Testing the Quaife LSD

[ForesT]

It would be interesting to compare stock vs. quiaf on snow, anyone know if there have been such test?

Last winter it was some problems with the grip in my 135i. I drove my fathers 530xd sometimes and it was sick how well the 4x4 works in the winter. Only when you were breaking you noticed that it was slippery. Maybe it´s time to get a 335xi if this winter will be hard too

Does the quaif really costs about 3,000$ ?!

benjamin84: where in Norway do you live?
I live in Elverum

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by ForesT

It would be interesting to compare stock vs. quiaf on snow, anyone know if there have been such test?

Last winter it was some problems with the grip in my 135i. I drove my fathers 530xd sometimes and it was sick how well the 4x4 works in the winter. Only when you were breaking you noticed that it was slippery. Maybe it´s time to get a 335xi if this winter will be hard too

In my opinion, LSD on snow is about 10% better than open diff at getting started (use DTC), about 10% more twitchy at highway speeds, and 1000% more fun. For practical problems, get snow tires or chains. Get a LSD for fun.

[Haagen-Dazs]

Originally Posted by GaryS

In my opinion, LSD on snow is about 10% better than open diff at getting started (use DTC), about 10% more twitchy at highway speeds, and 1000% more fun. For practical problems, get snow tires or chains. Get a LSD for fun.

What do you mean?

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by Haagen-Dazs

What do you mean?

The back end wants to rotate if your right foot is unsteady. But 10% twitchy is not a lot, and I'm talking about highway speeds on snow, which is not a common situation, and anyone who posts on this forum can easily control it. I should probably stop mentioning it, because it's not a big deal.

[Haagen-Dazs]

Originally Posted by GaryS

The back end wants to rotate if your right foot is unsteady. But 10% twitchy is not a lot, and I'm talking about highway speeds on snow, which is not a common situation, and anyone who posts on this forum can easily control it. I should probably stop mentioning it, because it's not a big deal.

Ah, that's better. I thought it was something more relevant

[The1]

LSD makes a drift feel much more progressive and smooth. The car is easier to read.

you get rid of some of that "snap back" that sometimes happens when coming out of a drift. so in some respects it's much safer.

where you might have a little more trouble leaving your subdivision, but if you're pushing the pedal hard, it's your own fault...

[benjamin84]

Originally Posted by ForesT

It would be interesting to compare stock vs. quiaf on snow, anyone know if there have been such test?

Last winter it was some problems with the grip in my 135i. I drove my fathers 530xd sometimes and it was sick how well the 4x4 works in the winter. Only when you were breaking you noticed that it was slippery. Maybe it´s time to get a 335xi if this winter will be hard too

Does the quaif really costs about 3,000$ ?!

benjamin84: where in Norway do you live?
I live in Elverum

I agree, it would be very interesting to see the difference in traction between a Quaife-kitted 1er and a standard 1er. Just need to find someone with a similar car with similar winter tires

The Quaife cost me, in total, 15.000 NOK. About 11 for the diff including 25% VAT, and 4k for installation at Arctic Trucks.

I live near Drammen (not far from Oslo )

Originally Posted by brunobm

just got my 135i less than a month ago and haven't been able to drive it aggressively (can't call doing donuts in the parking lot aggressive driving haha).

please enlighten me on the one wheel burnout

The one wheel burnout or "One Wheel Peel" as it's also known is due to the nature of an open diff. This setup will always send the same torque to both rear wheels. And if you have differing traction levels, as you usually do, the wheel with the least traction will spin first, leading to even less traction on it. Then you end up going slowly forward with one wheel smoking like crazy

[pavelitto]

Originally Posted by benjamin84

This setup will always send the same torque to both rear wheels.

This is actually not right, the open diff (standard) means that the torque is not always divided equally to both wheels- this would be 100% locked diff like in proper 4x4 where you can 'lock' the diff and see it when one wheel is of the ground and other on the ground- they both rotate at the same speed.
Open diff allows more torque to be sent to the wheel with less traction- that's why when turning in and accelerating the inside wheel spins more because there is less traction and so the torque goes there more than to the outward wheel.
so if you actually lifted one back wheel of 1er the car shouldn't move at all because all of the torque would go to that wheel, however due to the dsc and all that electronics the lifted wheel would be locked in order for the open diff to transfer some power to the wheel on the ground.

sorry, long explanation of something basic

[N55_BBM]

so can you still do some decent drifting without the LSD? I'd love to learn how to do it properly

[benjamin84]

Originally Posted by pavelitto

This is actually not right[...]

I'm sorry, but your explanation is not right:

An open diff, by design, will send EQUAL TORQUE to both wheels. Many people believe this is the same as EQUAL SPEED, but that is not the case. As an open diff always sends the same torque to both wheels, the wheel with the most grip can only get as much torque as the wheel with the least grip is able to put down on the ground.

In an extreme case, on wheel off the ground, that means almost zero torque to either wheel, however as one wheel has no resistance this will spin around wildly, while the other wheel will not move at all. The wheels are still, despite the difference in speed, receiving the exact same torque.

A 100% locked diff will have both wheels spinning at EQUAL SPEED. Torque will then be a function of which wheel has most grip. In the same extreme case, one wheel off the ground, 100% of the torque will go to the wheel which is still on the ground.

Edit: Your conclusions are right regarding what would happen, the reasoning is just not correct
Edit 2: Not sure if my explanation makes much sense so here is a link to Auto How Stuff Works.

[benjamin84]

Originally Posted by brunobm

so can you still do some decent drifting without the LSD? I'd love to learn how to do it properly

Find a big wet carpark and practice practice practice I had the benefit of being able to try all this out on snow first (and have been since I learnt to drive 10 years ago) which is a much easier way to learn as everything happens much slower

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by benjamin84

I think the 120d is the smallest engine they do it for Enough torque for it to be warranted though (350Nm in the 120d, 400Nm in a 135i), especially in the wet or on snow


The Quaife cost me £890, about $1400, and £400 ($620) to mount. Definitely worth it for me, and I plan to do the same mod to every future BMW I own Compared to the cost of a 135i I would presume it's fairly negligible? Mind you a 135i is $130.000 in Norway so it might compare differently in the US.

A N54 Steptronic 135i would be the same cost as your 120d.... but the manual and newer DCT 135i's have a welded diff so cost quite a bit more to fit, with VAT it will be nearly £2200 fitted here in the UK.

Still worth it though, I had a Quaife diff fitted to my Sunbeam-Lotus over 20 years ago and it was excellent

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by benjamin84

Find a big wet carpark and practice practice practice I had the benefit of being able to try all this out on snow first (and have been since I learnt to drive 10 years ago) which is a much easier way to learn as everything happens much slower

yeah but this is the united states here and it's like there's a cop hiding behind every corner just waiting to bust someone, can't stand how it works..

i tried in a wet parking lot the other day but it was too loud and i stopped after maybe 2 tries because i'd probably have a cop writing me a ticket in under 30 seconds

[ForesT]

Originally Posted by brunobm

yeah but this is the united states here and it's like there's a cop hiding behind every corner just waiting to bust someone, can't stand how it works..

i tried in a wet parking lot the other day but it was too loud and i stopped after maybe 2 tries because i'd probably have a cop writing me a ticket in under 30 seconds

You should move to Sweden, we don´t have many cops outside the cities
I also don´t think that you can get a ticket for that kind of thing here

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by ForesT

You should move to Sweden, we don´t have many cops outside the cities
I also don´t think that you can get a ticket for that kind of thing here

not to mention the women you have

[Qbone]

Originally Posted by ForesT

You should move to Sweden, we don´t have many cops outside the cities
I also don´t think that you can get a ticket for that kind of thing here

haha true! i drove around a week without the front bumper til they caught me :P

[ForesT]

I found this video, wonder if the difference is so big?

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by ForesT

I found this video, wonder if the difference is so big?

The LSD gives the car a higher drifting factor...it's evident after seeing how the 328 gets sideways almost on any corner, whereas the 335 slides the rear around as well but at a much lesser angle. Awesome vid!

[benjamin84]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

The LSD gives the car a higher drifting factor...it's evident after seeing how the 328 gets sideways almost on any corner, whereas the 335 slides the rear around as well but at a much lesser angle. Awesome vid!

If that is the vid I think it is with the snow comparison (I'm at work so youtube is blocked) then I reckon the reason you can't see as much difference is the fact that it's on snow. The slippery surface will mask the rather abrupt intervention of the ESP/e-diff system and allow the car to act more like it's got a proper LSD

My car, before the diff was fitted, would also slide around nicely on snow, however you couldn't hold drifts at smaller angles as the outside wheel would simply stop spinning. I think you can see that on the 335i in this vid, it's either going straight, or he has to pitch it into the corner quite hard.

Mind you, in the comments (either to that vid or a similar one by the same guys) you can see they mention that the 328 get's much better traction during and out of corners I hope I can report the same in a few months time! (Or earlier, it was only +5 this morning!!)

[benjamin84]

Amusing, I just found this vid on Youtube demonstrating exactly what an LSD prevents:

120d One Wheel Peeling on Youtube

[N55_BBM]

Originally Posted by benjamin84

Amusing, I just found this vid on Youtube demonstrating exactly what an LSD prevents:

120d One Wheel Peeling on Youtube

ahhh ok i take that's the famous wheel burnout

[pavelitto]

On this picture you can see me drifting before I had the Quaife fitted. You can clearly see that the outer wheel is also spinning (rubber marks behind it) So I was wondering if 135i e-diff somewhat worked then or is is just because there is enough power to spin both wheel anyways? (Or maybe drifting is different than donut burnout's)

As far as I remember before the Quaife I only experienced the e-diff engaging once when I was drifting on ice v. slow about 15km/h but with big angle I could hear from time to time this sort of abs sound from the inner back wheel. I don't think it worked any other time. I have to wait till the snow and ice so I can test the Quaife in same condition i.e. ice and very slow/ big angle drifting

P.S DSC completely off in all of the above