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      06-16-2014, 08:48 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Yeah, I've owned an S54 Z3M roady, an S54 Z3M coupe, an S54 M3 coupe, and an S54 Z4M. I'm very familiar with the engine (I even blew two of them up thanks to wonderful BMW bearing engineering). I'm comparing the output to a COBB Stage 2+ N54. At that point, there is no comparison. Not to mention the awful rasp of that engine.
How did you manage to blow two up? That's not even a remotely likely occurrence.
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      06-16-2014, 09:13 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
How did you manage to blow two up? That's not even a remotely likely occurrence.
Maybes he's blaming the car on things that he did.


Aso if you didn't like the s54 why did you keep buying them?
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      06-16-2014, 09:26 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Maybes he's blaming the car on things that he did.


Aso if you didn't like the s54 why did you keep buying them?
It just is mind boggling to me. It's an iron block with massively beefed up components and a trans to match. Outside of HPF's idiotic 1000hp builds, you really don't see people killing them, ever.
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      06-16-2014, 09:35 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Maybes he's blaming the car on things that he did.


Aso if you didn't like the s54 why did you keep buying them?
Don't see anything in ST|G's list that shows S54...?


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Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
It just is mind boggling to me. It's an iron block with massively beefed up components and a trans to match. Outside of HPF's idiotic 1000hp builds, you really don't see people killing them, ever.
Blow up might be a stretch but early S54's were known to have rod bearing issues and even newer ones still show premature failure.
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      06-16-2014, 09:48 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by 3002 tii View Post
Don't see anything in ST|G's list that shows S54...?
He was talking about Nicky.

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Originally Posted by 3002 tii View Post
Blow up might be a stretch but early S54's were known to have rod bearing issues and even newer ones still show premature failure.
The rod bearings on the early ones simply weren't built to their spec(which was addressed in a terrible fashion by BMW), and the later ones are a wear item with a ~100k interval. Similar engines like the Metzger GT3's have even shorter intervals. It is simply a factor of "street spec race" engine ownership.
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      06-16-2014, 10:50 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
How did you manage to blow two up? That's not even a remotely likely occurrence.
Sort of pushes the meter a little.
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      06-16-2014, 10:59 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Maybes he's blaming the car on things that he did.


Aso if you didn't like the s54 why did you keep buying them?
He probably enjoyed the S54 cars while he had them but then broadened his enjoyment when he got his 135i. Nothing wrong with his opinion. He personally enjoys the 135i more than the S54. No one can debate with that.

S54 is a high strung motor and does have rodbearing and a few other issues.
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      06-16-2014, 11:20 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
How did you manage to blow two up? That's not even a remotely likely occurrence.
Early models (01-02) had the rod bearing issue. I detonated an 01 Z3M roady with less than 20k miles on it and then blew up an 01 Z3 M Coupe with nearly 40k miles on it about 4 years later. Luckily both were under warranty and both were fixed with no cost to me. Unlike the M3s, the Z3M powered S54 cars didn't have the bearing recall for the motors (BMW claimed the spun bearings were due to the higher redlines on the M3 which was total BS). Z3Ms are prone to this issue, as all of the motors made during that time period may have the suspect bearings. I wouldn't touch an S54 powered Z3M (unless the motor had been replaced) now that the warranties are out. Those motors are all ticking time bombs. It's a shame, because I love the Z3M. If I were to get another Z3M, it would be an 98-00 with the S52, and then I'd supercharge it.

Ilikebmxbikes is spot on. I absolutely adored my Z3Ms and the Z4M, but always considered the engine the weakest link of the cars by far. Yes they were peppy, but compared to my other cars at the time (single turbo Supra or my Z06), they were quite slow. I've pretty much given up on the newer ///M cars now, as they are waaaaay overpriced (especially the 1M which is commanding absolutely ridiculous sums). I did some research on the 135i with the N54, saw it's tuning potential, and have loved the car ever since. The torque the motor generates is fantastic, and while the overall "feel" of the car isn't as nice as say my Z4M, for everyday casual driving it's perfect. It has no power seats, no I(shit)drive, and is just a plain Jane car. I'm thinking of selling it now, but will only be replacing it with a *drum roll please* S54 powered Z4M. The Z4M is just my favorite car of all time, and I never should have sold the one I had. Big, big mistake.

*EDIT* Wow, I'm glad I posted in this article. Stig made a mention about the S54 bearings being a "wear" issue, and that blew my mind. I thought the problem from the 01-02 cars was corrected, but apparently not. A quick google search brought back some results showing Z4Ms spinning the bearings at 60k miles. WTH!! Absolutely incredible, another horrible job by BMW. It appears most people in the know are replacing their bearings every 50k miles now. I'll definitely keep this in mind when negotiating for another Z4M, considering they're all getting up there in the mileage department now. Thanks!

Last edited by NickyC; 06-16-2014 at 01:16 PM..
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      06-16-2014, 01:54 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
*EDIT* Wow, I'm glad I posted in this article. Stig made a mention about the S54 bearings being a "wear" issue, and that blew my mind. I thought the problem from the 01-02 cars was corrected, but apparently not. A quick google search brought back some results showing Z4Ms spinning the bearings at 60k miles. WTH!! Absolutely incredible, another horrible job by BMW. It appears most people in the know are replacing their bearings every 50k miles now. I'll definitely keep this in mind when negotiating for another Z4M, considering they're all getting up there in the mileage department now. Thanks!
50k replacements would just be silly unless the car only sees the track. Street cars that are driven hard and spend 4%-5% of their time on the track seem to need them every 100k or so, assuming stock parts. At this point, Bimmerworld sells an upgrade kit with treated rod bearings with ARP hardware for $575, that should lock down cars for considerably longer than the stock units.

Engines, and especially high output engines, have wear items. In the long run, $575 for a set of rod bearings that are easily diagnosed ahead of time via oil analysis(which is cheap) is pretty minor. You sound like an ideal candidate for leased cars or a Toyota Corolla if that is an issue.
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      06-16-2014, 02:31 PM   #76
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I cant get over how huge the 4series is.
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      06-16-2014, 04:00 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
You sound like an ideal candidate for leased cars or a Toyota Corolla if that is an issue.
Do comments like this really help anything?
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      06-16-2014, 04:08 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
50k replacements would just be silly unless the car only sees the track. Street cars that are driven hard and spend 4%-5% of their time on the track seem to need them every 100k or so, assuming stock parts. At this point, Bimmerworld sells an upgrade kit with treated rod bearings with ARP hardware for $575, that should lock down cars for considerably longer than the stock units.

Engines, and especially high output engines, have wear items. In the long run, $575 for a set of rod bearings that are easily diagnosed ahead of time via oil analysis(which is cheap) is pretty minor. You sound like an ideal candidate for leased cars or a Toyota Corolla if that is an issue.
I agree that rod bearings are wear items but would not wait to replace rodbearings until 100k. And rod bearing replacement labor is the main cost, not the parts.

Why is NickyC an ideal candidate for a leased car or Toyotoa Corolla? He has been a long time BMW owner and a member of this forum. Lets not confuse disagreements with disrespect.
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      06-16-2014, 04:11 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes View Post
He probably enjoyed the S54 cars while he had them but then broadened his enjoyment when he got his 135i. Nothing wrong with his opinion. He personally enjoys the 135i more than the S54. No one can debate with that.

S54 is a high strung motor and does have rodbearing and a few other issues.
Fair. I would just be sceptical of buying a car with an engine design that's blown up on me twice.

Hell as much fun as it is I'll never buy another N54 car and ive only ever had the one (pun partially intended)
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      06-17-2014, 06:28 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Do comments like this really help anything?
It isn't an insult. Merely an observation that if maintenance free ownership is something you desire, I can't think of any performance car that fits the bill(maybe the S2k?).

Whatever we think the interval is, oil analysis which a responsible owner should be doing either way, will tell you when it is needed.
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      06-17-2014, 09:19 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
It isn't an insult. Merely an observation that if maintenance free ownership is something you desire, I can't think of any performance car that fits the bill(maybe the S2k?).

Whatever we think the interval is, oil analysis which a responsible owner should be doing either way, will tell you when it is needed.
What part of my post ever suggested I was interested in a maintenance free car? I simply stated that the premature bearing wear would be a good negotiation point with a potential seller of a Z4M who has a higher mileage car. If I can document to the seller that the bearings wear prematurely in the car, and that the bill to fix is between $1500-2000, I can use that to make the seller feel I'm giving an informed offer for the car and not some dreaded "low ball" offer. After researching the topic on the internet, which I'm thankful for you and others pointing to me about the bearings, I would certainly have this maintenance done if I were to buy another Z4M. Coincidentally, there's an 06 Z4M in town with 55k miles at a local dealer, and I will certainly use this bearing information in potential negotiation with the dealer. I would ask him either for the price of the maintenance to be deducted from the car, or to have the work done prior to my purchase. All they can say is "no" and I move on to another car. Thanks.
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      06-17-2014, 09:35 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
It isn't an insult. Merely an observation that if maintenance free ownership is something you desire, I can't think of any performance car that fits the bill(maybe the S2k?).

Whatever we think the interval is, oil analysis which a responsible owner should be doing either way, will tell you when it is needed.
I don't think ROD bearings are generally considered maintenance items on most performance cars. While any engine pushed really hard will wear them the S54 has a history of issues with them which cannot be denied. As far as sending a fellow BMW fan to Toyota because he is weary of that fact, that comes off as an insult.
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      06-17-2014, 09:44 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FactorX81 View Post
I don't think ROD bearings are generally considered maintenance items on most performance cars. While any engine pushed really hard will wear them the S54 has a history of issues with them which cannot be denied. As far as sending a fellow BMW fan to Toyota because he is weary of that fact, that comes off as an insult.
Can you name me an engine that revs to a high rpm and doesn't need them replaced at ~100k intervals? Because the S54/S65/S85/Metzger/F20C and so on all do.

S54 had an issue with the parts not being built to design. Then BMW was a complete ass about it to the customers. Lumping all S54s into the same boat is simply idiotic though.
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      06-17-2014, 10:08 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
Can you name me an engine that revs to a high rpm and doesn't need them replaced at ~100k intervals? Because the S54/S65/S85/Metzger/F20C and so on all do.

S54 had an issue with the parts not being built to design. Then BMW was a complete ass about it to the customers. Lumping all S54s into the same boat is simply idiotic though.
Honda B series K series and even the F series all do much better in comparison and while no one is saying all S54 are bad it is no more idiotic than saying go buy a corolla. Furthermore lets name all the cars where the manufacturer recommends the rod bearings be replaced at an interval of less than 100k that also cost less than 100k.
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      06-17-2014, 10:41 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FactorX81 View Post
Honda B series K series and even the F series all do much better in comparison and while no one is saying all S54 are bad it is no more idiotic than saying go buy a corolla. Furthermore lets name all the cars where the manufacturer recommends the rod bearings be replaced at an interval of less than 100k that also cost less than 100k.
I already mentioned the F series(F20C). Once again, unless your S54 lives at the track, sub 100k rod bearings is just a waste of money. The averages simply do not support that. Everything I listed in the previous post with the exception of the Metzger GT3 engine(which generally requires 50k rod bearings or less) costs $100k or less.
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      06-17-2014, 11:00 AM   #86
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Back to the topic:

My 2-series "envy" has been a bit of a roller coaster. When I first heard about the 2-series I definitely felt a twinge of buyer's remorse, but then upon seeing the cars, it was mostly allayed. I have no desire to drive a car with EPS as it is now, and I hate the front and rear end look. After seeing a few more in the flesh, I started to feel some envy again, especially with the M2 announcement - but every day I spend with my car makes me remember why I bought it, and why I have no desire for a 2-series. Its an old chassis, sure - but its the best new "old" BMW you can get in my opinion. Definitely a future classic, unlike the new 2-series, which looks a little too japanese for my taste. I don't really like the interior either, and the lack of choice in terms of forgoing the nav/iDrive.

The only car I'd trade for at this point I think would be a 1M.
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      06-17-2014, 11:23 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
Can you name me an engine that revs to a high rpm and doesn't need them replaced at ~100k intervals? Because the S54/S65/S85/Metzger/F20C and so on all do.
.

Like an S2000 or Type R? Rev them to 9k all day every day.
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      06-17-2014, 11:31 AM   #88
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This article makes sense to me on S54 rod bearings:

http://www.langracing.com/finding-a-...aring-failure/

The basic message is BMW made the bearing surface too small in the engines and that leads to failure of the lubricating surface leading to bearing wear. New bearings every 50K miles band-aids the situation but to really correct it you need to increase the bearing size. That means a regrind to the crankshaft and new rods.

I expect a higher performance vehicle to need tires more often, brakes more often, use more gas, etc.. I don't think they should require rod bearings (or water pumps) more often. When they do, I think there is a design issue. I do not expect to every own a Ferrari or many other brands. But I don't really want to drive a Toyota either. I really liked my Fiat 124 Spyder but got rid of it quicker than any other car I've owned because it didn't stay running enough of the time. I want both fun and reliability. So far my 128i has given me both.
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