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      03-31-2012, 12:11 AM   #1
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new intake piping

What do you guys think of this?

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...t=15409&page=5

Seems pretty good since our stock piping is a crappy flat pancake style?
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      03-31-2012, 01:29 AM   #2
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Looks good and sure it does a better job that the plastic oval shaped OEM intake tubes but still sucks in hot air.

The key is volume + cold air. His review regarding how the car drives is I'm sure like what most of our cars feel/drive like.

Still feel that the Mr 5 is best and im sure it played some part in my recent dyno run.
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      03-31-2012, 01:57 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB4135 View Post
Looks good and sure it does a better job that the plastic oval shaped OEM intake tubes but still sucks in hot air.

The key is volume + cold air. His review regarding how the car drives is I'm sure like what most of our cars feel/drive like.

Still feel that the Mr 5 is best and im sure it played some part in my recent dyno run.
Yeah if both of them can somehow suck in cold air - it would the best scenario!
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      03-31-2012, 02:05 AM   #4
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True. My guess is this custom intake will not only be a pain in the %#* to fit but can't image it being too cheap either.
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      03-31-2012, 02:16 AM   #5
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that's a whole lot of piping :/
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      03-31-2012, 02:20 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmroxm5 View Post
that's a whole lot of piping :/
Mate...your not wrong..takes over the whole engine bay..
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      03-31-2012, 03:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuzu View Post
Mate...your not wrong..takes over the whole engine bay..
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmroxm5 View Post
that's a whole lot of piping :/
The length of an intake pipe directly correlates to how big your manhood is

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB4135 View Post
True. My guess is this custom intake will not only be a pain in the %#* to fit but can't image it being too cheap either.
Yeah it would be but would be curious on some dyno and see what kind of gain you will get!
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      03-31-2012, 08:19 AM   #8
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That's very nice work. I have had custom pipework done for intakes before and it isn't cheap. The price of $650 exc. filters is reasonable given the mandrel bends used (about a dozen if I am correct), silicone couplers, lipwork and chroming/polishing. I am sure it would give a better throttle response at the very least.
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      03-31-2012, 05:09 PM   #9
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Hi Gents,

here is a post from N54Tech and my take on this kit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ******
Like I said im not the one making this so I cant set his price. Its a lot of work and has to be all hand done. If it was my choice I would just make you one for tests but its not. 650 is a decent price for all the work it takes to make.


Hey mate,

I can certainly see why the $650 asking price is justified, nice work indeed.

We know too well that custom fabrication takes time and time is money.

My 135i would be a perfect test vehicle for this kit.

Not only because I am FBO with Meth' + Rob's turbos, but our DynoDynamics dyno is very accurate and I know what my car makes, after some 200+ pulls.

I will speak to Peter the workshop owner and Chief Mechanic and see if he would like to fit this intake kit up, as an exercise if nothing else.

To be honest my main interest in this kit, is whether or not the removal of the potential restriction on the inducer air inlet path, would increase maximum horsepower substantially.

Our testing suggests that beyond 19 psi up top, the RB turbos are moving out of their efficiency range, as increasing boost by 0.5 psi increments above 19 psi, nets very small horsepower gains.

The dyno graph illustrates the current state of tune of our 135i shop-car, the 190 rwkW figure was done when the vehicle was totally stock (save a Dinan CAI).

Cheers,

Justin.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Justin@ADVAN Performance; 03-31-2012 at 07:27 PM.. Reason: Typo
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      03-31-2012, 08:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance View Post
Hi Gents,

here is a post from N54Tech and my take on this kit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ******
Like I said im not the one making this so I cant set his price. Its a lot of work and has to be all hand done. If it was my choice I would just make you one for tests but its not. 650 is a decent price for all the work it takes to make.


Hey mate,

I can certainly see why the $650 asking price is justified, nice work indeed.

We know too well that custom fabrication takes time and time is money.

My 135i would be a perfect test vehicle for this kit.

Not only because I am FBO with Meth' + Rob's turbos, but our DynoDynamics dyno is very accurate and I know what my car makes, after some 200+ pulls.

I will speak to Peter the workshop owner and Chief Mechanic and see if he would like to fit this intake kit up, as an exercise if nothing else.

To be honest my main interest in this kit, is whether or not the removal of the potential restriction on the inducer air inlet path, would increase maximum horsepower substantially.

Our testing suggests that beyond 19 psi up top, the RB turbos are moving out of their efficiency range, as increasing boost by 0.5 psi increments above 19 psi, nets very small horsepower gains.

The dyno graph illustrates the current state of tune of our 135i shop-car, the 190 rwkW figure was done when the vehicle was totally stock (save a Dinan CAI).

Cheers,

Justin.
200 + dyno pulls.

That's some bad ass boost your running Justin. Keep up the great works guys.
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      03-31-2012, 09:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB4135 View Post
200 + dyno pulls.

That's some bad ass boost your running Justin. Keep up the great works guys.
Haha,

thanks Edwin.

Yep, that is a lot of dyno pulls, I think it's around the 210-215 number now.

I believe the RB's could comfortably support 22-23 psi through the midrange, this would increase peak torque substantially, but the car already lights up the tyres at 2,500 rpm in second gear from a roll.

This is without Meth' on the low boost Map of the Procede, so whilst massive engine torque is great for bragging rights and a lot of fun with super sticky tyres, it is of no real use on the street.

FYI,

the RB turbo's on my car utilise a complete TD04 CHRA or cartridge.

As such they can support higher sustained boost pressures than their BMW OE TD03L counterparts, as the centre section bearings are more robust as is the shaft.

Peter is currently in the process of developing what would be considered a Stage 1 turbo upgrade with GCG, that will see the Mitsubishi TD03 compressor wheel swapped out for a new generation billet comp' wheel.

The inducer ID will also be increased in a similiar manner to the RB turbos, however I am told the turbine wheel and exhaust housing will no be altered.

We are also exploring the possibillity of removing my RB turbos, to make way for a Garrett turbo upgrade.

Unfortunately following a closer examination of the space we have to work with, my dreams of twin Garret GT2860-5's or "dash 5's" as they are more commonly known, have been dashed quite literally.

However "young" Chris has some rather interesting thoughts on what could be done with a larger single frame turbo, notably a Garrett GTX3582R.

Anyway whilst I am not a fan of open air cone intakes for a number of reasons, I would love to see if the OE air inlet path to the turbocharger inducer, is in fact a bottle neck...

Last edited by Justin@ADVAN Performance; 03-31-2012 at 09:42 PM.. Reason: Typo
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      03-31-2012, 10:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance View Post
Haha,

thanks Edwin.

Yep, that is a lot of dyno pulls, I think it's around the 210-215 number now.

I believe the RB's could comfortably support 22-23 psi through the midrange, this would increase peak torque substantially, but the car already lights up the tyres at 2,500 rpm in second gear from a roll.

This is without Meth' on the low boost Map of the Procede, so whilst massive engine torque is great for bragging rights and a lot of fun with super sticky tyres, it is of no real use on the street.

FYI,

the RB turbo's on my car utilise a complete TD04 CHRA or cartridge.

As such they can support higher sustained boost pressures than their BMW OE TD03L counterparts, as the centre section bearings are more robust as is the shaft.

Peter is currently in the process of developing what would be considered a Stage 1 turbo upgrade with GCG, that will see the Mitsubishi TD03 compressor wheel swapped out for a new generation billet comp' wheel.

The inducer ID will also be increased in a similiar manner to the RB turbos, however I am told the turbine wheel and exhaust housing will no be altered.

We are also exploring the possibillity of removing my RB turbos, to make way for a Garrett turbo upgrade.

Unfortunately following a closer examination of the space we have to work with, my dreams of twin Garret GT2860-5's or "dash 5's" as they are more commonly known, have been dashed quite literally.

However "young" Chris has some rather interesting thoughts on what could be done with a larger single frame turbo, notably a Garrett GTX3582R.

Anyway whilst I am not a fan of open air cone intakes for a number of reasons, I would love to see if the OE air inlet path to the turbocharger inducer, is in fact a bottle neck...
Would definitely love to see you guys get it and do some testing!

I am looking forward to what you guys come up for a turbo upgrade, my wallet is not though

What intake are you using? Dinan's?
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      04-01-2012, 01:25 PM   #13
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      04-01-2012, 08:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance View Post
Unfortunately following a closer examination of the space we have to work with, my dreams of twin Garret GT2860-5's or "dash 5's" as they are more commonly known, have been dashed quite literally.

However "young" Chris has some rather interesting thoughts on what could be done with a larger single frame turbo, notably a Garrett GTX3582R.
So there is little future for aftermarket twin turbo setups?
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      04-01-2012, 09:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawn05 View Post
So there is little future for aftermarket twin turbo setups?
do this... lol

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      04-03-2012, 04:43 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance View Post
Haha,

thanks Edwin.

Yep, that is a lot of dyno pulls, I think it's around the 210-215 number now.

I believe the RB's could comfortably support 22-23 psi through the midrange, this would increase peak torque substantially, but the car already lights up the tyres at 2,500 rpm in second gear from a roll.

This is without Meth' on the low boost Map of the Procede, so whilst massive engine torque is great for bragging rights and a lot of fun with super sticky tyres, it is of no real use on the street.

FYI,

the RB turbo's on my car utilise a complete TD04 CHRA or cartridge.

As such they can support higher sustained boost pressures than their BMW OE TD03L counterparts, as the centre section bearings are more robust as is the shaft.

Peter is currently in the process of developing what would be considered a Stage 1 turbo upgrade with GCG, that will see the Mitsubishi TD03 compressor wheel swapped out for a new generation billet comp' wheel.

The inducer ID will also be increased in a similiar manner to the RB turbos, however I am told the turbine wheel and exhaust housing will no be altered.

We are also exploring the possibillity of removing my RB turbos, to make way for a Garrett turbo upgrade.

Unfortunately following a closer examination of the space we have to work with, my dreams of twin Garret GT2860-5's or "dash 5's" as they are more commonly known, have been dashed quite literally.

However "young" Chris has some rather interesting thoughts on what could be done with a larger single frame turbo, notably a Garrett GTX3582R.

Anyway whilst I am not a fan of open air cone intakes for a number of reasons, I would love to see if the OE air inlet path to the turbocharger inducer, is in fact a bottle neck...
I had this conversation months ago with Peter in regards to the "noisy" turbos people were experiencing with the stock turbos. The easiest thing is to just replace the centre housings, they are like $50 USD for a set of good cores with no shaft play.

Next step would be bigger twins, I know Peter was thinking about this a while ago and I believe Kenny had a conversation with Peter a few months back outlining the merits of going for a single turbo conversion over a set of aftermarket twins.

The downside of a STC is then you are on a slippery slope, the car won't look stock and resale will be severely hampered. BUT that isn't an issue or concern for everyone and a big single will make more than twins.
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      04-03-2012, 07:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1q2w3e4r View Post
I had this conversation months ago with Peter in regards to the "noisy" turbos people were experiencing with the stock turbos. The easiest thing is to just replace the centre housings, they are like $50 USD for a set of good cores with no shaft play.

Next step would be bigger twins, I know Peter was thinking about this a while ago and I believe Kenny had a conversation with Peter a few months back outlining the merits of going for a single turbo conversion over a set of aftermarket twins.

The downside of a STC is then you are on a slippery slope, the car won't look stock and resale will be severely hampered. BUT that isn't an issue or concern for everyone and a big single will make more than twins.
Benny I think Peter used that link you found to find good used centres for like USD $42 the other day on eBay!

I'm always a believer of well setup single vs smaller twins, but Peter might argue for circuit racing the twins are worth all the extra weight and complexity.

Luckily drag racing is well suited to those of us with simple minds and some scrape marks on the back of our hands.
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      04-06-2012, 03:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaihaX View Post
Would definitely love to see you guys get it and do some testing!

I am looking forward to what you guys come up for a turbo upgrade, my wallet is not though

What intake are you using? Dinan's?
Hey mate,

I very recently had a long conversation with Mr Rob Beck, he is quite confident the OE compressor air inlet pipes are hurting the performance of his turbos.

As to how much he is not entirely sure, but the rear turbo pipe is particularly nasty and it has to be a flow restriction, as you screw more boost into his turbos in the upper rev range.

He also said that 2.25" pipes would flow sufficient CFM and could be utilised in place of the 2.5" pipework in the kit being produced.

If "young" Chris could fab up a solution that saw the rear turbo pipe run behind the motor and not over the valve cover, whilst also retaining the use of the OE air box, I would cough up the "freight" and we would do or own kit.

I am using the Dinan CAI, whilst it's stupid expensive it does look quite sexy and I am not a fan at all of seeing cone filters in the engine bay.

I will keep you guys posted as to whether or not we get our hands on the US made kit, or do something home grown ourselves.

Cheers,

JD.
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      04-06-2012, 03:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1q2w3e4r View Post
I had this conversation months ago with Peter in regards to the "noisy" turbos people were experiencing with the stock turbos. The easiest thing is to just replace the centre housings, they are like $50 USD for a set of good cores with no shaft play.

Next step would be bigger twins, I know Peter was thinking about this a while ago and I believe Kenny had a conversation with Peter a few months back outlining the merits of going for a single turbo conversion over a set of aftermarket twins.

The downside of a STC is then you are on a slippery slope, the car won't look stock and resale will be severely hampered. BUT that isn't an issue or concern for everyone and a big single will make more than twins.
Hey Benny,

if "young" Chris could Frankenstein up a Garrett GT2860-5 conversion for the N54, I would not at all be considering a large single.

But after playing around with a -5 on Clinton's car whilst his OE turbos are being repaired, there is just no way in hell they will fit.

There is another option for upgraded twins that may just fit in the limited space we have to work with, but they will support considerably less power than -5's.

Last edited by Justin@ADVAN Performance; 04-06-2012 at 04:33 PM..
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      04-06-2012, 06:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance View Post
Hey mate,

I very recently had a long conversation with Mr Rob Beck, he is quite confident the OE compressor air inlet pipes are hurting the performance of his turbos.

As to how much he is not entirely sure, but the rear turbo pipe is particularly nasty and it has to be a flow restriction, as you screw more boost into his turbos in the upper rev range.

He also said that 2.25" pipes would flow sufficient CFM and could be utilised in place of the 2.5" pipework in the kit being produced.

If "young" Chris could fab up a solution that saw the rear turbo pipe run behind the motor and not over the valve cover, whilst also retaining the use of the OE air box, I would cough up the "freight" and we would do or own kit.

I am using the Dinan CAI, whilst it's stupid expensive it does look quite sexy and I am not a fan at all of seeing cone filters in the engine bay.

I will keep you guys posted as to whether or not we get our hands on the US made kit, or do something home grown ourselves.

Cheers,

JD.
Thanks for the info, would there be any gains on stock turbo or would this be purely for upgrade twins only?

Would be cool either way to see what kind of powers it produces and/or what kind of intake you guys come up with in-house.

I am also not a fan of the cone filters - that is why I am weighing up my options.
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      04-07-2012, 09:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaihaX View Post
Thanks for the info, would there be any gains on stock turbo or would this be purely for upgrade twins only?

Would be cool either way to see what kind of powers it produces and/or what kind of intake you guys come up with in-house.

I am also not a fan of the cone filters - that is why I am weighing up my options.
Hey mate,

with regards the potential for power gains on the stock TD03 turbos running at say 16-17 psi up top, that will depend on how restrictive the OE compressor intakes pipes truly are.

I have been discussing a method with Peter and "young" Chris, by which we could measure the resitance to airflow from the airbox to the compressor inducer, whilst the car is at WOT in 4th gear, under load on the dyno.

If in fact we are seeing a significant amount of vacuum across either pipe, there would be some horsepower gains to be had on the stock turbos and substantially more on "upped" RB turbos, that can sustain 19-20 psi of boost beyond 6,000 rpm.

I also dislike the look of cone filters in the engine bay and whilst I applaud the efforts of the US fabricator thus far, I would much prefer to retain the use of the OE airbox, in conjunction with my Dinan CAI.

Cheers,

JD.
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      04-17-2012, 02:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaihaX View Post
Would be cool either way to see what kind of powers it produces and/or what kind of intake you guys come up with in-house.
Hey Rey,

just to give you an update, I have been speaking to Peter regarding the above and we are considering doing a complete custom intake system on my car.

The stock air box base and Dinan CAI will go, as too will the BMW OE compressor inducer inlet pipes and the exducer pipe that feeds the hot side of the intercooler.

I will be at the workshop today and hopefully Peter and "young" Chris will have some time to spare, to discuss the setup in more detail with me.

If I decide to go ahead with it, I will be saying goodbye to my Dinan CAI, so please let me know if you are interested in purchasing it.

Cheers,

JD.
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