[3aficionado]

Originally Posted by DerekS

After reviewing all of the rumours about the supposed replacement of the 325i and/ or the 330i and the introduction of a future 335i, the only part that makes sense to me is the addition of a new and more expensive 335i model to the existing line-up.
Consider the US sales for the E90 in 2005. Both E90 325 and 330 sedans accounted for 57,639 units; of this total, 68% was 325 sedan and only 32% for the 330 sedan. BMWNA is not going to abbandon the 325 market by going further upmarket in this key entry level car for the marque. Yes, horsepower upgrades may well be in the future, but a substantial price increase at the bottom end will be unlikely given the competition.
I forsee a model lineup of 325i, 330i, 335, and M3.
The head of BMWNA recently stated that there will be no 1 series sedan/hatchback offered in the USA; only a coupe version is being considered. Thus the 325, or maybe the 323 that we already have in Canada, will remain the entry level car for the US.

Who says there needs to be a "substantial price increase" for the 325/8 just because HP is going up slightly? The 328 can still be the entry level vehicle for the US just with a little more HP. The changes to the 325 to make a 328 would be minor and not costly.

I do like the idea of a 323, 328 and 335. There hasn't been more than a 2 model lineup for the regular 3 series in the US since the late model e36's.

[stressdoc]

I suppose a 28k 323 would sell in the USA. Kind of diminishes the stature of the beast, but so many sales are not performance based to begin with, and it might improve the fleet gas mileage a bit. Release the 335i turbo in euro, then bring it over several months later to NA. I am tired of the NA market being treated like second-class citizens.

The spiteful whining of those who fear a more powerful 2007 model sounds silly to me. I am tired of reading road tests that apologize for the inability of the E90 to keep up with the IS350 or C350. If the 335 is too expensive I will be happy with a 328, even if it is a bit slower than the current 330i. I mean, who cares, really? Do we expect BMW to sit back and do nothing regardless of what competing makes do?

[england1987]

They said they are eliminating 325i and 330i, and replacing with 328i and 335i

[shertel]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

I do not think the value of the 325 or 330 would be diminished by the introduction of the 335i. To the contrary, I think part of the marketing logic of getting the 335i to the USA as quickly as possible is to shore up the "sports" mystique of the 3-series, which is hurting from competition from Audi, MB, Infinity, and Lexus. It is not good for the 3-series to have the rep of being the slow one -- I know, I know, speed is more than 0-60 times, but go to any of the forementioned competitors' dealerships and you will hear nothing but how their cars are faster than BMWs, and they have the stats on 0-60 times & HP to back it up. This is not good for the E90. We need a flagship ASAP.

Our guesstimates of +5k over MSRP for the 330i are probably close. I am still clinging to the hope that I can get one without any options (assuming it comes with some equivalent to the M-sport pack) on an ED at invoice +1k for under 40k.

This is all very interesting discussion, but my only question is will the new couple look better than the sedan or the simply awful p-shops that have been released? I have never purchased a car that I thought was ugly and I don't think I ever will.

Granted, it would be nice if my next BMW performed at least as well as the other players when it came to track times. If nothing else, just ensure me it will look decent.

I don't care what any of you rationalizers out there say -- the new 3 is simply Toyota looking. Flame on, but you know I'm right. Bangle is on a personal vendetta to destroy BMW.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by shertel

I don't care what any of you rationalizers out there say -- the new 3 is simply Toyota looking. Flame on, but you know I'm right. Bangle is on a personal vendetta to destroy BMW.

Just as E36 owners were saying the E46 looked like a Honda Civic. I remember thinking the E46 looked like a "girlie car" until I saw the ZHP.


My guess is that the coupe will cost atleast $3-4k or more. They'll want to price it between a base E46M3 and the E90. I'm just guessing of course.

[stressdoc]

Most of the basic exterior designs meld into a generic soup. The high end firms have iconic traditions that help distinguish them from the pack -- viz twin kidneys etc. Then tack on high end performance markers like wide alloy wheels, xenons, quality paint, and you have put yourself up a shelf or two.

What I am concerned with is freude am fahren. And bimmers rock in that category.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by shertel

Bangle is on a personal vendetta to destroy BMW.

You do understand that Bangle didn't design the E90. Infact, the individual who designed the E90 also designed the E39. You should also understand that BMW's BOD approved the new designs.

[Will L.]

Not sure if this has been posted yet:

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/01/12/t...-in-the-works/

[shertel]

Originally Posted by Socom

You do understand that Bangle didn't design the E90. Infact, the individual who designed the E90 also designed the E39. You should also understand that BMW's BOD approved the new designs.

Didn't know that. Still sucks. I don't like the styling across the board.

Bear in mind these are just my personal views and I am a fan of BMW engineering. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and there is no accounting for taste. Some people actually find the Mona Lisa attractive and who am I to dispute them?

Z4 - is the land shark look really that cool? whats with the door cuts?
7 series - awful start, getting better, and the 2008-2009 model looks to be back on track
5 series - ouch, I'd rather buy the previous gen. based on looks alone.
6 series - whats with the droop look front and the detached looking rear section?

[shertel]

Originally Posted by Socom

Just as E36 owners were saying the E46 looked like a Honda Civic. I remember thinking the E46 looked like a "girlie car" until I saw the ZHP.


My guess is that the coupe will cost atleast $3-4k or more. They'll want to price it between a base E46M3 and the E90. I'm just guessing of course.

You got me there. I too thought the E46 coupe looked civic-ish. Then again I liked that particular generation civic style-wise.

But looking from E36 to E46, you have to concede that a certain evolutionary path was followed. When you looked at an E46, you instantly knew that it was a BMW right from its introduction. I'm still pointing out the E90 to friends and explaining that its the new 3 series. Should I have to do that with a marque and model that have been around since the late 60's (if you consider the 2002)?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by shertel

You got me there. I too thought the E46 coupe looked civic-ish. Then again I liked that particular generation civic style-wise.

But looking from E36 to E46, you have to concede that a certain evolutionary path was followed. When you looked at an E46, you instantly knew that it was a BMW right from its introduction. I'm still pointing out the E90 to friends and explaining that its the new 3 series. Should I have to do that with a marque and model that have been around since the late 60's (if you consider the 2002)?

I hear ya. I think the E90 has the similiar lines as E46, but they're more pronounced.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by shertel

Didn't know that. Still sucks. I don't like the styling across the board.

Bear in mind these are just my personal views and I am a fan of BMW engineering. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and there is no accounting for taste. Some people actually find the Mona Lisa attractive and who am I to dispute them?

Z4 - is the land shark look really that cool? whats with the door cuts?
7 series - awful start, getting better, and the 2008-2009 model looks to be back on track
5 series - ouch, I'd rather buy the previous gen. based on looks alone.
6 series - whats with the droop look front and the detached looking rear section?

I agree.

[bimmer4me]

Originally Posted by shertel

Z4 - is the land shark look really that cool? whats with the door cuts?
7 series - awful start, getting better, and the 2008-2009 model looks to be back on track
5 series - ouch, I'd rather buy the previous gen. based on looks alone.
6 series - whats with the droop look front and the detached looking rear section?

IMO...
Z4 - good looking, but like like the Z3 look better
5 series - best looking BMW
6 series - don't like it too much...I'm just not fan of big coupes
7 series - looks awesome to me

[Bimmerista]

Originally Posted by bimmer4me

IMO...
Z4 - good looking, but like like the Z3 look better
5 series - best looking BMW
6 series - don't like it too much...I'm just not fan of big coupes
7 series - looks awesome to me

INMHO:

Z4-looks very nice, now looks even better
Z4 coupe-gorgeous, the only thing nicer is the Cayman;
5 series - best looking mid-size sedan all-in, period;
6 series - not a fan of big coupes either, but it is a good looking one; and
7 series-was very ugly, now looks good and the spy shots of the 2008 one leads me to believe it will be looker.



Oh, and the 3 series is the best looking in its category as far as I am concerned, better than the competition.

[abc]

Originally Posted by shertel

I don't care what any of you rationalizers out there say -- the new 3 is simply Toyota looking. Flame on, but you know I'm right. Bangle is on a personal vendetta to destroy BMW.

i've rarely heard anyone say the bmw looks like a toyota... only the rear lights.

i've thought it looked very european, and seems to be a great modernized rendition of the 3series shape. and was ultra surprised the design comes from a japanese bmw designer.

If Bangle was to destroy bmw then the 3series would look just like the 7 and the 5 as they were identified as his rotten eggs. But many of us identify the 3 as being the most 'unbangled'...

I do not believe Bangle was even involved with the 3 as much as he was with the upper series so this toyota looking 3 was not even his bullet.

[Bimmerista]

And the marketplace does not agree with the naysayers - BMW had a record year in 2005.

[kobechrome]

Originally Posted by Bimmerista

And the marketplace does not agree with the naysayers - BMW had a record year in 2005.

Actually 3 series sales were pretty flat in 2005 (up 0.4%) although the 1st half of the year was still old e46 models so that might explain it.

e90 is beautiful. e46 was beautiful too but it's definitely starting to look its age. Plus, the e46 is as common as the civic on the road right now so I'm kinda numb to it. When I see an e90 though, I always do a doubletake.

[shertel]

Originally Posted by Bimmerista

INMHO:

Z4-looks very nice, now looks even better
Z4 coupe-gorgeous, the only thing nicer is the Cayman;
5 series - best looking mid-size sedan all-in, period;
6 series - not a fan of big coupes either, but it is a good looking one; and
7 series-was very ugly, now looks good and the spy shots of the 2008 one leads me to believe it will be looker.



Oh, and the 3 series is the best looking in its category as far as I am concerned, better than the competition.

Not saying you have no taste, but I've never heard that the Cayman is a great looking car. On the contrary, most people comment on how "weird" it looks.

$0.02

[Dawg Nuts]

Any estimates on how much 335i will be and when will it arrive in NA?

[abc]

guess the price depends if bmw merely widens the product line with the new engine or instead of widening, upgrade the existing 2 cars in the 3 series line.

if the latter, i think it'd be unadvantageous of bmw competition curve wise as the 'leader' to add 1-2+k to both cars in the 3 line just because you popped more HP to match better with other cars who you've acknowledged are already there, and raising the 'entry' point of the lower end 3series by 1-2+k.

so if bmw doesn't want to totally give something up for 'free'... (injecting more HP engines before the model refresh they'are already giving up on 1 major bullet of their model refresh) they'd widen the 3 line.

but if they really want to give the person who hasn't yet bought their 3, a EASY decision bet. a 3 vs. a IS or _____, even easier...

it'd be the situation where the line wasn't widened, retain 2 cars in the 3line, and maintain the price within +- 300 - 600bucks if at all while giving you the increased HP.

[stressdoc]

If the NA 335i is the same as the Euro bi-turbo 335i it will have a substantial (>3k) price increase over the current NA 330i. I think the combined wisdom, such as it is, predicts that BMW NA is unlikely to market the bi-turbo as the 'upper-level' of two E90s, i.e. as a 330 replacement. Too bad -- what a car! But there are many other possibilities for the NA 335i that seem to have been discussed to death on this list.

[3aficionado]

Originally Posted by shertel

Bangle is on a personal vendetta to destroy BMW.

What kind of personal vendetta would Bangle have against BMW? Did I miss some news? Why would he try to ruin the company he works for and that his given him such freedom in his designs (be it good or bad outcomes)?

From LeftLane News
… at this year’s auto show in Detroit, designs resembling Bangle’s work are cropping up everywhere — in designs from Mercedes, Lexus, Toyota, and Infiniti. ”Suddenly, everyone is trying to do the kind of styling for which the auto journalists criticized the BMW group so loudly,” BMW Chief Executive Helmut Panke crowed at a dinner with reporters here. “You look at the Camry rear end and you see another 7 Series. It is not the ‘Bangle butt’ anymore.”