BMW Performance Steering Wheel, Rotors and SSK

[WAY]

Originally Posted by professor

after reading that eurotuner article on the 135 project i now really want to put the H&R sway bars on but it looks like a daunting install. what do you think andrew?

Prof, my concern with a thicker sway is that it will reduce the contact patch to the road on bumpier roads (which may be typical of back roads that you would "fang" on). I believe in the principal of working on the end that is the issue. Ie, if the car is understeering, then increase the grip on the front. So I am going to try 225 tyres and increase the negative camber through either a camber plate with V3 or using the Clubsport coilovers. If this doesn't solve the issue, then I will look into the stiffer sway options. Last night I took the car on a late night "cruise" (ahem) and I could feel the understeer through the slow corners (didn't push hard at all on the fast stuff). But you have to be driving rather hard to have the understeering issue. For those who just drive the car in the city and suburbs, forget what you read. You won't have much of an issue unless you are driving way beyond the limits of the roads anyway.

[takahashi]

Last night road is bumpy enough. Yes the bumpy road will kill some contact patch in the outside tyres because you reduced the load. But remember you may make some significant gain on the inner tyres but is all but lost in a poor sway bar system.

The solution is to have a good sway, and you have hopping issue on the bumpy road and soften the suspension by a few clicks.

BTW, I was asked yesterday by my passenger that "are we going to crash tonight?" So I back off my 6/10th. Although I have not done spirited driving for a little while now WAY, but I still made a grown man scared.

[takahashi]

BTW, love the steering wheel WAY, get it (evil smile).

And I have been dreaming of the 135i convertible. I need a cutie in the passenger seat though.

[Riss Racing]

Looks amazing!

[professor]

Wayne, there is a lot of confusion out on the forum on this issue. Negative camber should counter the effects of centrifugal force to enable a larger contact patch, but the size of the contact patch is determined by both camber of the turn and the degree of negative camber of the wheels as well as the speed of the car. Why would it do anything for straight and bumpy roads? So camber-based handling solutions depend on more than just one variable.

At regular speeds my guess is that the sway bars will help those who do not like the rolly-polly sensation too much. The trick as lots have been saying on the forum is to find the correct pair - not too much so that you have a plank of wood with tyres connected to it. The H&R solution seems good in this regard. My ideal solution would be KWV3 with H&R sways but I do not want to lower my car by anywhere near an inch. The only non-lowering option seems to be TCKline or CC (still minimal lowering). One of the mods suggested KONI sport single-adjustables specified at their highest setting. :iono:

Originally Posted by WAY

Prof, my concern with a thicker sway is that it will reduce the contact patch to the road on bumpier roads (which may be typical of back roads that you would "fang" on). I believe in the principal of working on the end that is the issue. Ie, if the car is understeering, then increase the grip on the front. So I am going to try 225 tyres and increase the negative camber through either a camber plate with V3 or using the Clubsport coilovers. If this doesn't solve the issue, then I will look into the stiffer sway options. Last night I took the car on a late night "cruise" (ahem) and I could feel the understeer through the slow corners (didn't push hard at all on the fast stuff). But you have to be driving rather hard to have the understeering issue. For those who just drive the car in the city and suburbs, forget what you read. You won't have much of an issue unless you are driving way beyond the limits of the roads anyway.

[Zuzu]

Hey there Prateek...have to say you have the hottest looking car on this forum..:thumbup:

Your mods look fantastic mate..

[AussieRacer]

Originally Posted by professor

At regular speeds my guess is that the sway bars will help those who do not like the rolly-polly sensation too much.

Unless you personally are having an issue with rolly-polly (or body roll/weight transfer), I wouldn't be modifying it cause others are having issues.

And to be honest lowering the car's centre of gravity is the best proper solution to stop weight transfer issues.

[professor]

thanks joe. depending on a few decisions i have to make at the end of the year (which would decide the role of my 1er) i may then turn to some serious performance mods.

aussieracer, yes, of course lowering the COG would reduce body roll because the centrifugal forces are being transfered outwards along a flatter axis. the trouble is that lowering would mean a lot more scraping and hence i am thinking of the sway bars.

[WAY]

Originally Posted by professor

Wayne, there is a lot of confusion out on the forum on this issue. Negative camber should counter the effects of centrifugal force to enable a larger contact patch, but the size of the contact patch is determined by both camber of the turn and the degree of negative camber of the wheels as well as the speed of the car. Why would it do anything for straight and bumpy roads? So camber-based handling solutions depend on more than just one variable.

At regular speeds my guess is that the sway bars will help those who do not like the rolly-polly sensation too much. The trick as lots have been saying on the forum is to find the correct pair - not too much so that you have a plank of wood with tyres connected to it. The H&R solution seems good in this regard. My ideal solution would be KWV3 with H&R sways but I do not want to lower my car by anywhere near an inch. The only non-lowering option seems to be TCKline or CC (still minimal lowering). One of the mods suggested KONI sport single-adjustables specified at their highest setting. :iono:

Prof, I was of course refering to cornering only. Why would I worry about straight road? But when you corner and the road is bumpy, a stiff sway solution may cause your car to skip more.

The suspension is going to be your best friend to counter rolly polly. Couple this with a lower COG (even a 1/2 inch drop makes a massive difference when you are talking about a load of a load of hundreds of kg), you won't need a thicker sway.

[WAY]

Originally Posted by takahashi

BTW, love the steering wheel WAY, get it (evil smile).

And I have been dreaming of the 135i convertible. I need a cutie in the passenger seat though.

Put one of my God daughters there then. (Taka's daughters are my God daughters).

As for the steering wheel, why don't you buy it, I will install it and you can have it next time. :biggrin:

[WAY]

Originally Posted by takahashi

Last night road is bumpy enough. Yes the bumpy road will kill some contact patch in the outside tyres because you reduced the load. But remember you may make some significant gain on the inner tyres but is all but lost in a poor sway bar system.

The solution is to have a good sway, and you have hopping issue on the bumpy road and soften the suspension by a few clicks.

BTW, I was asked yesterday by my passenger that "are we going to crash tonight?" So I back off my 6/10th. Although I have not done spirited driving for a little while now WAY, but I still made a grown man scared.

Likewise, been awhile since I have been out at 2am let alone going out for a drive! I have not done spirited road driving for a long time, other than Mountain Hwy up to Mt Dandenong which doesn't have the blind corners and crests like the route we took.

It didn't feel that bumpy in my car as my suspension is soft. But I can imagine that if I took the same route with a KW Clubsport, the car will skip everywhere, especially if I then put on a stiff set of sway. And this is what I am trying to convey to the prof. Stiff sussy and sway is a good solution on smooth race track, but not always on bumpy b-roads.

Btw, my active xenon worked brilliantly! My M3 CS owning passenger could not believe how well we could see going around the corners. Finally I could justify my purchase! We really didn't want to push last night other than on the straights, but I can see how your army GP passenger was scared shitless. It wasn't exactly slow haha. The thing is because we track regularly, we know the limits which is far beyond what is achievable on the road. But as a passenger it is a completely different story!

[professor]

i agree with your comment, taka. and v3 has speed-dependent compression damping in addition to rebound damping so rebound can be kept loose and compression tightened up on changing surfaces. that should theoretically reduce the skipping issue with sways.

no camber adjustment though with v3s though is there?! and kw's website says you may need spacers with the 1er!

[WAY]

Prof, you will need to buy camber plate separately. There is someone here who has raced in a V3 with camber plate, so there is some experience here. Likewise someone has raced in the KW Clubsport so we can learn from their experience. Oh and someone here from Sydney has put on a set of Clubsport too. He says it rubs the rear (he has increased the negative camber on the rear too).

[professor]

thanks for that wayne. so you think that kw is right is suggesting that spacers are needed with their coilovers used with stock wheels/tyres?! by the way, i read somewhere in a review that the camber on your AMG is pretty aggressive. is it visibly more than the 1er?

[WAY]

Never noticed that the AMG has aggresive camber. I will go look at it later.

As for spacers, I don't believe that is the case.

[professor]

good show if no spacers are required. i wonder why kw say they might be though. :iono:

regarding camber on the c63 see below, i.e. if you do not feel like crawling around your own car :smile::

from car&driver "with much of the regular C-class front-end structure needing to be tweaked to accommodate the big V-8's size and heft, the C63 engineers were able to execute slightly more radical changes than they might have otherwise. This includes spreading the front wheels an additional 1.4 inches apart for better cornering stability and better steering response, recalibrating the basic suspension geometry, increasing the front camber, and beefing up the anti-roll bar."

from automobile "As part of the AMG sports suspension calibration, the C63 also gets a larger anti-roll bar, new suspension bearings, and stiffer dampers. In the rear, AMG increased the track by 12 mm, added more negative camber, and substituted more robust drive shafts. The AMG sports steering has a quick 13.5:1 ratio, which, combined with the suspension changes, should result in improved steering feedback."

visual proof from top gear watch from about 7.44

[WAY]

Someone is spending a lot of time doing research on the C63. I wonder what that means? :wink: Just make sure you get the LSD. I wished I could have (not available until post Sept build). And now that I have had some time with the car, I can tell you that it can really do with it!

[professor]

no doubt it truly is an incredible machine and even more of a bargain than the 1er! but the m3 feels nicer inside especially with that lovely carbon-leather treatment. i think the c63 just begs for a designo treatment, but sadly its not available.

[taiheung]

BMW had told me that these parts had not yet received ADR aproval. Has this since changed? Or did you have to provide an engineering certificate or something with installation?

[takahashi]

Originally Posted by taiheung

BMW had told me that these parts had not yet received ADR aproval. Has this since changed? Or did you have to provide an engineering certificate or something with installation?

If you get any ADR approval for this parts, you will have it installed in 2010. Such a small number of product sold, it is a waste of money to get ADR. In fact, modification will not require ADR, as long as it is within the VicRoads (or equv) modification guideline then it is ok (ie legal).

[andrew@southernBM]

The Steering wheel has gone up again and i have some pricing from Dan, his have gone up as well as per his thread in the commercial section which doesn't help keeping costs low for us all.

Is there any interest in a Steering wheel from the Aussies? It may help me negotiate a better deal.

[Swift135]

I got mine for US$810 and $91 shipping, I ordered it a month ago and it has just arrived at United BMW from backorder and I should see it within a couple of weeks.