Spec clutch or master clutch on 1M

[xavierbest]

Originally Posted by lightning

+1 to sach performance.


Great write up xavier! i'm on the Sach Performance too.. its great, a little on the heavier side but still manageable for daily use (btw i daily drive my 1M and get stuck in traffic every single morning)

However, just some question for xavier, does your car vibrate a little when moving off first gear from a stand still position? cause mine does so i'm not sure if it's normal (or not).

Also, during the installation process my mechanic was nice enough to explain to me that the stock clutch uses the SAC (Self Adjusting Clutch) design, which explains why our clutches start slipping and burn out so quickly. So the Sach performance clutch is more "less advanced" in design and technology, but better.

No my car is not vibrating at all in normal condition
Only at home, where the garage is at a lower level than the street, when starting from stand still to rear
But for information, all my bmw have done that because i'm just using my cluth to move and no gas, this is because i can't arrive to fast on the street if i don't want to loose my trunk in a farm tractor ;-)

And effectively the SAC system is giving more problem than solution on high power BMW engine. That's right.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by xavierbest

You're right it's a lot of torque but effectively it was BEFORE any tune.
We were very surprised, but it was a great news!
I have to mention that i'm driving everyday with a 320D and a 330D. I everytime use all the torque in the low range and shift quickly.
I've learn my 1M to react like this in sport mode. Pushing very hard from the low low revs to the middle. Like to hear this "PSSSHTT" when gearing up while the turbos are whistling.
So on the DYNO test, before the tune, i've got 600Nm but only 336 HP.
You have to know that the ECU of the 1M is a learning module (like the M3 E9x). This one study the way you react and then adapt the curves to your driving profile.
So, always using the car in the range 1300/3000 but with the throttle full open lead me to this great 600Nm. If you drive in high rev, full open, your car will deliver more HP but less torque.
The ECU adapt this by always checking you driving profile but this mean that you can change it, it's not locked. Take the car, drive it like hell, fast and furious and she will be agressive in high revs. Drive it like a truck, with all the torque as you can and the ECU will give you all he can too, giving the preference to push hard in place of reving faster.

That's really a big deal on the 1M.
Most of the M3 drived everyday in city does not deliver their 420 HP, only because the engine never revs to the limits so the ECU think "why giving him the power and purge the tank? Just 380 Hp is ok for this guy huh"

So what you have seen about all the other cars, 550-560 nm, is not "technical standard" value but more a "driving profile standard" value.
All our cars will deliver the power/torque the driver need, ask. Not the power your brain think you have...

I am sorry but we have wittnessed maybe 20, 30 1M dynos here in this Forum alone since more than 2 years never came across such a high number for stock 1M. However, dynos can lie and I bet it was the dyno or the way it was calibrated gave you this (I believe) misleading result.

First of all, if everything was right with that dyno you shouldn't be seeing just 336 hp while producing 600 nm which is 442.5 lb.ft of torque. That is what tuned 1Ms like Stage 1 Evolve or GIAC had to offer, while at the same time producing significantly more hp, around 400 hp.

Those stock numbers of 336 hp and 600 nm (442 lb.ft) are wildly different than anything else I have seen or heard.

ECU's learning and adapting abilities will not make into a dyno run since there is only one correct way to "drive" the car while it is on the dyno and peak hp/tq would not be altered from factory numbers.

The car would give you what you want, to a point, while driving the way you drive but not on a properly executed dyno, it is not a telephatic unit that remembers your driving habit and delivers your prefered output. I also want my car to produce more hp but even if I drive it like a bat out of hell it is not going to become a 400 hp engine with lower torque, I will just go to service more often.

I still feel like your stock run was not executed correctly, something was off.

[RimasRS]

Originally Posted by lightning

+1 to sach performance.


Great write up xavier! i'm on the Sach Performance too.. its great, a little on the heavier side but still manageable for daily use (btw i daily drive my 1M and get stuck in traffic every single morning)

However, just some question for xavier, does your car vibrate a little when moving off first gear from a stand still position? cause mine does so i'm not sure if it's normal (or not).

Also, during the installation process my mechanic was nice enough to explain to me that the stock clutch uses the SAC (Self Adjusting Clutch) design, which explains why our clutches start slipping and burn out so quickly. So the Sach performance clutch is more "less advanced" in design and technology, but better.

vibration must be because of our stupid DMF-flywheel which are known to fail. The problem with single mass that they chatter so lack of comfort with SMF or failing expensive DMF. I cant decide on that...

[lightning]

Originally Posted by xavierbest

No my car is not vibrating at all in normal condition
Only at home, where the garage is at a lower level than the street, when starting from stand still to rear
But for information, all my bmw have done that because i'm just using my cluth to move and no gas, this is because i can't arrive to fast on the street if i don't want to loose my trunk in a farm tractor ;-)

And effectively the SAC system is giving more problem than solution on high power BMW engine. That's right.

yeap! i understand that. when i get the biting point and slowly let the clutch pedal go, the car vibrates a little before engaging.

[lightning]

Originally Posted by RimasRS

vibration must be because of our stupid DMF-flywheel which are known to fail. The problem with single mass that they chatter so lack of comfort with SMF or failing expensive DMF. I cant decide on that...

I don't think it's a DMF failure, because we checked the DMF and found that it was in a great shape before installing the Sach Performance clutch. It might be not properly run in yet. i'm not sure actually.

[xavierbest]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

I am sorry but we have wittnessed maybe 20, 30 1M dynos here in this Forum alone since more than 2 years never came across such a high number for stock 1M. However, dynos can lie and I bet it was the dyno or the way it was calibrated gave you this (I believe) misleading result.

First of all, if everything was right with that dyno you shouldn't be seeing just 336 hp while producing 600 nm which is 442.5 lb.ft of torque. That is what tuned 1Ms like Stage 1 Evolve or GIAC had to offer, while at the same time producing significantly more hp, around 400 hp.

Those stock numbers of 336 hp and 600 nm (442 lb.ft) are wildly different than anything else I have seen or heard.

ECU's learning and adapting abilities will not make into a dyno run since there is only one correct way to "drive" the car while it is on the dyno and peak hp/tq would not be altered from factory numbers.

The car would give you what you want, to a point, while driving the way you drive but not on a properly executed dyno, it is not a telephatic unit that remembers your driving habit and delivers your prefered output. I also want my car to produce more hp but even if I drive it like a bat out of hell it is not going to become a 400 hp engine with lower torque, I will just go to service more often.

I still feel like your stock run was not executed correctly, something was off.

If you say it... Don't want to go further in this discussion... (whitout any agressivity or negative mind hé, we're not here for this). I feel very confident in what the dyno have show. It was the first frist dyno. At the end we have reached 382Hp and 640Nm. I'm happy with the result in term of driving pleasure, numbers don't really matter to me. I'm only focussed on the fun side this car can give to me.

[RimasRS]

Try to check like on this vid

if you hearing same chatter on when shutting down the engine be prepared to replace clutch and DMF again...

Originally Posted by lightning

I don't think it's a DMF failure, because we checked the DMF and found that it was in a great shape before installing the Sach Performance clutch. It might be not properly run in yet. i'm not sure actually.

[xavierbest]

Update now:

Hello,

My car was 5000 Km when begin having clutch slipping.
We replace the clutch with Sachs performance clutch and pressure plate.
This kit lived for 10000 km then begin to slip again.
My car is only 382 hp but deliver >630nm of torque which is a lot.
After consulting expert into tuning bmw car for rallying they say me
"once a clutch have slipped just one big taim the heat generated will have curved the flywheel even if you can't notice it. After this the friction is never optimal again."
So, when upgrading/replacing a clutch (& pressure plate) you need to replace the flywheel too !
It cost me 2900 euros to do the stuff.
ECU remapped so no warranty but by the way the car is 3 years old so warranty is obsolete AND clutch are most of the time not taken under warranty.
Now this is the joint before the differential who is failing, loosing oil and it smell like hell when riding. Giving me clutch problem idea but no, this is not this new one.

Mods are:
- CDV removed
- ECU remap to 382hp/>630nm torque
- Air Filter
- Goodridge brake line
- Pagid Yellow brake pads
- Sachs Performance Organic Clutch disk + High pressure plate (rated to 600nm)

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by xavierbest

Update now:

Mods are:
. . . . .
- ECU remap to 382hp/>630nm torque
. . . . . .
- Sachs Performance Organic Clutch disk + High pressure plate (rated to 600nm)

I think you have identified your problem.

Someone somewhere makes a clutch that will hold your torque. I would go well over your power output on the clutch rating so that the next one will last.