Help me decide: HPF intercooler or CPE intercooler + oil cooler?

[jeremydgreat]

I am ready to upgrade to a larger intercooler and was initially looking into the large HPF intercooler (about $1k) I like that it's one of the largest ones available for 135/335's and mounts to the stock hose clips.

However, today I noticed this from BMS: CPE Intercooler with an add-on Oil Cooler (about $1k for both.)

So, my question is- what would you do? Again, I like the design and track record of the HPF intercooler. From what I've seen, most oil coolers run in the $500 range, so getting one for this cheap feels like a big gain. I have about $1k to spend.

The reasons I'm upgrading in the first place:

• I track my car frequently and am starting to get boost leaks (no doubt from my JB3).
• I'm worried about running boost and not increasing the air flow.
• Limp modes - The last two times I've been to the track I've had them. It could be from oil temps and it could be from the boost leaks. Either way, they suck.

[Kamal]

I remember reading a post where someone had commented that they were unimpressed by the oil cooler. I'd worry about the fact that it somewhat blocks the radiator (slightly cooler oil temps vs. slightly higher coolant temps) and that, I believe, it doesn't supplement the stock oil cooler but replaces it.

Also, the HPF can be had for much cheaper than $1k. PM Andrew@LutzPerformance for a 'better than group buy' price and see what he can do. I know he's all sold out for now, but should be restocked in a matter of weeks.

[bogart]

ER intercooler and dual oil coolers FTW!!!

[jeremydgreat]

My question was what would you do given my choices. :-) Focus bogart focus!

[Kamal]

My vote's for HPF!

[thez99]

Originally Posted by bogart

ER intercooler and dual oil coolers FTW!!!

Hah..yes the dual oil coolers would be sweet, too bad its like almost $1500 for both, even more for the "performance" versions from ER.

I have a feeling that extra oil cooler with the Cpe IC is cheap crap and probably wouldnt end up giving you much gain at all. That and the Cpe IC is about 250-300 c.inches less core space and an inch less in depth and just not as sexy in the connector, piping and fitting department. I got my new HPF IC from Lutz for $900 shipped. Give em a ring.

[jeremydgreat]

One thing I'm concerned about, is the smaller diameter of the stock O rings where the intercooler installs. Many aftermarket IC's opt for larger silicone tubes and clamps at the connection points. If I'm planning on getting downpipes and less restrictive exhaust- will this become my new bottleneck?

[thez99]

Originally Posted by jeremydgreat

One thing I'm concerned about, is the smaller diameter of the stock O rings where the intercooler installs. Many aftermarket IC's opt for larger silicone tubes and clamps at the connection points. If I'm planning on getting downpipes and less restrictive exhaust- will this become my new bottleneck?

The stock IC connections are not so damn "tight and bottleneckish" as some portray them. I dont even think theyre even smaller than another other aftermarket piping, and if so perhaps only by a few mm. I think the only thing aftermarket piping like the ER ones give is a slightly smoother angle and internal shape. Stocks are fine. Now if you're going to be pushing 400+hp with way over stock boost, then perhaps you would want to go with the ER piping, etc. Otherwise in my opinion, the stock connections are the best way to go/no leakage/no slipping crappy silicon pipes.

[Kamal]

Originally Posted by jeremydgreat

One thing I'm concerned about, is the smaller diameter of the stock O rings where the intercooler installs. Many aftermarket IC's opt for larger silicone tubes and clamps at the connection points. If I'm planning on getting downpipes and less restrictive exhaust- will this become my new bottleneck?

I believe you can order the HPF intercooler with the silicon tube and T-clamps that other IC kits offer. The c-clamps are great tho, makes for easy install/removal, and honestly, I don't think that it's a bottleneck at all.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by Kamal

I believe you can order the HPF intercooler with the silicon tube and T-clamps that other IC kits offer. The c-clamps are great tho, makes for easy install/removal, and honestly, I don't think that it's a bottleneck at all.

Theyre not just for ease of install, theyre there for no leakage. Silicon piping for intercoolers has always been a no no in my book. High pressure tubing leading to and from the turbos and intercooler attached with silicon flexible tubing and t clamps? Fuck that..

[stevenc]

i have the CPE intercooler. Intercooler is very nice with nice flowing connections and angles. Oil cooler is tucked so high up under the bumper support that i wonder if it even does anything for me...

[GaryS]

I've done track days in October, April, May and June since I installed the cpe fmic/oc, and so far my oil temps haven't gone above 250. I'm booked for 7/23-24 and 8/6-7, so we'll see.

[BahamaBart]

Monitor the marketplace and buy the first good IC that appears at a good price. Consider other brands as well - AA, ETS, ect.......

side comment - it seems that those that really track there cars upgrade the oil cooler. Research oil coolers and put the savings toward it if you determine you need one.

[moveswiftly]

HPF

[evilstib]

HPF - It's what I'm buying!

[scott135i]

Upgrade JB3 to JB4 for starters....

[jeremydgreat]

Originally Posted by scott135i

Upgrade JB3 to JB4 for starters....

Sending in my JB3 for the upgrade to JB4 today. :-)

Also just ordered some CP-E downpipes and Maddad midpipes. Spending way too much money today. Gah!

But hey, I'm curious- how come you threw that advice out there? Does it relate to the IC discussion or was it just a general piece of advice? Either way, thanks!

[OneThreeFive]

HPF has my vote

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Those OEM couplers are pretty restrictive. Not a fan of using them unless you really need to save the extra 5 minutes of install time.

Mike

[thez99]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Those OEM couplers are pretty restrictive. Not a fan of using them unless you really need to save the extra 5 minutes of install time.

Mike

Explain how they are so restrictive? Its hard plastic, not gonna flex like silicon. The tubing is basically the same size as the silicon piping on most other IC's. The stock connection is a leak-proof seal, silicon tubing and t-clamps, isnt..And as far as the bends, etc. in the stock piping, ive seen WAY worse setups with other FI cars (tighter bends, shallower piping, etc.)

Like i said earlier, unless you're planning on running 400+hp with ALOT more boost over stock on this engine, theres no need to worry about the piping, the much higher gain and efficiency comes from the Intercooler itself and it's core.

P.S. Ive seen instructions for installing other intercooler that replace the stock piping and some need to cut the inlet stock piping to fit the silicon shit on there, that doesnt take 5 minutes...that and I want something I can revert back to stock if need be without problem.

[Kamal]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Those OEM couplers are pretty restrictive. Not a fan of using them unless you really need to save the extra 5 minutes of install time.

Mike

Care to expand on that? Is there any data to back up that claim? I think the "extra 5 minutes" of install time is quite the stretch tho...

[RnmEvo9]

Originally Posted by thez99

Explain how they are so restrictive? Its hard plastic, not gonna flex like silicon. The tubing is basically the same size as the silicon piping on most other IC's. The stock connection is a leak-proof seal, silicon tubing and t-clamps, isnt..And as far as the bends, etc. in the stock piping, ive seen WAY worse setups with other FI cars (tighter bends, shallower piping, etc.)

If you take a good look at them, it turns out to be very obvious that they obstruct flow. A coupler that is less than 2 inches can't be good for flow no matter what. Helix, ETS or anything that gets rid of that coupler gets my vote. I went with Helix!

Oh and btw, silicone tubing + t-bolt clamps = FTW! Won't ever have to worry about blowing off clamps with that.