02-27-2013, 08:22 AM | #23 | |
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"The mark of a great car is one whose overall competence exceeds what you should expect from its individual components and the 1M does just that", Chris Harris.
BMW 1M-SOLD-: TECH: Evolve Race+N55mids, Evolve IC, Michelin PSS, ER cp, aFe filter, CDVx, Vorshlag camber plates, BMS OCC EXTERIOR: trunk spoiler, blacklines, black grills, IND goodies INTERIOR: Alcantara steering wheel, steel pedals, custom mats, MPower e-brake. |
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02-27-2013, 08:29 AM | #24 |
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The FMIC on the cold side attaches to the lower charge pipe, which is not part of the “charge pipe” you’re thinking of. So I’d imagine the ER would couple just like any of the other FMICs, I don’t see an inherent advantage there. But to be clear, I’ve never handled the ER unit in person, I just know that it comes very highly recommended and ER is a great company. The optional carbon fiber shroud is badass too.
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02-27-2013, 10:11 AM | #25 | |
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I heard ER is very good too but it looks much bigger and heavier than the ETS, I think it is bigger than 5 inch core as well.
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"The mark of a great car is one whose overall competence exceeds what you should expect from its individual components and the 1M does just that", Chris Harris.
BMW 1M-SOLD-: TECH: Evolve Race+N55mids, Evolve IC, Michelin PSS, ER cp, aFe filter, CDVx, Vorshlag camber plates, BMS OCC EXTERIOR: trunk spoiler, blacklines, black grills, IND goodies INTERIOR: Alcantara steering wheel, steel pedals, custom mats, MPower e-brake. |
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02-27-2013, 10:37 AM | #26 |
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I really don't see how 20 lbs or so weight difference in the fmic will affect the cars balance or handling. The car does weigh 3300 lbs. 20 lbs is less than 1% of its total weight.
And it's not part of the rotating mass. |
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02-27-2013, 10:44 AM | #27 |
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ETS makes great intercoolers. Their engineering and quality holds up to the 1500whp GTR kits, lots of the Evo and Subie guys like their quality too. They are proven and are able to provide tangible data to back up their claims. That is what sold me on the ETS kit to start. I would love to try more though and be able to compare, as best i can, between the performance of each.
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02-27-2013, 11:16 AM | #28 | |
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So, question is why will I change to a "better" aftermarket IC since I have one which works in "my" conditions, easily the lightest and also potentially with the least lag and best response? As nachob says in his post it also comes with a factory warranty and is already there since I bought the car new I like to change things and put better ones instead only when I see a need. I will change the stock ic if I move to a warmer location and/or if I tune the engine.
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"The mark of a great car is one whose overall competence exceeds what you should expect from its individual components and the 1M does just that", Chris Harris.
BMW 1M-SOLD-: TECH: Evolve Race+N55mids, Evolve IC, Michelin PSS, ER cp, aFe filter, CDVx, Vorshlag camber plates, BMS OCC EXTERIOR: trunk spoiler, blacklines, black grills, IND goodies INTERIOR: Alcantara steering wheel, steel pedals, custom mats, MPower e-brake. |
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02-27-2013, 11:32 AM | #29 | |
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i dont think you can feel the extra 20lbs, especially not in the type of driving you are talking about. what i do think is that in that type of driving, it is proven in logs all over this forum and other forums that you will likely be encountering timing drops and pre-detonation to possibly detonation events with the stock FMIC even on the stock tune. the much lower IAT and resistence to heat soak gained from a 5 inch FMIC massively outweighs whatever possible negatives gained from an addiitonal 10-20lbs over the stock FMIC. i still firmly believe there is no way you can notice any negative effects from 10-20 lbs added on the street driving like that. I also think its a major mistake to assume all is good under the hood by "feeling" like there are no negative effects from the stock FMIC. Real proof comes from datalogging. You will absolutely take stress off your engine and run smoother in those, or any, conditions with an upgraded FMIC.
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02-27-2013, 12:12 PM | #30 | |
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And don't blame me, without a real track around that's all I could possibly do (not even legally) with a car like 1M! I am probably over-sensitive with weight and throttle response related issues, and not keen to do anything which may have the slightest negative effect on those. Much like how I feel about my own body: loose weight and stay sharp after 40 years old
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"The mark of a great car is one whose overall competence exceeds what you should expect from its individual components and the 1M does just that", Chris Harris.
BMW 1M-SOLD-: TECH: Evolve Race+N55mids, Evolve IC, Michelin PSS, ER cp, aFe filter, CDVx, Vorshlag camber plates, BMS OCC EXTERIOR: trunk spoiler, blacklines, black grills, IND goodies INTERIOR: Alcantara steering wheel, steel pedals, custom mats, MPower e-brake. |
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02-27-2013, 12:38 PM | #31 |
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Same-day testing results of the Forge FMIC are attached. Testing procedure was to do 3 consecutive runs at normal operating temperature in 4th gear starting at 2500rpm till 7000rpm. The attached runs compare the 3rd run (hottest) from before and after the FMIC install. We didn't have enough time to install our external pressure and temp sensors, but the results were clearly favorable.
Results are from a 2011 135i with no mods other than the PPK software updgrade. |
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02-27-2013, 02:44 PM | #33 |
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True. ETS is a great company. I've used their intercoolers before with good success. I wanted to keep the factory connectors, which limits the options. I've not seen anything proving that the lower pipe swap makes a real difference when compared to a good upgraded FMIC with the stock connectors/pipe. Do you know if any tests have been performed?
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02-27-2013, 02:47 PM | #34 |
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I completely agree with this. The biggest issue with aftermarket intercoolers is the extra 15 lbs or more, in my opinion. I'm sure there are lots of drivers that would not notice; it's well less than the difference between a full and empty gas tank, for example. However I believe many drivers could notice that difference if they tried- the car puts power down better with a full gas tank, etc. BMW's piece, while many consider it flimsy, is very light. I wish there was an aftermarket offering that came close.
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02-27-2013, 02:58 PM | #35 | |
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So whether the intercooler benefits "massively outweigh" the negatives depends on usage. Drag racing, sure. In a number of other cases I don't agree, however.
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02-27-2013, 03:05 PM | #36 |
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you seem to be hung up on cost. cost has nothing to do with anything. figure out what you want out of the car (fast daily driver, full blown track car, etc) and then go from there. if your looking for a fast daily driver any one will do.
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02-27-2013, 03:30 PM | #38 | |
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Not to mention I was specifically responding to the op commenting that he frequently did hour long drives consistently at high rpm. Nothing to do with autocross. Again, I seriously doubt anyone could notice 10 lbs at the front of the car. Swapping to different tires would equal 100x more of a difference. As far as lag goes, depends on the setup. I have noticed zero lag when using ets on my prior 335i 6mt. Stock or tuned. If you are focused on the 1m as a focused auto x car I think one would be missing the point. And if you are more concerned with 10lbs at the front end than high iat and related detonation, well, we will have to agree to disagree
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02-27-2013, 04:13 PM | #39 |
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^^^
Too much bench racing in this thread....thanks Ian for providing some real impressions! Any data logs with the ETS IC on the track? Notice the timing being pulled at all? |
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02-27-2013, 04:40 PM | #40 | |
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Porsche charges 3k to remove 20 lbs from the nose of their cars with a Lithium battery. BMW probably spent that to more than that to remove 1/2 that weight from the roof of the M3. You only paid a grand to add that same amount of weight in the wrong place on the car. Sounds like a deal. With road course use in hotter weather an intercooler may be justified, but it does come with a price other than the dollar value, and like everything else that goes into a car weight should be considered in the equation.
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02-27-2013, 05:44 PM | #41 |
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Timing pulls occur as a result of pre detonation / detonation events. Data logs all over the forum show that.
Porsche also charges 3k for custom color seatbelts among other things. Agree to disagree. I consider smoothing the engines response out more important than adding 10 lbs in the front of a 3300 lb car. I also like not throwing codes or going into limp mode on the track. Jmo |
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02-27-2013, 05:54 PM | #42 | |
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I agree everything goes in comes with a price and it is never all pretty; well maybe with the shitty stock mids, anything else is perfect. Let's go back to topic fellows, for people who need to buy an aftermarket IC which is the best one and why so. I know I will go with ETS when I need to add one, since it seems to come with least burden and thanks to everyone who confirmed this impression I had.
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"The mark of a great car is one whose overall competence exceeds what you should expect from its individual components and the 1M does just that", Chris Harris.
BMW 1M-SOLD-: TECH: Evolve Race+N55mids, Evolve IC, Michelin PSS, ER cp, aFe filter, CDVx, Vorshlag camber plates, BMS OCC EXTERIOR: trunk spoiler, blacklines, black grills, IND goodies INTERIOR: Alcantara steering wheel, steel pedals, custom mats, MPower e-brake. |
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02-27-2013, 06:46 PM | #43 |
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Should be proud of yourself, you are a wise man. After all those mods your car still retains the factory equilibrium
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"The mark of a great car is one whose overall competence exceeds what you should expect from its individual components and the 1M does just that", Chris Harris.
BMW 1M-SOLD-: TECH: Evolve Race+N55mids, Evolve IC, Michelin PSS, ER cp, aFe filter, CDVx, Vorshlag camber plates, BMS OCC EXTERIOR: trunk spoiler, blacklines, black grills, IND goodies INTERIOR: Alcantara steering wheel, steel pedals, custom mats, MPower e-brake. |
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02-27-2013, 06:57 PM | #44 | |
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