Dci vs stock box with drop in panel filter ??

[achilles3000]

I just ordered some goodies along with the bm dci..I had someone tell me today ,I will loose power removing the stock airbox for the bm dci..they say the problem is that it will generate more heat under the hood and suck it all back in the intake charge resulting in power loss and extra heat soak..
I know when I put a intake in my evo and every turbo car I owned,the turbo spooled faster,harder,and made more power across the rpm range..How many people are runnig the bm dci and whats your experience with it over the stock box??

[infinitekidM2C]

Welcome; yeah its a hotly debated issue which is better..do a forum search as everything that can be said has...nothing conclusive either way

[Top Gon]

General consensus says that if you're not tuned you don't need a dci

[achilles3000]

Originally Posted by Basheezy

General consensus says that if you're not tuned you don't need a dci

In the goodies involves a tune of course , been in the game for a long time that's why I was skeptical about this comment made to me today. I know the more air you feed a motor,and with turbos the better it works!!A car engine is like a huge air pump. I know BMW puts a lot of r&d in their cars so that's why I asked this question.They deisgn their air boxes so good,maybe it is possible in loosing power,but having turbos makes me double think this..I see the stock air box as a restriction to the turbos period!

[Top Gon]

Originally Posted by achilles3000

In the goodies involves a tune of course , been in the game for a long time that's why I was skeptical about this comment made to me today. I know the more air you feed a motor,and with turbos the better it works!!A car engine is like a huge air pump. I know BMW puts a lot of r&d in their cars so that's why I asked this question.They deisgn their air boxes so good,maybe it is possible in loosing power,but having turbos makes me double think this..I see the stock air box as a restriction to the turbos period!

Ahh i see. With a tune yes it's better to run DCIs than the airbox because it doesn't flow as well. Hot air is gonna go into the engine regardless because compressed air (via turbos) is hot anyways.

[BadOneThreeFive]

I can see why some say that it will suck up more hot air due to it being more exposed. But my 2 cents on this is if you have a bigger FMIC and run meth heat soak wont be a problem. Plus the more boost you run the better air flow you need. If you dont run a tune then a DCI is a waste of money. Here is a thread from a guy that did dyno test comparing differnt Maps with JB4 and with and without the DCI. According to the Dyno charts the more boost and mods you have the more gains your gonna get with out of your DCI. The last dyno run he did with meth and JB4 map 3 and got a 20HP and 24lbs gain. Pretty damn good so yea i would say having a DCI is a deffinite +.

See for yourselfs...


http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=549325

[ErvGotti]

I do agree with everyone that the more boost you run the DCI will be a better choice than the stock box, but the DCI's are far from the best option as far as intakes. I know that Former Boosted IS on E90 post ran a IAT test comparing the Stett intake VS the DCI and showed an improvement of 15-20 degrees. He didnt do a Dyno because he wanted to show real world conditions and his logs showed that wastegate duration were the same with the DCI's and Stett, meaning the turbo's were working equally the same for the two.

IMHO the best design is the Dinan intake. Yes it is effen expensive, but it flows better than stock, takes that air not from the hot ass engine bay, and looks the best. The Mr.5 intake is a DIY that most are running that is basically the dinan intake. Mr.5's log showed that his intake reduced wastegate duration over stock, meaning quicker spool up and if I finally get some free time will complete this side project.

If you want a cheap option for a FBO car running meth than DCI's are the way to go as far as bang for the buck, me though I hate the way they look under the hood. It looks cheap on a 40k car and let's be honest most people that BS with you always want to see what's under the hood.

[CrustyNoodle]

I think you need to make this decision based on more that just power.

The oiled cloth filters may give slightly better performance (though most reviews seem a little questionable for real world performance) but you need to realise that it comes at the cost of filtration performance.

Here is some interesting reading that analyses filtration performance.... You need to ask yourself what price you put on a few extra (dubious) HP.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/

Also, I'm yet to find any information on the net that has analysed and determined exactly where the stock set up has it's greatest pressure drop - is it in the cold air pipe, is it across the paper filter or is it air box entry or exit.
For heavens sake do some simple testing before you go throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[Dackelone]

Instead of DCI's you could buy a DINAN ($$$) or Alpina (even more $$$$ and unobtainable) or a Mr.5 intake sort of like this one...

[RnmEvo9]

Stock box for me. Can't stand the intake noise anymore, however I would be open to that mr. 5 intake if it actually fits in our cramped up 135i engine bay as opposed to 335i engine bay.

[achilles3000]

IMO even with the dinan and the mr 5 Intakes are still restrictive,there's only so much air you can cram in the stock box!I think the dci is really good when doing a stage 2 map and deeper,it really let's the turbos breath along with the motor at higher boost levels..I would like to see the mr 5 and the dci on the dyno and street logged iat,s dynos are used for a tool not real world results..street = wins not dynos!

[infinitekidM2C]

let them eat air i say...the turbos that is...assuming u've a tune

Heatsoak is an issue in traffic or congested areas but then u prolly aint gunning it.

Definitely leave in the cold air ram extension if you go DCI..and you should be fine. I enjoy the better throttle response and it feels like it pulls a little better.

[ErvGotti]

Take from this what you will it's the Stett intake Vs DCI's. Yes it's not the stock box, but it's a very good review and show's that cooler intake temps does make a difference if both intakes flows just as good. But if you plan on running meth and dont care for the looks DCI all the way.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...CAI+versus+DCI

Highlights:
-The data is very clear here. The BMS DCI had a peak AIT that was 8 degrees hotter on run 1, 10 degrees hotter on run 2, and 8 degrees hotter on run three. This is an average of 8.7 degrees hotter for the BMS DCI over the STETT Performance CAI over the three runs.

-It must be noted that this testing was done with an Active Autowerke Intercooler that has an efficiency of 80%-90% versus the stock intercooler with an efficiency near 50%. The difference in AITs will be magnified if you have a stock intercooler.

Second, the JB3 would lower boost on the high end if the engine was not getting enough flow from the intakes. The boost was logged and identical between the WOT runs.

-That makes the STETT CAI 0.22 seconds faster through the 2nd to 3rd gear pull. Actually this is almost exactly what Terry predicted.

This then means the STETT CAI produced 8 degrees colder AITs in that run and the car was 0.22 seconds faster from 2nd through 3rd gear.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by Basheezy

General consensus says that if you're not tuned you don't need a dci

I dont see how this makes sense at all..

The whole purpose of a DCI for a forced induction engine is to pull more air in, faster and with less restriction. Whether you have a tune or not this is beneficial for a turbo'd engine. Ive said this same shit in so many threads, its amazing how many people still think DCI's are the worst thing for our engines when theyre wrong. The HEATSOAK comes from the less adequate intercoolers. The intake pulls air in thru to the turbo's where once they spool, the air they process is already going to be hotter than the ambient air outside, so lowering the intake temps on a FI car does VERY little to nothing at all for performance. HOWEVER, increasing airflow and having less restriction DOES because it allows the turbos to spool faster and more efficiently therefore breathing better. Sure the DCI compared to our stock intake wont net you massive hp numbers or anything but it will NOT cause heatsoak. If you are driving on a 95 degree day and you are beating the shit out of this car with the stock intercooler, of course you will eventually start to see some slight soak and power loss without allowing the engine to cooldown..so get a bigger IC!

You will love the DCI, like i said it wont net you much if any hp gains, but you will notice faster throttle and acceleration the higher you go in the rpms, hence if you're doing 60 in 6th and jack it back to 4th you will be at 100 in no time with your hair flung back.

I would recommend going with a better IC especially if you live in an area with higher temps, it will make a difference there for sure.

[thez99]

And for gods sake...do you REALLY think that 8 degree's makes a damn bit of difference under our hoods on a daily drive when the temps in there are pushing 200 degrees??? It makes NO difference, however the open less restrictive flow DOES. And the super insane expensive intakes like Dinan and Afe with their heatshields I bet you hardly make a few less degrees difference compared to the BMS and yes they are def just bout as restrictive as the stock intake and cost more than 4 times what BMS does...why is this so difficult?

[ErvGotti]

Originally Posted by Basheezy

General consensus says that if you're not tuned you don't need a dci

Originally Posted by thez99

I dont see how this makes sense at all..

I dont see how you do not understand this? The stock box has more than adequate airflow for the 8 psi that the stock tuned turbo's are pulling.

Have you done any testing? Any Logs you care to share? Did you even read the review that Former Boosted IS that I linked, put up with Logs in almost comparable conditions? He was doing this with an Upgraded FMIC with 80-90% effeciency compared to stock. It would have been a hell of alot more than 8 degrees with the stock intercooler.

By your logic I could slap in even bigger DCI's than BMS sells and make even more horsepower. Which we all know is false. What you are forgetting is that the runners that connect from the intake to the turbo's is flat and pancaked in the engine bay. So you can only flow so much more air before those runners become restrictive.

Mr.5's logs that showed that his DIY Dinan intake had the same wastegate duration as DCI's, meaning that his DIY intake flowed just as good as DCI's.

BTW AFE and Injen are just fancy DCI's and not true CAI.

Again I reiterate if you plan on running meth and dont care about the looks DCI will be the best bang for your buck, but DCI's are not the best intake out there.

[ErvGotti]

Originally Posted by thez99

And for gods sake...do you REALLY think that 8 degree's makes a damn bit of difference under our hoods on a daily drive when the temps in there are pushing 200 degrees??? It makes NO difference, however the open less restrictive flow DOES. And the super insane expensive intakes like Dinan and Afe with their heatshields I bet you hardly make a few less degrees difference compared to the BMS and yes they are def just bout as restrictive as the stock intake and cost more than 4 times what BMS does...why is this so difficult?

Quoted from Mr Terry himself seller of the BMS DCI


http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...ghlight=intake

Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS

That design looks much better than your first one! Looking at the wastegate duty cycles clearly shows the compressors are working less with the Mr.5 intake and DCI compared to the stock airbox. I know you went with single 3rd gear pull to avoid shifting variance, but a 60-130 run might show a more realistic spread. With only 4-5 seconds its hard to see the real performance difference between the three. But at 9-10 seconds we'd see more of a spread.

PS. The testing seems to indicate what we saw in our testing. Specifically that there was a slightly potential advantage with the stock filter + 2nd filter compared to the DCI. But our testing was 40-120 and we saw less than .1th gain and only on some runs. After a few tests back and forth we concluded the open element was about as good, easier to install, and less expensive. It is possible your new design out flows our development design though. Maybe I'll hack up another airbox and make a Mr5 replica for testing.

Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS

I like the Mr.5 option also but it's just not practical to mass produce.

Again the DCI's are the best bang for the buck for a tuned car, but they are deffinetly not the best intake out there and IMHO they really look cheap and out of place on a 40k car.

[achilles3000]

Originally Posted by thez99

And for gods sake...do you REALLY think that 8 degree's makes a damn bit of difference under our hoods on a daily drive when the temps in there are pushing 200 degrees??? It makes NO difference, however the open less restrictive flow DOES. And the super insane expensive intakes like Dinan and Afe with their heatshields I bet you hardly make a few less degrees difference compared to the BMS and yes they are def just bout as restrictive as the stock intake and cost more than 4 times what BMS does...why is this so difficult?

Exactly what I was thinking,good post!!If terry sells them on his site, their proven and work!!!!!!!!The more you feed the big pump(ENGINE)the more power you'll make,it just makes sense.

[achilles3000]

Originally Posted by ianf2002

Most ppl do it for the noise IMO, doubt you'd see more than 5-10HP increase with a DCI, just more hot air. A drop in oiled cotton even less HP increase.

There's a reason why manufacturers use paper filters, it filters dirt!

Drop in filters are the worst for the mafs imo..I rather run the stock paper instead of killing the maf with oil,unless I was using a bmc or a dry panel type.

[ErvGotti]

Originally Posted by achilles3000

Drop in filters are the worst for the mafs imo..I rather run the stock paper instead of killing the maf with oil,unless I was using a bmc or a dry panel type.

You obviously have not done your reaserch with the N54 engine. The N54's do not have MAF sensors. They are equipped with a MAP sensor located on the charge pipe. The minimal oil that you would injest on a oiled drop in filter would be burned up in the turbo's way before it hit's the MAP sensor.

[achilles3000]

Meant to write map sensor..lol.

[thez99]

Originally Posted by ErvGotti

Quoted from Mr Terry himself seller of the BMS DCI


http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...ghlight=intake





Again the DCI's are the best bang for the buck for a tuned car, but they are deffinetly not the best intake out there and IMHO they really look cheap and out of place on a 40k car.

So you think itd just be better to slap on a $500 intake because this car costs more money? You think the BMS looks too cheap for this car?? Thats exactly why I wont take you're opinions seriously..

Sometimes basic is the best way to go