forums. Still, there is good information on car forums as well, and you can see which ones are good as they won't be based on fear, gloom and doom, or personal insult on those who may not follow the same procedure as you.

Varying the load and RPM while driving is one thing that seems to be shared by everyone. Also, don't do a long highway drive where you keep the engine at a certain rpm for the whole 100+ mile drive.

Does it matter which way you do it?
That answer varies as much as the procedure, as people feel one affects the other.
I can offer my owner experience.
You know my break in preference. I based on reading information from engine builders and mechanics and their experiences.
I've never had an engine failure in any of my cars or motorcylces, due to "not by the book" break in.
This includes family and friends vehicles that I'm familiar with.
I've been driving now for over 30+ years.
That's anecdotal and just my experience, others experiences are different.

If you really want to know what engineers and engine builders do for break in, search and seek out real articles on the subject.

[superchargedman]

yes, i know that it is a specific method of rev matching.

[superchargedman]

thanks for the personal account, though.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by superchargedman

yes, i know that it is a specific method of rev matching.

I figured you did.
I corrected my post to alter the tone, as no insult was intended.

Did you double clutch the RSX?
I LOVE the manual trans in that car.
That has to be my favorite manual. Same experience in the TL MT as well, at least from the years when the RSX was around.
The pedal placement and responsive engine made for a very easy heel-toe rev match.
Fun car.

I forgot to mention an often overlooked yet very important break in, the break in for the brakes.

Brake "bedding"/break in is extremely important for best braking and wear over the life to the pads and rotors.
There are bedding procedures on the internet.
Here are some:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...formance.shtml
http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

Even though you may be past the initial bedding process mileage, you can still do the procedure.
You can also do the bedding process if you've glazed your brakes after a hard stop or hard run. If you feel the pedal pulsing, not ABS, after a hard stop, try the bedding procedure.

[superchargedman]

thanks! i recently bedded my rsx typeS's ferrodos. it's a good idea. most of my manual driving is on the rsx and my dad's old porsche 944, and they both have beautiful trannies, yet finicky synchros. the rsx is particularly finicky in the canadian climate here. so, i refuse to downshift without a heel-toe or a double clutch. however, the 1m's tranny is by far one of the best manuals i've ever driven, and has yet to show me any issues with shifting. it comes close to my friend's 911 turbo.

[mattm]

Originally Posted by Papethova

My 135 was broken in at redline with WOT starting as early as mile 5.

I don't think I'll be as restrained.

BTW, anyone changing oil early, like at 1,000 miles (or 1,200 miles)? If so are you changing trans and diff fluid too? (I'll start a thread here: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...4#post10484554 )

[superchargedman]

i was checking out the stoptech link. would you recommend the street bed-in 10 stops? i used a pretty complex bed-in process for the ferrodos, but they are club race pads.

Originally Posted by RPM90

I figured you did.
I corrected my post to alter the tone, as no insult was intended.

Did you double clutch the RSX?
I LOVE the manual trans in that car.
That has to be my favorite manual. Same experience in the TL MT as well, at least from the years when the RSX was around.
The pedal placement and responsive engine made for a very easy heel-toe rev match.
Fun car.

I forgot to mention an often overlooked yet very important break in, the break in for the brakes.

Brake "bedding"/break in is extremely important for best braking and wear over the life to the pads and rotors.
There are bedding procedures on the internet.
Here are some:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...formance.shtml
http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

Even though you may be past the initial bedding process mileage, you can still do the procedure.
You can also do the bedding process if you've glazed your brakes after a hard stop or hard run. If you feel the pedal pulsing, not ABS, after a hard stop, try the bedding procedure.

[Papethova]

Originally Posted by SNOOPY11

A- While at Leipzig.. did they mention anything regarding motor break-in and testing prior to install?

I didnt specifically ask, but they did have an area where each car gets run in a booth. They were winding them up (how high I dont know) Also, every 100th car gets taken out back on the track.

Additionally at the Munich plant if you could see how the employees were driving the cars to load them onto the trains and move them around the property (they werent gentle). Not saying they were hitting the limiter or abusing the car in any way.

I cant recall if during engine building the engines get run there too, I think they did but I saw so much stuff I cant clearly remember.

[Aussie_in_London]

In this day and age all engines are pre run in on a bench during pre fitting testing, gone are the days of old school stringent engine run in periods on delivery by the customer..............just look at some people on the road these days and think about strict engine run in periods lol

Bedding in brakes and running gear is another matter......

A bit of mechanical sympathy is what its all about

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Papethova

I didnt specifically ask, but they did have an area where each car gets run in a booth. They were winding them up (how high I dont know) Also, every 100th car gets taken out back on the track.

Additionally at the Munich plant if you could see how the employees were driving the cars to load them onto the trains and move them around the property (they werent gentle). Not saying they were hitting the limiter or abusing the car in any way.

I cant recall if during engine building the engines get run there too, I think they did but I saw so much stuff I cant clearly remember.

Its the same way in Munich. Plus in Munich.. every engine that is built there gets run on a "cold dyno". ie the engine gets driven hydraulically with oits spark plugs installed. Instead BMW has special pressure sensors in the spark plugs place. IF the machine detects a higher force is needed to turn over the test engine... it gets a closer look at.

The 1M (N54) and N55 x35i engines are made in Austria though. I am not sure what their dyno process is.

Now a days most engines do not get dyno'd before being put in a car (at BMW). At Leipzig (and at other BMW plants) they have this special drive in room, that a finished car gets dyno'd in - at part throttle thru a broad range of speeds. I think max speed they hit is something like 160 kph. Btw... the dyno room can also dyno AWD cars too.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Aussie_in_London

Bedding in brakes and running gear is another matter......

A bit of mechanical sympathy is what its all about

YuP! That is why BMW says not to exceed 5,500 rpms or 170 kph durring the first 2,500 kms. Because of the gear break in (trans and diff). Not heeding this break in rule can lead to some gear noise at part throttle at certain speeds. Espcially from the diff when you do not heed the 170 kph break in V-max reccomendation.

[superchargedman]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

YuP! That is why BMW says not to exceed 5,500 rpms or 170 kph durring the first 2,500 kms. Because of the gear break in (trans and diff). Not heeding this break in rule can lead to some gear noise at part throttle at certain speeds. Espcially from the diff when you do not heed the 170 kph break in V-max reccomendation.

thanks, dackel! do you know what the specific mechanical rationale is for not hitting wot?

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by superchargedman

thanks, dackel! do you know what the specific mechanical rationale is for not hitting wot?

I think because you want the piston rings(and valves) to wear in and all the other metal parts to "bed in" before you really start to put a lot of load on the engine. You don't want to lug the engine and flatten those poor crankshaft bearings, nor do you want to have metal on metal parts getting to know eachother too well before they "bed in".

[Oaktree]

N54 engine, going south on the autobahn. 50k miles and no issues. I really don't think hitting 6,500 rpm is going to make your motor blow-up or last 15,000 miles less....
These things are built to exacting tolerances and can handle a lot of stress. This is not a 8,500 rpm motor.

[ChrisBuer]

I've noticed that quite a few owners have had their service intervals display in their cars much earlier than 1200 miles.

Apparently the "run in service" is time dependant and I'm told occurs 2 months after the build of the car. Therefore if you have not completed 1200 miles in two months, then the car will display that it needs it's service.

Now I will obey by the rules and run my car in properly, but I would question what exactly the point of this service is.

For example, if you stored your car for 2 months and didn't turn a wheel, the car would still indicate that it needed it's service. Nothing would have been "run in" as the car wouldn't have moved. This could be the case for some owners who are storing their cars before actually taking delivery.

Like I say, I will run my car in as per the instructions, but if it is time dependant, I'm not entirely sure what you are "running in".

[sparoz]

Originally Posted by superchargedman

Hey Guys,

So, I know there's controversy over break-in procedures, but I was just wondering what peoples' experiences have been with trying to adhere to the break in guide.

I find that it's very easy to stay below 5500rpm, but it's difficult to avoid opening the throttle entirely up when I double clutch sometimes (heel and toeing doesn't tend to provoke it). Or, I'll mistakenly give it full throttle for a second when passing someone. I may have also opened it up entirely at highway speed for a second, too...

What do you guys think? Any ideas of how this may affect the long-term health of the car? Thanks!

Bimmerfile done an article recently just on this. Gabe asked the engineers and they explained the rationale of the why. Avoiding WOT is relating to breaking in the M-diff according to the article, otherwise you will get a noisier diff.

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2011/09/16...mw/#more-15170

[///M1]

I can tell you what my ED delivery specialist advised me at the Welt upon taking delivery (and is very much along the same lines of what a friend of mine was advised when he took delivery of his 1///M a few weeks later [by a different delivery specialist]):

"Drive below 4,500 for the first 500km, with as much shifting, going through the gears, and varying RPM range as you can, and after which slowly take her up in the RPMs but stay withing redline prior to 1000km. WOT is not recommended for the first 500km".

The key here is 'varying conditions'. I drove the car straight up to Cologne that same night (550km), though did go through some city driving and was one of few times I didn't mind traffic, backups, and opennings, as I could play around with shifting and varying RPMs and loads on the engine. Nevertheless, I didn't consider her broken-in in that one trip/one day. So the mileage is really relative. If you drive 1200 from NY to FL on 65mph cruise control, you have not done any sort of break in.

FWIW, I have seen some folks break in their cars on dyno rollers (again, vaying conditions and loads, not redline pulls).

[Papethova]

Originally Posted by ///M1

I can tell you what my ED delivery specialist advised me at the Welt upon taking delivery (and is very much along the same lines of what a friend of mine was advised when he took delivery of his 1///M a few weeks later [by a different delivery specialist]):

"Drive below 4,500 for the first 500km, with as much shifting, going through the gears, and varying RPM range as you can, and after which slowly take her up in the RPMs but stay withing redline prior to 1000km. WOT is not recommended for the first 500km".

Same story here as far as what I was told at the Welt. Add in Vmax 105MPH for those 1st 500kms.

[superchargedman]

Originally Posted by sparoz

Bimmerfile done an article recently just on this. Gabe asked the engineers and they explained the rationale of the why. Avoiding WOT is relating to breaking in the M-diff according to the article, otherwise you will get a noisier diff.

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2011/09/16...mw/#more-15170

thanks! i never noticed that article. that's a relief regarding wot affecting the diff when hard acceleration is applied. i only went wot during a 6th gear pull like tiff to see what its ability to pull in final gear was like for a few seconds. otherwise, i've only blipped near wot a few times when downshifting. i feel a little more at ease. thank-you for helping indulge my ocd tendencies.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Oaktree

N54 engine, going south on the autobahn. 50k miles and no issues. I really don't think hitting 6,500 rpm is going to make your motor blow-up or last 15,000 miles less....
These things are built to exacting tolerances and can handle a lot of stress. This is not a 8,500 rpm motor.

So you know more than all the engineers and BMW who tell you to break in your car? For that, you know more than all the automotive engineers in the world that tell you to break in your car by being gentle, avoiding steady speeds, etc. You know more than all the race teams in the world that break in their engines on dynos before dropping them off in a race car!

MAN, that mountain air must be better than staying in a Holiday Inn.

At least have the decency to tell the guy that buys your car that you were much smarter than everyone in the automotive world and didn't listen to those bozos.

[superchargedman]

people are only expressing their opinions and offering resources. no one is holding a gun to your head. break your car in the way you want to.

[NjSant]

my dealer said 3500rpm...