How I Scored a Fabulous Deal from the Comfort of My Easy Chair

[0002s]

Originally Posted by adrian's bmw

The production number is the precursor to the VIN. It's the DNA for the order.

No DNA, no offspring.

Production Number says WHAT?

You never saw Wayne's World did you....:biggrin:




I guess we now have to call it: "Payne's World" of no production number.

[Fast Kiwi]

Originally Posted by 0002s

Production Number says WHAT?

You never saw Wayne's World did you....:biggrin:




I guess we now have to call it: "Payne's World" of no production number.

well, I guess we'll see. As of 430pm today there is no such production #. I'm out of the office tomorrow but I may have to pop in JUST to see the end result of this.

[robert.payne]

Originally Posted by SCA1

So here's my update. After being told by a couple dealers in my vicinity that no way in heck I could get a 135i for under MSRP, I read Robert's post a couple days ago about what I'm calling the "Payne Method." Decided to give it a shot. Nothing to lose, right?

However, because I don't want to drive my car home from south Carolina to California, I just sent my email/FAX out to 14 dealers within 100 miles of my home. About half didn't respond. a couple said "good luck getting THAT price," and countered at MSRP. A few countered below MSRP, at anything from $500 to $1900 below MSRP. One dealer accepted my offer at $2500 below MSRP. Yeah, I know, not as aggressive as Robert's $2750 below, but how can one hope to match the master on the first try?

Anyway, the OTHER great news is that the car goes into production next WEEK with late May target delivery!

SCA1,

Congratulations on getting an awesome deal!

That's the reason I started this thread in the first place.

-robert

[robert.payne]

Originally Posted by 0002s

Production Number says WHAT?

I guess we now have to call it: "Payne's World" of no production number.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So my CA sent the following email this afternoon:

Robert

I have run into a little problem. For some reason on my open order unit, I cannot equip your vehicle with the lemon interior. On an order that will be built in May, I can build with the lemon Interior. What that means is a little longer wait for the lemon interior, unless you change to another interior color.

At your convenience give me a call or email and we can discuss further. Thanks

When I spoke with him on the phone, he said he can definitely get my order placed in May. However, he still wants to make a few phone calls to see if he can figure out what's going on with the computer. He said he may even try to trade with another dealer for an April slot.

As much as I'd like to get the car right away, waiting another few weeks really isn't that big a deal. Since I'm a glass-is-half-full kind of guy, I've no doubt that things will work out.:smile:

-robert

[adrian's bmw]

Originally Posted by robert.payne

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So my CA sent the following email this afternoon:



When I spoke with him on the phone, he said he can definitely get my order placed in May. However, he still wants to make a few phone calls to see if he can figure out what's going on with the computer. He said he may even try to trade with another dealer for an April slot.

"Robert

I have run into a little problem. For some reason on my open order unit, I cannot equip your vehicle with the lemon interior. On an order that will be built in May, I can build with the lemon Interior. What that means is a little longer wait for the lemon interior, unless you change to another interior color."

At your convenience give me a call or email and we can discuss further. Thanks

As much as I'd like to get the car right away, waiting another few weeks really isn't that big a deal. Since I'm a glass-is-half-full kind of guy, I've no doubt that things will work out.:smile:

-robert

That little problem is not having an allocation. Translation: Overpromise and underdeliver.

Priority 1 Lemon Leather is for sold units/allocations. He can't equip your order because he has no order to put in priority 1! There's no such reason for Lemon to cause a delay in order!! It's the same time as any other upholstery.

Robert, at this point, take the next closest bidder that actually has an allocation for April or May and has enough product ordering knowledge to order you the Lemon interior with no make believe delay and move on. It'll be the best bump in price you'll ever spend rather than hanging on the shoestring of a promise for an allocation that may not ever come.

I'm sorry, Robert, but not only does this smell like BS, it is BS.

There's the confession: "He said he may trade with another dealer for an April slot." Dead give away- no April production, no May production, no deal. It takes giving a 135i to get a 135i coupe in dealer transfer world, so there's therein lies the caveat.

Just looking out. You gave me a shot by sending me a faxed opportunity. If I can't help you get one myself, I'll unselfishly help you through this rigmarole.

[SCA1]

The Payne Method has just resulted in a completed, signed order form, at $2500 under MSRP, from a dealer within 1 hour of my home. This process took me 14 faxes, 2 hours of work, and two days of waiting.

I must admit, I was skeptical when I read RP's original post, but it has really worked extremely well. The dealer apparently had to do a little extra work to trade for this allocation, but he got it done pretty quickly. I only started the process two days ago.

BTW, I also now have my 7-digit production number offically in hand! Production starts next week!

Robert, you are the Man! :thumbup:

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by adrian's bmw

There's a difference in being amused and being offended. If a CA takes offense to a low offer, they shouldn't be helping people get cars. Just take in stride and be nice. Negotiation is better than not having no negotiation at all.

I don't see how any offer discussed in this thread can be interpreted as offensive. Unreasonable, well that's debatable but not offensive. Certainly, you should be nice. I am not condoning that people walk into dealerships with baseball bats and threaten their salesman with death, but I am saying that people shouldn't be concerned about offending a salesman. Business is business.

Speaking of offensive, do you know how many times I have been insulted with offers? It is because those common experiences that I have learned to treat this process just like any other. Again, sure I will be friendly but I am also tired of a) the bullshit and b) continually being treated unprofessionally. Because of those experiences, I can say that it is best to cut to the chase and lay out the numbers that I want. If the dealer wants to earn my business, I will give them every opportunity. But I won't waste my time, which is what I think most buyers end up experiencing.

Originally Posted by adrian's bmw

Submissive state for the long lost buddy. That's a good one. There's going to be some clients who love their CA so much, have a great, friendly, and fun business relationship, and want to continue doing business with them. That "submissive state" is actually the desire to do business with a certain individual and some clients will go through great lengths and expense to give that CA the business. For some clients, it's not a transactional purchase and it's more about the relationship, reputation and service and 'who' they're buying from more than just price. Everybody's different and I respect anyone's point of view who thinks otherwise.

That's all gloriously touching but all business deals come down to cost/price. Again, it's not as if you need to be mean or cruel. But no matter which way you look at it, buying a car is just like buying anything else in this world. Buying that particular car (as opposed to a Honda) should be based upon emotion. But the actual financing of a car should always be rational.

Now, I really enjoyed the buying process for my MINI. It was fun and they treated me professionally. If I were buy another MINI, I would look for the same guy. But, I will not go to some great expense to track down someone. Anyone who does is in that submissive state. The reason all lies within expectation. The reason some will go to great lengths is based upon the fact that most buyers expect a bad experience. That's why buying a car is a process that is generally loathed. The truth is that buying a car should be a good experience. Therefore, you should never go to a great expense to do business with someone when your expectations should be met. You should get good business with any salesman.

I mention all of this because it has become blatantly obvious that most people have been forced to be so passive that they won't even ask for a good deal.

[adrian's bmw]

Originally Posted by MPower

I don't see how any offer discussed in this thread can be interpreted as offensive. Unreasonable, well that's debatable but not offensive. Certainly, you should be nice. I am not condoning that people walk into dealerships with baseball bats and threaten their salesman with death, but I am saying that people shouldn't be concerned about offending a salesman. Business is business.

Speaking of offensive, do you know how many times I have been insulted with offers? It is because those common experiences that I have learned to treat this process just like any other. Again, sure I will be friendly but I am also tired of a) the bullshit and b) continually being treated unprofessionally. Because of those experiences, I can say that it is best to cut to the chase and lay out the numbers that I want. If the dealer wants to earn my business, I will give them every opportunity. But I won't waste my time, which is what I think most buyers end up experiencing.

That's all gloriously touching but all business deals come down to cost/price. Again, it's not as if you need to be mean or cruel. But no matter which way you look at it, buying a car is just like buying anything else in this world. Buying that particular car (as opposed to a Honda) should be based upon emotion. But the actual financing of a car should always be rational.

Now, I really enjoyed the buying process for my MINI. It was fun and they treated me professionally. If I were buy another MINI, I would look for the same guy. But, I will not go to some great expense to track down someone. Anyone who does is in that submissive state. The reason all lies within expectation. The reason some will go to great lengths is based upon the fact that most buyers expect a bad experience. That's why buying a car is a process that is generally loathed. The truth is that buying a car should be a good experience. Therefore, you should never go to a great expense to do business with someone when your expectations should be met. You should get good business with any salesman.

I mention all of this because it has become blatantly obvious that most people have been forced to be so passive that they won't even ask for a good deal.

My response on the offensive aspect had nothing to do with this thread, but about the mere fact that CA's or clients, for that matter, should get offended at offers. You're right. At the end of the day, it's business. More importantly, business should be mutually agreeable in spirit, value and fairness. There's always the subjective part of all those aspects of conducting business.

[adrian's bmw]

Originally Posted by SCA1

The Payne Method has just resulted in a completed, signed order form, at $2500 under MSRP, from a dealer within 1 hour of my home. This process took me 14 faxes, 2 hours of work, and two days of waiting.

I must admit, I was skeptical when I read RP's original post, but it has really worked extremely well. The dealer apparently had to do a little extra work to trade for this allocation, but he got it done pretty quickly. I only started the process two days ago.

BTW, I also now have my 7-digit production number offically in hand! Production starts next week!

Robert, you are the Man! :thumbup:

See, at least you got a production number. While I don't see the logic in giving away a 1 Series for $2,500 off, that's the dealer's business whom you dealt with. Hope they didn't make a mistake.

And it's not the Payne Method, it's the Rizzo Method. It's been around for several years. While you thump your chest at offer you received, Robert is having a "Payne"ful time getting a production number.

SCA1, would you mind sharing with us who the lucky BMW center is that earned your business and proof that they offered you $2,500. We're all curious. :biggrin:

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by robert.payne

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So my CA sent the following email this afternoon:



When I spoke with him on the phone, he said he can definitely get my order placed in May. However, he still wants to make a few phone calls to see if he can figure out what's going on with the computer. He said he may even try to trade with another dealer for an April slot.

As much as I'd like to get the car right away, waiting another few weeks really isn't that big a deal. Since I'm a glass-is-half-full kind of guy, I've no doubt that things will work out.:smile:

-robert

The reason he can't get Lemon on that order is because he has to change the selection from dealer car to customer car. I had the same issue with my dealer. There's a selection in the ordering software that has to be changed before it will allow priority one options. I've seen about 5 posts about this since I ordered my car. It seems like a lot of the guys entering the orders don't know the ins and outs of the system very well.

[hayabusa55]

Originally Posted by adrian's bmw

While you thump your chest at offer you received, Robert is having a "Payne"ful time getting a production number.

I sense Schadenfreude.

[robert.payne]

Originally Posted by hayabusa55

I sense Schadenfreude.

What a cool word. I had to look it up.

In the military, we call it stealing someone else's happiness. The law of happiness conservation states that there is only so much happiness in the world. Happiness can neither be created nor destroyed. In order to gain happiness, you must steal someone else's.

[Nixon]

Originally Posted by MPower

walk into dealerships with baseball bats and threaten their salesman with death

I'm interested in this method, but I could use some tips. Is that with a wood or an aluminum bat? Is using pine resin or steroids illegal with this method? Will corking the bat score a better deal?

Can we call it the MPower method?

[Imola.ZHP]

Ok, so I skipped from page one to page 6, but I wanted to add to whomever said something about leasing on page one, this method does NOT speak of financing. And I believe it should not. You should first agree to a price, then explore financing options which would include leasing, financing, etc, etc. Most people don't think you can negotiate prices when leasing and I just don't understand why they believe that, your still given the option to buy the car at the end of your lease term, so why wouldn't you negotiate the price up front?

Excellent topic and excellent post. I bought my CPO'd ZHP not quite the same way, but similarly through the internet and I was able to shave a good $5,000 from their asking price. I tried for $6,000 but caved in at $5 because I wanted the car soooo bad, and there were not too many Imola Red's for sale at the time in my area.

For those of us without a zillion dealers near you will have to weigh your offer to distance ratio, is it worth driving 500+ miles to save an additional $500? Probably not by the time you drive there, stay the night and drive back, its just something else to keep in mind.

I'm considering going back to school and with 66,000 miles now on my ZHP, I'm thinking about unloading it and trying to strike a deal on a 135i, I dunno, I might just do it and lease a base, no option, 135i for 3 years, then give it back, or keep it and finance the balance.

[imported_MPower]

Originally Posted by adrian's bmw

My response on the offensive aspect had nothing to do with this thread, but about the mere fact that CA's or clients, for that matter, should get offended at offers.

Here's the problem: regardless of how nice a CA (I'm tired of typing salesman...) is, he/she always knows if a deal is good or bad. Because of that, the consequences of the "offensive action" are significantly different. If the CA offers me an offensive deal, it takes hours to negotiate that original offer down to something reasonable (that is, if I have not already walked away). The same thing does not happen with a client wants an "offensive" price (I still don't know what that could be...). In that case, the numbers quickly go straight to something reasonable.

Because of all of the negotiating that has to take place, normally, to get to a reasonable offer (from my perspective), you have to cut through the bullshit. And sometimes that means that "offensive" offers are made, even though I still don't know how I can offend someone I am trying to pay for a car. The result of that is this: cut through the bullshit. I'd rather risk "offending" a CA than sit in the office for two hours while a get bounced back and forth from CA to finance manager.

Originally Posted by Nixon

I'm interested in this method, but I could use some tips. Is that with a wood or an aluminum bat? Is using pine resin or steroids illegal with this method? Will corking the bat score a better deal?

Can we call it the MPower method?

Though I have never used a bat, there is no question that I have considered using it. It would have to be wood, though, so that when it shatters into a million pieces, the rest of the staff can see the fragments.

Originally Posted by hayabusa55

I sense Schadenfreude.

Indeed.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by imola.zhp

Ok, so I skipped from page one to page 6, but I wanted to add to whomever said something about leasing on page one, this method does NOT speak of financing. And I believe it should not. You should first agree to a price, then explore financing options which would include leasing, financing, etc, etc. Most people don't think you can negotiate prices when leasing and I just don't understand why they believe that, your still given the option to buy the car at the end of your lease term, so why wouldn't you negotiate the price up front?

Excellent topic and excellent post. I bought my CPO'd ZHP not quite the same way, but similarly through the internet and I was able to shave a good $5,000 from their asking price. I tried for $6,000 but caved in at $5 because I wanted the car soooo bad, and there were not too many Imola Red's for sale at the time in my area.

For those of us without a zillion dealers near you will have to weigh your offer to distance ratio, is it worth driving 500+ miles to save an additional $500? Probably not by the time you drive there, stay the night and drive back, its just something else to keep in mind.

I'm considering going back to school and with 66,000 miles now on my ZHP, I'm thinking about unloading it and trying to strike a deal on a 135i, I dunno, I might just do it and lease a base, no option, 135i for 3 years, then give it back, or keep it and finance the balance.

Dude, you've got warranty on your ZHP to 100k miles and you've got a ZHP!!! Imola, no less!!! Keep the ZHP while you go back to school and reward yourself with the 1er after you finish.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by robert.payne

Through USAA (own bank). BMW was willing to offer great financing rates on the 3 series, but not on the 1er.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

just fyi - Pentagon Federal CU has just dropped their rate to 4.25% - https://www.penfed.org/productsAndRa...wAutoLoans.asp , https://www.penfed.org/howToJoin/overview.asp

Congrats on the great deal. :w00t: Hope Adrian's skepticism turns out not to be applicable in this case and you do, in fact, get an order number posthaste.

just reposting this fyi in case you missed it.

[SCA1]

Originally Posted by adrian's bmw

And it's not the Payne Method, it's the Rizzo Method. It's been around for several years. While you thump your chest at offer you received, Robert is having a "Payne"ful time getting a production number.

SCA1, would you mind sharing with us who the lucky BMW center is that earned your business and proof that they offered you $2,500. We're all curious. :biggrin:

As far as I'm concerned, it is and forever will be the Payne Method. Never met Rizzo. Also, I usually don't post anything related to business dealings on the NET, for obvious reasons. So I won't specify the dealer; suffice to say they are in the GREATER SF Bay Area. I got two other good counters from dealers, one of which I gabve to RP in case he wanted to give them a try if things didn't work out with his dealer. The thrid I gave to someone else who asked for help. Regarding "proof", I'll have to think about what I'd have to black out on my order forms in terms of personal info etc to be comfortable posting that. I'll see if I can put something together to post this week.

BTW, my point in my earlier post was to confirm Robet's approach worked exactly as he had described it -- that he was DEAD ON ACCURATE -- not to gloat in any way. Apologies to RP if it was in any way received that way.

[robert.payne]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

just reposting this fyi in case you missed it.

I did gloss right over that. Went to their website, and they are indeed a little more than a point lower than USAA. Thanks for the heads up.

-robert

[robert.payne]

Originally Posted by SCA1

BTW, my point in my earlier post was to confirm Robet's approach worked exactly as he had described it -- that he was DEAD ON ACCURATE -- not to gloat in any way. Apologies to RP if it was in any way received that way.

Not at all. Happy to hear of your success.:thumbup:

-robert

[robert.payne]

Originally Posted by 0002s

You have negotiated the best deal yet on a 135i that BMW Leipzig doesn't even know you want.

They do now. Got production number 669xxxx in hand.

Chalk the delay up to operator error on the computer.

-robert

[0002s]

Originally Posted by robert.payne

They do now. Got production number 669xxxx in hand.

Chalk the delay up to operator error on the computer.

-robert

Glad you are in production. I just had to bust your balls a little. Enjoy the two month wait.

Did you get it from your original dealer....?