[Milehigh E90]

What follows is part of the email that I sent to Gebhardt BMW last night after picking up my NEW 330xi:

Guy’s WOW what a ride. I drove home with the biggest grin on a guys face, I called everyone I knew and said just how awesome this car is! However, I had forgotten my house keys in the old car, so I got the pleasure of driving back up to Boulder. The whole time minding my manners and keeping it at under 4,000 RPM. After picking up my house keys I was driving down 36 and a small triangle and an exclamation mark came on in the display. Obviously my heart raced for a minute and I thought “Perfect chance to see how BMW SOS does...” I pressed the button and the lady was pleasant but not real helpful. It was the same young lady that had done the first time setup for me just an hour previous. A tech that could help was NOT on duty, so I ended the call and pulled over in the parking lot at the COSTCO store just off of 36 to look at the owners manual.

After a few minutes of research I found that the indicator was telling me that the engine was “LOW on oil” HOW COULD THIS BE? So I thought about my options for a minute, drive it home to Thornton, where it would have to towed back to you or back up to Boulder, and thought that at Boulder it would be at your shop so that someone could look at it first thing in the morning.

After arriving at your shop I pulled around to the back and parked near the main service door. I turned the car off and opened the hood and the horror will give me night mares! There under the hood was a shop rag and the engine compartment sprayed with oil!!!! I drop the keys in your overnight drop box, took pictures of the external damage (who knows how much internal damage has been done, no oil for ~45 mile? I know I’m NOT going to stick around to find out) and drove off in my OLD car. I’m sick to my stomach here! I literally cried on the way home!

On my way home I contacted my finance company and put a STOP on the financing! Obviously after spending ~$50,000 on a car and it only having ~45 miles on it and NO OIL I do NOT want anything to do with that car. Once I arrived back at my place I contacted my bank and also put a stop payment on my check!

Now comes the hard part guys, what is Gebhardt going to do about all of this? I have lots of ideas but really need to hear from you what your going to do before I say or do something that I will later regret. I will tell you that per my agreement with my Mom, I do need to get her car back to her real soon.

This was an easy, rookie mistake, none the less a very regrettable one! This whole deal has been rush and in the rush your techs missed something! Now we need to put the pieces of the puzzle back together. As I stated above I drove like a little old lady, keeping it at all times under 4,000 RPM. I wanted this car broken in right for 1500 miles BEFORE I took it above that magical 4000 RPM mark! I’ve read that you need to take it east on the brakes, tires and clutch for 250 miles and the engine for 1250 miles, I had planned on extending that to 500 and 1500 miles respectively.

AGAIN I don’t want to leave any false hope here for you on that car, I will have NOTHING to do with it!!!! My financing has been canceled!

I’ll be up there first thing in the morning so we can discuss this.


I do have pictures and as soon as I can take it to look at them and after I find out what the dealer is going to do about all of this I'll post them up here. It looks like it's going to be another 2 and half months of waitting for me!

[shark330i]

That totally sucks. Keep us posted on what's happened.

[LEDZEP]

Milehigh E90 - Oh my God! That is truly a horror story. After all the anticipation and the childish glee that one experiences when taking delivery of a new car - that is awful. I think you did exactly the right thing. You might also consider contacting a lawyer just in case they decide to be asses about the whole thing. Find out exactly what your legal rights are, and what theirs are. I can easily imagine them trying to hold you to the purchase and "fixing it under warranty". And I agree with you that would be unacceptable. I too would have nothing to do with that car after running without oil on its maiden drive.

I think the dealership in this case needs to treat you like you own the place. They should be bending over backwards to do anything they can for you and also offering you a brand new car at a significant discount. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt that will be their approach.

Please keep us posted on the results and progress. Again, I feel terrible for your experience! Keep the faith.

[Hawkeye3]

I hope the dealership does the right thing and replaces the car. Talk about having the rug pulled out from you!

[ZenDriver]

I might give them a score of 4 instead of 5...

There are two important questions that need to be asked

1: How much oil remains in the oil pan?

2: If the answer to #1 is < around 4 quarts, then how long did you drive the vehicle after the warning light came on?

While this was very much a rookie mistake on the part of the dealer prep team, there is NO reason to think that this situation has caused significant damage to the motor. As long as the oil sump never sucked air, your engine remained fully lubricated at all times. Of course, the quantity of overall oil was low, but for a very short amount of time, this would not have been a problem.

Canceling your financing was probably a bit dramatic, but understandable. Most likely however, there is nothing wrong with the vehicle and absolutely no damage was done. I do not think that the dealer has some responsibility to hand you the keys to a new 7 series or anything, but they should make the situation right in the following ways:

1- They should perform a complete vehicle detail including of the engine compartment and underbody. They should probably give you a cupon for a second complete detailing (just to sweeten the deal).

2- They should note the incident with BMW's computer system including all applicable information of what happened.

3- They should extend the vehicle warranty to 100,000.

This was a rookie mistake and, in total, this will cost the dealership about $1000 to cover which strikes me as pretty fair for all parties involved.

[govtec]

y didn't u open the hood when u stop to check the manual? at that point the light was just signaling low oil and damage could have been mitigated. from what i remember in blaw, this could be used against u but then again i am no lawyer. now that u've driven it over 40miles with oil slushing out i wouldn't want to take that back and make sure they fire the technician who worked on ur car.

[ZenDriver]

make sure they fire the technician who worked on ur car.

Replace the car!
Fire the tech!

It is like the moment you guys got handed the keys to your cars, you somehow were provided absolution for every mistake you ever made in your life.

From a tech standpoint, this was a minor problem with a very dramatic set of visuals (warning lights and engine oil in the engine compartment). It can be easily, totally and equitablly rectified. Why cross the line into unforgivable asshole by demanding some overworked tech be fired over this?

Then agian, I am debating the kind of person who can't be bothered to spell out full words which explains the fire and brimstone attitude- people without a lot of self assurance tend to be the first to throw stones...

[LEDZEP]

I disagree with ZenDriver on this one. This is a big time mistake and it should cost the dealer dearly. I don't think that Milehigh E90 shares in the responsibilty at all here. He used BMW Assist to try and get help and they were unable to assist him. That call will be logged and will be to his credit. They should have told him to shut off the car and they would have someone there immediately with a loaner for him - or to take him to a rental shop and put him in a car.

He needs to talk to a lawyer and find out what his rights are before continuing, but I would also walk away from that car. If you caught a glimpse of your bride being gang banged moments before the wedding began would you still meet her at the altar?

[LEDZEP]

Originally Posted by ZenDriver

You guys are a bunch of assholes...

Replace the car!
Fire the tech!

It is like the moment you guys got handed the keys to your cars, you somehow were provided absolution for every mistake you ever made in your life.

From a tech standpoint, this was a minor problem with a very dramatic set of visuals (warning lights and engine oil in the engine compartment). It can be easily, totally and equitablly rectified. Why cross the line into unforgivable asshole by demanding some overworked tech be fired over this?

Then agian, I am debating the kind of person who can't be bothered to spell out full words which explains the fire and brimstone attitude- people without a lot of self assurance tend to be the first to throw stones...

That was a bit extreme, don't you think? I know you enjoy your tantrums, as do I on occasion - but calling those of us who disagree with you a bunch of assholes is uncalled for.

The problem here is that you want this guy to sympathize with the dealership and the moron who left the oil cap off. Whether or not he is fired would not be my concern, but just saying "oh well, it was a rookie mistake" doesn't make it any better. It would be a rookie mistake to forget to unload my gun before cleaning it too, does that make whatever accident might occur as a result OK?

[ZenDriver]

I agree with you, ZEP, that Milehigh E90 has NO responsibility in this incident.

Having said that, aside from what is admittedly a horrible delivery experience and inconvenience, what damage has been done? Well, we really don't know what damage has been done, but there is a good chance (I would say significantly over 50%) that there is nothing technically wrong with MileHigh's motor.

A new vehicle is absolutely not in order as reperations here.

Data point: I had a 2005 Volvo S40 (I was trying to be more 'responsible' with my vehicle purchase decisions). The motor threw a bearing at 4100 miles and needed replacement. The CD player broke at 4500 miles. Check engine lights were a regular occurrence. Oil pressure pushed the dipstick out of it's tube and sprayed oil over the motor (causing lots of smoke). The list went on and on and on.

In the end, I couldn't find a single lawyer who was willing to take up a lemon law case on my behalf against Volvo. While terribly inconvenient and leaving very little room to doubt how crappy Volvo/Ford is, the sort of level of 'injury' required to get the attention of an automotive warranty lawyer is extremely high.

[MB330]

Sorry, man.
Please let as know how this story end and

[Scott Carpenter]

not good

[england1987]

Wow, that really sucks. I can't see how you can be held responcible in anyway (financially). I hope that it all works out for you in the end. Keep us posted.

[ZenDriver]

That was a bit extreme, don't you think? I know you enjoy your tantrums, as do I on occasion - but calling those of us who disagree with you a bunch of assholes is uncalled for.

The problem here is that you want this guy to sympathize with the dealership and the moron who left the oil cap off. Whether or not he is fired would not be my concern, but just saying "oh well, it was a rookie mistake" doesn't make it any better. It would be a rookie mistake to forget to unload my gun before cleaning it too, does that make whatever accident might occur as a result OK?

I am not arguing that this incident be written off. I presented a solution that would both make the situation right (with a full detailed cleaning) and reasonably restore MileHigh's confidence in his vehicle (with the greatly extended warranty). Beyond that, these reparations come directly out of the dealer's pocketbook, erasing the razor thin profit margin on one of these vehicles to say nothing of the CS score hit that this dealership is going to take. On top of all that, I am sure the dealer can come up with some nice sweeteners (guaranteed loaners for service, significant discount on accessories, free alarm kit, etc.) I firmly believe that MileHigh has a right to come out ahead on this deal- nothing sucks harder in the automotive world then having the new car experience bubble burst as harshly as lifting up your hood and seeing the scene he described.

Again, my position is born out of my opinion that very little actual damage (if any) has actually happened to MileHigh's vehicle. With oil changes at 15,000 miles, BMW oil pans are designed to hold a larger volume of oil for reasons well beyond simply keeping the sump wet. Even so, his vehicle is under full warranty, the situation will have been well noted and I cannot imagine how doubling the original warranty would not constitute adequate technical compensation. Furthermore, if MileHigh has any motor related problems in the short term, they need to be viewed within the context of this incident having happened and the vehicle's status should be re-evaluated accordingly.

As for my calling everyone assholes, I think that demanding that a technician be fired is the epitome of a stereotypically snooty BMW owner. Lapses such as the one MileHigh experienced are typically the result of poor leadership and management techniques. The shop floor at a BMW center is in a constant time crunch and getting cars out the door as fast as possible is often the most important thing for the guys in the garage. Piss poor management puts the volume pressure on the guys in the overalls and shitty situations like the one MileHigh had are the result. That is not to say that the tech is blameless, but I promise everyone that his coworkers will extract a pound of flesh in endless ribbings about his BMW Certified Technician ability to screw the pooch on an oil change.

[siriusinvestor]

If you stopped payment to the check you better be ready for the dealership lawyers to swarm your ass big time. Get a lawyer immediately! Trust me they aren't gonna be to happy about getting screwed out of $50K.

PS - As Russell Peters would say " Somebody gonna get a hurt, reaaaal bad. "

[wantmye90]

Call your attorney and also the Better Business B. Give the dealer the keys back and walk away, even if they protest. Do not accept that car. If there's nothing wrong with the car, then they'll have no problem reselling it. If there is something wrong, then they shouldn't make you keep it. Also, sit down and type up notes on exactly what happened, detail by detail, before you forget. Keep these notes updated as this unfolds. You did the right thing here IMO. Sorry, and good luck.

[LEDZEP]

The dealership is guilty of negligence. In addition to possible engine damage and a mess that will never be completely cleaned (and steam cleaning does as much damage as it does good), I actually think this gentleman is entitled punative damages. The only thing that would have been better for him, would be opening the hood while the engine was running and having hot oil sprayed on him. By this time next year he would be a millionaire.

Just as buying a new car is no guarantee that it will not have problems, propping up a BMW sign and hiring a couple of guys named Frank is no guarantee that you will be successful and profitable. The dealer fucked up here, plain and simple. It should cost them. Overworked? Razor thin profit margin? Boo-fucking-hoo. Trust me, they're doing okay.

None of us know jack shit, and we're just stating our opinions and venting our repective emotional responses and sympathies. He really really needs to get a lawyer ASAP.

A car wash and extended warranty? Not a chance.

[Schweitzer]

Sorry to hear of your troubles, Milehigh. Before contacting an attorney, my advice is to get reaction from the dealer first. They might make it right for you. If I were you, I'd want a new and different car. You put less than a hundred miles on it, took it back immediately, and it's obvious that there was some major negligence at their end. (Let them worry about how to handle the discipline of the tech.) Is there a way to ressurect your financing if they swap out the car, or will you have to start anew? I think stopping payment and cancelling financing was a bit extreme, but maybe I'd have done the same under the circumstances. I wouldn't want that car back either. You bought a brand new car with a factory clean engine, not one that has been doused with oil and hosed off. But ultimately, asking for a new car is not an unreasonable request here. Do you know what Colorado law says with with respect to your contractual rights?
Regardless, the dealer should acknowledge their error and make it right.

[needashower]

This sounds like an honest mistake. Chance are no damage was done to the car as most of the oil sits low in the oil pan, but I could be wrong. That being said, I don't see how firing the tech makes any of this better. The dealer should provide some diagnostics of the problem, some guarantees, a good detail plus some other free services. Give the dealer a chance to make this right. I understand you are furious, I would be too, you have every right. Legal solutions should be your last resort.

[stressdoc]

I think it is in your best interests to talk carefully and calmly with the dealership. You both could piss away the cost of an E90 in litigation. I agree with ZenDriver that your car is probably just fine, but you do not know that with 100% certainty, and it is very difficult to return the looks of the engine compartment to 'new' status. Given your concerns, the best solution is to work with the dealer to get a new car if that is what you want. Someone made a mistake, they were in a hurry. I am surprised that your rep let you out of the dealership without going over the car with you. That hood should have been popped and all the stuff you need to know explained to you. That was sloppy mistake #2 on the dealer's part.

But the only way you are going to get what I think you want is for you and the dealer to work together. Hard to do that if you are riled up and vindictive. Forget the spilled oil, and get on with the future. The dealer is likely to treat you better if you are a friend than as an enemy.

[canucklion]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

I think it is in your best interests to talk carefully and calmly with the dealership. You both could piss away the cost of an E90 in litigation. I agree with ZenDriver that your car is probably just fine, but you do not know that with 100% certainty, and it is very difficult to return the looks of the engine compartment to 'new' status. Given your concerns, the best solution is to work with the dealer to get a new car if that is what you want. Someone made a mistake, they were in a hurry. I am surprised that your rep let you out of the dealership without going over the car with you. That hood should have been popped and all the stuff you need to know explained to you. That was sloppy mistake #2 on the dealer's part.

But the only way you are going to get what I think you want is for you and the dealer to work together. Hard to do that if you are riled up and vindictive. Forget the spilled oil, and get on with the future. The dealer is likely to treat you better if you are a friend than as an enemy.

I agree with both Zendriver and stressdoc on this one. You can get a trusted independet mechanic to go over to your dealership shop to examine the amount of damage caused. And if the damages are minimal, then Zen's suggestions seem reasonable for both parties involved. I really disagree with "fire the tech" comment made, who made you the king of the world? you've never made any mistakes in your life?

[Intuition]

Have them replace the car if they want to have the deal continue.

No ifs, ands, or buts.

You don't demand that they fire a tech (or anyone else involved). They will do that themselves and no matter what you say it is not your place to have people fired in a business that is not yours. That being said I can tell you right now that they will do what they want to with the responsible parties wether you like it or not.

That is not your concern.

Your concern is that you are/were about to commit alot of money for a car.

This car, beyond being a nice and fun car, is being bought to perform a service, getting between point a and b for fun or practicality, and if the car is damaged then it is not fun or practical and in that context why even spend even a penny on it?

My opinion....have them replace the car (I know its a sucky wait) or spend the next few years possibly regretting it every time you get in the damaged one. Its like a ticket to a multi year stomache ache.

What sounds better? Starting your stomache ache now or getting real fun and piece of mind in a few months?

What is good advice here is that even in the possibility that they may replace your car it will be alot easier for it to happen if you are as friendly as possible. No one intended this situation.

If you are nice to them and they refuse to replace your car then you are going to have to go the legal route, in case cancelling the finance wasn't enough. Let them know its nothing personal and you don't want to do that but you can't invest money in a potential disaster that will cost you many times more money if there is serious damage.

If the shoe was on the other foot none of those salesmen would allow themselves to "settle" for a possibly damaged car either.

But, in the end since you have cancelled the financing then they are gong to be in the position of pleasing you and not the other way around. And if not, well there are always other dealers you can take your story to that would gladly clean up the mess with a car that has no problems.