1M versus M2: the benefits of the impromptu factor

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by Mahlzeit

Do first? Shower.

So right!

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Artemis

The 1M can be considered as one the kinkiest girls of the BMW family lushly whispering in your ear: "Wanna dance ?"

You don't have to be so nice....the 1M is a nasty ho that will destroy you if you don't hit it just right.

[OrangeCrush]

I bet they tune out the drone in the M2....and that makes me sad...

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Goombeh

I think Mr OP is right, the lack of pure consideration time that the 1M had through from conception to establishment I think has created a car which in hindsight, may not have been one which, given due consideration (cost, wide audience appeal, political correctness, etc) would have been produced.

Manual only limits it severely to a certain customer, the size also as does the cost. When I took one for a drive, which I didn't really intend to do after visiting BMW ready to put a deposit down on an M3, the first thing I thought........ well the second thing after ... Fwooar.......... that was actually the first, was good on BMW, or any other manufacturer with that thought, for making a car like this. I thought those days were gone.

Let's not get into an M3 vs 1M war as seems typical, they are (in my opinion and experience) rather different cars. This will of course result in them appealing to rather different customers (even though I was going to buy an M3), but my point here is that there is no need arguing over m3, 1M as I see it like arguing over 911 Turbo vs GT3 RS. Different focus, different appeal.

It's of no surprise to see the 1M compared to the stripper Cayman regularly as it offers this similar style of experience, raw, hard edged, pure, focussed.

The M3 is often compared to the RS4, C63 etc, as it fits into that market better, super fast, comfortable touring coupe/sedan.

And that's exactly how I experienced the two cars. So there should be no argument between the two cars, different horses.

Back to the point, I think the 1M is brilliant for it's imposed time constraints which I think allowed it to get through without being sensiblised... yeah I made up a word so.? ..

nice comments indeeed... and made me realize why longwong left his in the driveway... he always took the Cushy automatic M3....

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you

1. The M2 will be a I4 twin-scroll motor that will never be as powerful as the tweaked N54tu in the 1M.

2. The 1M weighs ~3300lbs, there is no way the M2 will weigh less.

3. The steering in the 1M is straight from the M3, will BMW improve on this with the M2? Doubtful.

4. Handling. The complete M3 underpinnings put the 1M on par with the M3 even though it was a little more "exciting" due to the shorter wheelbase, but that is part of the appeal with the 1M.

So the way I see it, BMW would have to make the M2 a lot lighter, I'm talking 3200lbs at least and they would have to put in an I6 TT. That would just entirely cannibalize the M3/4 and BMW will never do that. So at best, they might get the weight to the 1M's but whatever engine they put in will still fall short of the ridiculously underrated 1M's powerplant.

The parts used to enhance the 135 into a 1M were not leftover pieces of scrap metal, it was the best bits M division had in it's arsenal at the time.

1 - I agree 100% twin turbo I-4 ... this is really what is needed to differentiate the 1M from the M3 further, which will be needed over a longer model run when both are on sale at the same time. With triturbos and 450 hp for the M3, the I4 with Secret M sauce can come in at 320-340 hp (similar to the 1M) and be just fine.

2- an M2 might possibly weigh a little less.. An actual CF roof is possible.... as well as other " efficient dynamics" .... in any event keeping it within 50 lbs will be just fine either way for the M2

3- gonna agree with you here...

I agree steering feel likely will be worse.

4 - Handlng will be better in the M2 ... they may be able to tame the chassis and not make it as lively at the rear. This will take away some of the fun factor for ADVANCED drivers. , but will make it safer and faster in the hands of lesser drivers. Even if this is NOT true.. the simple fact is that the chassis CAPABILITY is nearly always improved with a new BMW generation over the previous one.

E90 > E46 > E36 > E30 in terms of mechanical grip...things like lane change speed... cornering grip etc.. BMW doesnt often make a step BACKWARDS when it comes to suspension redesigns.


overall package? Remains to be seen...

[Redadair]

^ I agree, add one more thing the overall dimensions of the car will be larger, wheelbase wight etc.

[M3 Adjuster]

didnt take long to find an answer out...

" BMW M235i Will Beat 1M Coupe Around Nurburgring and Have Limited Slip Differential"

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=867904

[MrRoboto]

I doubt a non-M car will have a mechanical LSD...likely an ELSD.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

I doubt a non-M car will have a mechanical LSD...likely an ELSD.

turn off the doubt train.... and click on the link maybe?


Also note that the 4 series will also have a true limited slip diff as an OPTION.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=866546

[Aussie_in_London]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

didnt take long to find an answer out...

" BMW M235i Will Beat 1M Coupe Around Nurburgring and Have Limited Slip Differential"

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=867904

This is an exclusive from Autoexpress, just go back and find some, well all of their 'exclusive' pictures......That says it all about autoexpress and photoshop!

I know a few people from other manufacturers who autoexpress have miss quoted a number of times, or add to the limited facts they have been given.

Wait until a mag like Evo has anything to add about the M235i, Autoexpress is the 'News of the World' for auto mags, somewhat surprised they don't do a page 3 topless model spread

"However, we did take the 18-inch wheels and special Michelin tyres from the 1M for the M235i, as they offer better performance than the 19-inch versions."

[ozinaldo]

Oh my God! I have to sell my 1M right now and put a deposit for the new M235i already, because it will have "proper lsd" and beat the 1M around N-ring

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

Oh my God! I have to sell my 1M right now and put a deposit for the new M235i already, because it will have "proper lsd" and beat the 1M around N-ring

Regardless of ring times and regardless of the LSD, the 1M is special and the m235i or the M2, for that matter, will not change that.

But 'Stock' performance numbers wise, I am expecting them to be close.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Aussie_in_London

This is an exclusive from Autoexpress, just go back and find some, well all of their 'exclusive' pictures......That says it all about autoexpress and photoshop!

I know a few people from other manufacturers who autoexpress have miss quoted a number of times, or add to the limited facts they have been given.

Wait until a mag like Evo has anything to add about the M235i, Autoexpress is the 'News of the World' for auto mags, somewhat surprised they don't do a page 3 topless model spread

"However, we did take the 18-inch wheels and special Michelin tyres from the 1M for the M235i, as they offer better performance than the 19-inch versions."

Well this is now a Bimmerpost article as well. So perhaps now it's credible?

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=867904

Personally.. I don't really care where it was posted/printed.... What I do care about is who is doing the talking..


The upcoming M235i Coupe will beat the 1M Coupe around the Nurburgring, so says Klaus Froehlich, Senior Vice President Brand and Product Strategies at BMW. In speaking to Autoexpress, he states that:
“I have just signed off the M235i’s M Sport performance kit, which will include a proper limited slip differential - LSD. I’m just working out whether to make this an option on all models.
The M235i is as close a spiritual successor to the 2002ti that we’ve had. My initial benchmark was that it will be faster than the BMW 1M Coupe around the Nurburgring, which it is.


Clearly this is a DECLARATIVE statement. could it be false? we shall see.. but i rather doubt it for the reasons I listed previously. Time marches on.. performance improves...

[Aussie_in_London]

To be honest I am one for ZERO care factor when it comes to rings times and so on..... Also it is not down to the faster lap time or traffic light GP winners that win car comparison tests, the lastest Evo A45 AMG v M135i test just proved that....... Still, for old school tech, the 1M is not half bad if competing against the new techies on the block and still can punch above it's weight.

As for the M235i ring time, we know BMW have done an approx 8:12 during testing, but for a more comparable as you can get given the circumstances, await SportAuto's one warm up lap and go for it time.

[mlhj83]

Don't forget that the LSD offerings by BMW for the non-M cars are not fully variable ie can't apportion up to 100% to one rear wheel - effectively torque vectoring.

The M235i nor the 435i LSD have a variable M differential, just a regular clutch-based differential that has up to a fixed percentage of lockup e.g. 30%.

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by mlhj83

Don't forget that the LSD offerings by BMW for the non-M cars are not fully variable ie can't apportion up to 100% to one rear wheel - effectively torque vectoring.

The M235i nor the 435i LSD have a variable M differential, just a regular clutch-based differential that has up to a fixed percentage of lockup e.g. 30%.

Bingo!

[Artemis]

Posting this spot-on comment of forum fellow Dee Pee also over here.

Originally Posted by Dee Pee

My thoughts harken to the brilliant 1M vs M2 comparison thread.
For me, it's all about emotional connection to the car and the road. The 1M captures this in a magical and unique way that I haven't felt since my beloved GTV6.
The development of the 1M was something I compare to political revolutions--all of which, through human history, have been instigated by a desperate, passionate, poorly funded minority fighting against the status quo. For better or worse THAT'S where history is made.
Qui audet adipiscitur [Who dares wins].
We live in a watered-down, cowardly, committee-driven world that mitigates risk for a few dullards, by keeping the majority in an AWD, paddle-shifting, diaper-wearing bubble where oversteer and drifts are frowned upon by electronic nannies. A45? RS3? TTRS? STi? GTR? *eyeroll*
Thank you no. Give me a tall ship and a star to steer her by--or a manual tranny and a buttload of torque.
While I'm sure that there will be cars like the A45, built by the performance divisions of most marques that will outdo the 1M on paper, the simple fact remains that they will never outdo it in the one area where it truly counts: the happiness that it brings to the driver. God gave me a left leg and a right arm for a reason. If I ain't mashing down on a clutch and moving a shifter I ain't a happy person. And I ain't drinking no Kool-Aid to convince me otherwise.
While I admire the intellectual curiosity of my fellow petrol-heads when it comes to comparos, my own humble observation is that after I've read any comparison to the 1M by anyone, I honestly shrug my shoulders and smile.
I know what I got and I'm happy. And you know what? Sometimes the lil bulldog surprises you when it meets up with one of these soulless AWD abominations, as this repost shows. Just scroll to 1:37 [02:37] and look at his smile.
Just my 2cents. It could be the Vicodin and prednisone talking. Gotta love a back injury.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...49641647,d.cGE

[Dee Pee]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/03/auto....html?iid=Lead

Looks like Chevy learned something from the 1M.

Oh and not to beat a dead horse but for all you guys in the M2 I6 vs I4 thread take a look at post #46 from Metak.

[Artemis]

Some M2 renders: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=907562