Small, Black, Strong - Interview with Albert Biermann on the 1M Coupé

[Jblack4083]

Originally Posted by MikeinAlexandria

Why marred? The old E30 M3 did not come with an automatic. I am not sure. Any M car should. But certainly not the 1M. M is about driving purity and performance. It is not about having a car that drives more easily in heavy traffic, for that, a 123wd would be completely fine.

I am sure if one really wanted a DCT in a 1M, it would be possible, and probably for less money than the cost of an M3 with DCT.

So many irrational statements in this post. Face it, DCT offers better performance which ultimately means better times. Not including DCT as an option seems mediocre. However it seems they didnt do it to cater to the dinosaur mentality of manual only but moreso not to step on the toes of the manual M3. With a DCT the 1M would probably do about 4.8 where the manual M3 does 4.7 . Including DCT as an option would create a situation where sales of the M3 would be cannibalized, ESPECIALLY enhanced by the fact that the 1M is turbocharged and would be able to be tuned to be faster than even the DCT M3. Why would people spend more on an M3 in that scenario? The exclusion of DCT allows them to create a bigger gap between the two cars and forces customers to really decide between the two cars instead of it being "a no-brainer." they need to maintain an up-selling point for the M3

In a nutshell if you think BMW decided to include only a M/T to "cater to true driving enthusiasts" you are simply a successful product of BMW's marketing department.

[Remonster]

Are you sure "M3 predecessor" means E46 M3? I have a hard time believing this thing isn't faster than an E9x M3. A 135i is only .2 seconds slower to 60 than an M3 and it's mainly the diff and skinny tires (especially up front) that makes an M3 much quicker through turns.

I test drove the E92 M3 with DCT hard through some twisty roads and then drove an E92 335i with all the Performance parts (power kit, suspension, exhaust etc.) and a 135i and bought the 135i over the M3 only because of price and insurance. The M3 is the superior car but only marginally. I'll be willing to bet that in independent reviews, the 1M will indeed be faster than the current M3.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by Remonster

Are you sure "M3 predecessor" means E46 M3?

I'm completely sure.


Best regards,
south

[niuniu]

Originally Posted by Remonster

Are you sure "M3 predecessor" means E46 M3? I have a hard time believing this thing isn't faster than an E9x M3. A 135i is only .2 seconds slower to 60 than an M3 and it's mainly the diff and skinny tires (especially up front) that makes an M3 much quicker through turns.

I test drove the E92 M3 with DCT hard through some twisty roads and then drove an E92 335i with all the Performance parts (power kit, suspension, exhaust etc.) and a 135i and bought the 135i over the M3 only because of price and insurance. The M3 is the superior car but only marginally. I'll be willing to bet that in independent reviews, the 1M will indeed be faster than the current M3.

Nurburgring is a big track, the high end grunt of a V8 really means a lot on it compared to a lot of the smaller tracks. For them to say the 1M will come within 10 secs of the powerful (and light) V8 of the M3 means a lot. Whether it turns out to be true will be another matter! I do hope so though

Nordschleife
135i - 8:39.2
1M - 8.15?
E92 M3 - 8:05

[friscogypsee]

Originally Posted by dtc100

Driving in an M3 while knowing the new Mustang next to you is shoulder to shoulder against you at 1/2 of the cost is not a good feeling.

Shoulder to shoulder in a straight line! Let's see what happens around the twisties. Can't wait for this car looks like it's gonna be great.

[Quasimodem]

Originally Posted by friscogypsee

Shoulder to shoulder in a straight line! Let's see what happens around the twisties. Can't wait for this car looks like it's gonna be great.

I understand the new mustang is now good in the twisties too.

[dtc100]

Originally Posted by friscogypsee

Shoulder to shoulder in a straight line! Let's see what happens around the twisties. Can't wait for this car looks like it's gonna be great.

I test drove so many cars before landing on my BMW in part because it handled bends so well, after replacing the stock RFTs with the Hancook evo v12s, it was another incremental improvement.

But that is beyond the point. Most drivers I have seen don't appreciate such capability, rather mainly impressed by how fast a car takes off. I am a little disappointed with the M1 coupe's such limited availability though. It will command a premium for quite some time, which casts doubt of my ability to acquire one in a few years.

[dtc100]

Originally Posted by Quasimodem

I understand the new mustang is now good in the twisties too.

On the other hand, the new M1's aggresive stance might push the buttons of a few domestic/Japanese muscle car buyers.

[kmarei]

BMW 1M=135is
Talk about disappointment
I know this will piss off a lot of people
But it seems to me the 1M is a tester for the next, new shape, 1M which will be a proper M
Shame cuz I was seriously considering selling my M3 to get this
But not with 340hp, or basically a rehashed 335is engine

[vinny84]

Originally Posted by kmarei

BMW 1M=135is
Talk about disappointment
I know this will piss off a lot of people
But it seems to me the 1M is a tester for the next, new shape, 1M which will be a proper M
Shame cuz I was seriously considering selling my M3 to get this
But not with 340hp, or basically a rehashed 335is engine

What makes you think they are using an off the shelf N54 without beefing up internals or even the hpfp? It's more than likely the M division is keeping their end of the bargain. We already know this car is using M3 chassis, brakes, and LSD, 80mm wider than current 1er, etc. This car will be in every way a true ///M

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by Jblack4083

So many irrational statements in this post. Face it, DCT offers better performance which ultimately means better times. Not including DCT as an option seems mediocre. However it seems they didnt do it to cater to the dinosaur mentality of manual only but moreso not to step on the toes of the manual M3. With a DCT the 1M would probably do about 4.8 where the manual M3 does 4.7 . Including DCT as an option would create a situation where sales of the M3 would be cannibalized, ESPECIALLY enhanced by the fact that the 1M is turbocharged and would be able to be tuned to be faster than even the DCT M3. Why would people spend more on an M3 in that scenario? The exclusion of DCT allows them to create a bigger gap between the two cars and forces customers to really decide between the two cars instead of it being "a no-brainer." they need to maintain an up-selling point for the M3

In a nutshell if you think BMW decided to include only a M/T to "cater to true driving enthusiasts" you are simply a successful product of BMW's marketing department.

Actually the short development time/budget really did not allow for the development of the DCT in this application- no marketing BS there just facts. People don't realize that code must be written for the motor, transmission and DSC in each application. If DCT was to be included it would have needed another 8-12 months to vet the software and all that. This is from engineers and NOT marketing. They can spin it anyway they want but the truth is that there was not enough time or enough funding to make things go faster (more engineers and testing).

They include a DCT in the 335is so that gap thing you talk about as a reason to omit it makes little sense.

[technik330]

^

School is in......

[Remonster]

I just reread the interview and he was talking about the E46 M3 when he used the phrase 'M3 predecessor' so I guess that's about as a clear as it could be.

I still think the 1 M Coupe will be close to if not faster than an E92 M3 especially on short and tight circuits. It has the same suspension and brakes as the M3 in a smaller and lighter body with more torque so I can only see the M3 being faster in places like the Nordschlieffe where the M3's top end is constantly taken advantage of.

[friscogypsee]

Those pics are fun to look at. That things all beefed up on the sides, like a buff-ass 135i, sick

[friscogypsee]

Originally Posted by kmarei

BMW 1M=135is
Talk about disappointment
I know this will piss off a lot of people
But it seems to me the 1M is a tester for the next, new shape, 1M which will be a proper M
Shame cuz I was seriously considering selling my M3 to get this
But not with 340hp, or basically a rehashed 335is engine

Yeah but the torque's supposed to be huge so i'm not drawing any conclusions yet. Suspension, brakes and wheels are M3. Slightly slower around the ring than e92 m3, with a few performance upgrades it could match or beat m3. m3's new baby brother.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by dtc100

Who cares what's been written? Do you seriously believe BMW will admit to this?

But if you can come out of the shell of the BMW fanatics, think about someone who is in the market for a loaded muscle car, his budget only allows him to look for the new Mustang, or the new Camero, or the new Charger...or one of those Japanese...now he learns there is a similarly priced (ok maybe not so similar but still way batter than a loaded M3) BMW coupe, big enough in size too, he may decide to give his local BMW dealer a visit...

But if the only goal of this new M1 coupe is to cater to a segment of the BMW clients, I say it will actually piss off some, because this new M1 coupe will be bigger than the 335is coupe (at least wider for sure), more powerful and much faster than the 335is coupe, and possibly cost less than the 335is too.

When the 135tii came out in 2007, there were whispers of a M version. They have been testing in public since Nov of last yr, Well before the 2011 Mustang 5.0 came out and the M3 comparison. So, get that conspiracy
theory out of your head.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by ///mmmKevin

I really doubt it's like that.

We all know BMW doesn't play the "one-up" game. Who cares if "critics" want to compare a cheap american car to a M3? If BMW made a car specifically to shut the critics up, they would just become another car company...

Also, I think it all comes down to niche markets. There are A LOT of young guys like myself that dream of having an M car but it won't be for a couple of years until we're able to afford one.

The 135i M Coupe totally bridges the gap between the 135i (10/10 on the fun scale but of course no M) and the M3 (100/10 on the fun scale, M but expensive).

BMW is really just filling a gap between 2 cars.

At a $45K starting price, $48k probably with most common options, this isn't realistic for a young buyer.
At only 2700 cars worldwide, it's also not for the general market either.

The next full production 1M coupe will be a more market realistic automobile.
This one is a curiosity more likely to be picked up by buyers with money to spend for a rare car and rarely drive it, collectors, with some enthusiasts thrown in.

For me, it might bridge the "gap" between an E46 M3 and a 135i, but not the current, let alone new M3, and the 135i.
It's more like a higher tuned 135i, but that's not all bad.
$45K isn't really a bad price for this car. It would be even better if it came with some packages included in the price, like the premium pkg.
But that won't happen, it would be too close in price to my 09 with prem, and sport at around $41K.

For the driving enthusiast who could care less about powered seats and auto dimming mirrors, a base 1M coupe for $45K will have excellent driving performance, with a bit more power than a standard 135i, and a FULL warranty.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by dtc100

Who cares what's been written? Do you seriously believe BMW will admit to this?

But if you can come out of the shell of the BMW fanatics, think about someone who is in the market for a loaded muscle car, his budget only allows him to look for the new Mustang, or the new Camero, or the new Charger...or one of those Japanese...now he learns there is a similarly priced (ok maybe not so similar but still way batter than a loaded M3) BMW coupe, big enough in size too, he may decide to give his local BMW dealer a visit...

But if the only goal of this new M1 coupe is to cater to a segment of the BMW clients, I say it will actually piss off some, because this new M1 coupe will be bigger than the 335is coupe (at least wider for sure), more powerful and much faster than the 335is coupe, and possibly cost less than the 335is too.

I certainly respect your opinion, but I can't share it.
The 1M coupe doesn't seem to be a response to the GT at all, especially with a modest power bump to only 340HP. Even with a temporary over boost, in terms of American "muscle car", it can't hang with the GT.
Handling wise it will very likely outshine it. But, handling prowess isn't really a muscle car must have, even though the new GT does pretty well in that area.

If BMW really wanted to respond to the new GT, then the standard 135i should be bumped to around 350hp with torque around 380lb ft continuous, and a proper suspension. The 135i is the better competitor to the GT as it has the availability of the GT.
The 1M coupe is very limited in numbers to be any serious competitor to the GT, market wise.

[jraymond]

Originally Posted by Itanius

Since we're fairly certain the engine is N54 based, I'm curious to see if (and how) BMW's M Division has addressed the HPFP issue or if they've just buried it beneath the hype.

I would gamble on no fix given limited production run. They will be pissing off people that will buy a bmw no matter what IMO.

On another note I am surprised at lack of anything exciting to say at this point regards to the "nearly production ready car" exhaust note. That part has satisfied me most on passing on this car. At one point scott26 mentioned that the car would have a racy exhaust compared to the new bmw superbike (forgot model).

[Yogijet]

Originally Posted by MikeinAlexandria

Why marred? The old E30 M3 did not come with an automatic. I am not sure. Any M car should. But certainly not the 1M. M is about driving purity and performance. It is not about having a car that drives more easily in heavy traffic, for that, a 123wd would be completely fine.

I am sure if one really wanted a DCT in a 1M, it would be possible, and probably for less money than the cost of an M3 with DCT.

That is a very limited view of a BMW buyer's interest in a two pedaler. There are one-legged true enthusiasts/driving puritans, and there are true enthusiasts who are nursing long-term left knee injuries, among others, who would be keen to get around the wheel of one of these. Having a clutch just opens the door to just one element of performance driving, and if the two pedal transmission is a good one, which by all indications the BMW DCTs are, then all you lose is the personal satisfaction of clutching. You still need to know how to shift, and surely how to drive, which knowing how/wishing to use a clutch adeptly does not by itself satisfy.

And as for limited views of a buyer's choice in the context, some of us here would not even sniff the tailpipe of your car much less buy, because (i) it's a 128i; and (ii) it's a convertible, but that's your choice for your own personal reasons which I suspect you understand better than anybody else. An auto purchase, and more particularly so, a BMW purchase, reflects a personal choice so yes, the release of the 1-series M coupe without the the DCT does mar the whole thing for many and for good reason, for those many...and by the way, the 123d is a great car.

[E30M3Driver]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

No, as already written, the 1M is not made in response to the mustang or critics. BMW make cars for the person behind the wheel, not for any particular critic. They devised the 1M as an entry level M car for fans. And not specifically in response to the Mustang.

Some of us don't see it as an entry level M car, but rather a proper modern replacement for the original E30 M3 which we have been wanting ever since the E36 came out. The E92 M3 is for sure not it. I am not sure the 1M is either, although it is a lot closer in concept but without a normally aspirated, high reving engine, I don't think it quite makes it.

[vinny84]

Originally Posted by E30M3Driver

Some of us don't see it as an entry level M car, but rather a proper modern replacement for the original E30 M3 which we have been wanting ever since the E36 came out. The E92 M3 is for sure not it. I am not sure the 1M is either, although it is a lot closer in concept but without a normally aspirated, high reving engine, I don't think it quite makes it.

Forced induction is the future of cars in every brand, seems that way at least.