Is anyone running the OTS MHD Stage 2 flash on a DCT N55 135i?

[sbrach]

Would you mind posting a log so I can compare?

[The Wind Breezes]

I'm running it. Which parameters do you want? Post your log so we can see.

[sbrach]

2011 DCT 135i 96,000 miles, Catless DP, Chargepipe, BMS drop in, Magnaflow exhaust, 91 octane (Az)

Stage 0
http://datazap.me/u/sbrach/log-15050...=0&data=4-5-14

Stage 2
http://datazap.me/u/sbrach/log-15053...=1&data=4-5-14

Found no boost leaks, removed and inspected diverter valve, tested wastegate actuator with mityvac, adjusted wastegate to make sure it is closing. No difference. Stage 2 is significantly off target over 4k RPM and actually ends up making less HP and torque than stage 0. I need to get a new boost solenoid to rule that out but other than that I don't know what could be wrong with the car. I notice that the WGDC after PID is only in the 40-50% range even with boost way below target so I wanted to see someone else's log running the same flash to see where the WGDC is at.


Stage 0 is blue, Stage 2 is red. Same road same day back to back.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7O...ew?usp=sharing

[velociti]

I had a bad boost solenoid and my log didn't look like that because I was never able to hit over 7psi, but maybe yours is just starting to go.

That said, it looks like you're getting corrections on every cylinder throughout your pull, which resulted in your throttle not hitting 100% until 5k or so. Your Stage 0 pull also shows corrections on every cylinder. It's definitely time to replace your spark plugs. Stock Bosch, or NGK 95770s, gap them down to .022 and go from there. I'm betting that once you clean up those corrections your car won't pull timing and you'll have no problem holding boost. I'd only replace the boost solenoid if the problem persists after you do your plugs. Oh, and if you haven't replaced them already, you might as well replace your ignition coils (Delphi GN10571) while you're at it since you'll be taking them out anyway.

[sbrach]

Yeah, the plugs and coils are already on the list. Fuel is terrible here in AZ too so I might try a gallon or two of E to raise the octane as well.

So you think WGDC is so low even when severely under boost target because the car is reducing power due to knock?

Thanks

[velociti]

The DME is pulling timing to avoid knock, yes. Honestly, don't bother with the E85 until you do your plugs and coils. Your motor will continue to run poorly until you handle that, increased octane or no. I think you'll find that your car will run much better once you replace everything. Even on the 91 octane map your car should rip.

Originally Posted by sbrach

Yeah, the plugs and coils are already on the list. Fuel is terrible here in AZ too so I might try a gallon or two of E to raise the octane as well.

So you think WGDC is so low even when severely under boost target because the car is reducing power due to knock?

Thanks

[sbrach]

Stage 2 with NGK 95770s gapped to .022

Pretty much the same results.
http://datazap.me/u/sbrach/log-1505586218?log=0&data=14

[WhatsADSM]

Originally Posted by sbrach

Stage 2 with NGK 95770s gapped to .022

Pretty much the same results.
http://datazap.me/u/sbrach/log-1505586218?log=0&data=14

Those timing corrections aren't very bad at all. Kind of weird it doesn't go for more WGDC tho.

If you want I can send you a tune I made that opens up a lot more WGDC for me. Curious if it's just in the OTS tune.

[sbrach]

That's why I wanted to see a log from someone running the stage 2 DCT OTS flash. Not saying anything is wrong with the tune but I wanted to see if other people are hitting boost target with the same WGDC. Maybe in cooler ambient conditions the WGDC I'm hitting would be plenty but at 105F it isn't. I'll continue troubleshooting the car / performing maint but I'd like to see a log since I will be out of town until Thursday and won't be able to try anything else mechanical/electrical until then. Next up is new coils and a vac gauge on a tee between the boost solenoid and the WG actuator.

[WhatsADSM]

Originally Posted by sbrach

That's why I wanted to see a log from someone running the stage 2 DCT OTS flash. Not saying anything is wrong with the tune but I wanted to see if other people are hitting boost target with the same WGDC. Maybe in cooler ambient conditions the WGDC I'm hitting would be plenty but at 105F it isn't. I'll continue troubleshooting the car / performing maint but I'd like to see a log since I will be out of town until Thursday and won't be able to try anything else mechanical/electrical until then. Next up is new coils and a vac gauge on a tee between the boost solenoid and the WG actuator.

Are the coils old or something ?

[The Wind Breezes]

Your car is pulling a lot of timing in ALL cylinders both stock and tuned. The car thinks it's knocking so it's reducing requested load. That's why you're making crap power.

[WhatsADSM]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

Your car is pulling a lot of timing in ALL cylinders both stock and tuned. The car thinks it's knocking so it's reducing requested load. That's why you're making crap power.

I disagree. The last log he posted shows a little bit of correction (upto -3) on all cylinders only on boost onset and it quickly returns to zero by 5000 rpm. The requested load stays the same throughout that period, as it should since it's only a minor correction. Requested load doesn't drop until later in the pull when there are no corrections.

What is apparent from the log though is that it just doesn't attempt to run much WGDC, hence it doesn't hit the load/boost targets, especially at high RPM. Honestly it looks like a tune thing to me.

O.P.
Based on the logs you posted I'm having a hard time believing the stage 2 tune makes less power/torque than stage 0. It's clear from the logs that the stage 2 tune is running more boost everywhere and also shows more air flow (MAF) than the stage 0. That's all a tell tale that more power/torque is being generated. For example in your stage 0 log at 6000 rpm it's making about 10 and a half psi and generating about 245 g/s. In that last stage 2 log you posted at 6000 its roughly 11 and a half psi and generating 260 g/s.

Remember all these tuners target some crazy high boost/load targets in most of their tunes that the stock turbo doesn't have a prayer of hitting. With that said according to the log there is more available WGDC though so it's likely in the WGDC tuning of the map.

[sbrach]

Yeah, I'm wondering if there is a limit on WGDC that is high enough to get closer to boost target in better weather / with better fuel than we have in AZ. I'd really like to see a log of a 3rd gear pull from someone running the stage 2 DCT OTS flash. I'm considering just trying the stage 2+ to see what results I get. I just don't get why WGDC is so low when boost is so far below target.

Did you see the Virtual Dyno screenshot I posted? Those were back to back runs on the same road on the same day and all I did was switch flash files in between. The Stage 0 and stage 2 are very close.

[WhatsADSM]

Originally Posted by sbrach

Yeah, I'm wondering if there is a limit on WGDC that is high enough to get closer to boost target in better weather / with better fuel than we have in AZ. I'd really like to see a log of a 3rd gear pull from someone running the stage 2 DCT OTS flash. I'm considering just trying the stage 2+ to see what results I get. I just don't get why WGDC is so low when boost is so far below target.

Did you see the Virtual Dyno screenshot I posted? Those were back to back runs on the same road on the same day and all I did was switch flash files in between. The Stage 0 and stage 2 are very close.

Depending on how the WGDC maps are configured there most certainly is a limit on how much duty cycle it will command... Even if it is significantly below target the WGDC will not increase unbounded. Again depends on how the WGDC is configured in the tune, but in general this seems to be a pretty standard way of tuning around here. Set targets that are way higher than it will ever hit and then tune the actual desired load/boost based on WGDC tables. Part of the reason this is done is that if the requested load/boost is always so far away from actually then you can avoid throttle closures all together.

FWIW, I don't actually agree with the philosophy much but thats another story.

As for the log, go look on E90post.com. there are far more people using MHD there than on the 1 series boards, simply by the virtue of number of 3 series cars out there versus 1 series.

Finally... I wouldn't put a ton of faith in a virtual Dyno log. Its not a bad tool but you have to use it properly. One thing I see right off the bat is that you are running in 2nd gear. Run in 3rd gear at a minimum, 4th is ever better. In general though I trust the DME data more than a V-dyno, the dme clearly reports more air (I.e. more power) in the case of the stage 2 log.

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by WhatsADSM

I disagree. The last log he posted shows a little bit of correction (upto -3)

No, his stock log shows up to -6 and the tuned log shows up to -7. That's not normal and I wouldn't be surprised if the ECU is pulling power in response. Then with the pulled power there's no need to pull timing. It's funny how the taper off timing pull follows the taper down in power. Note, you don't want to just keep timing pulled because it will increase your EGT and cause a bad day for all. Much better to just reduce load. So that's what it looks like is going on.

[BimmerAg]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

No, his stock log shows up to -6 and the tuned log shows up to -7. That's not normal and I wouldn't be surprised if the ECU is pulling power in response. Then with the pulled power there's no need to pull timing. It's funny how the taper off timing pull follows the taper down in power. Note, you don't want to just keep timing pulled because it will increase your EGT and cause a bad day for all. Much better to just reduce load. So that's what it looks like is going on.

More recent log after he changed plugs only shows corrections of -3, albeit still on all cylinders...
http://datazap.me/u/sbrach/log-1505586218?log=0&data=14

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by BimmerAg

More recent log after he changed plugs only shows corrections of -3, albeit still on all cylinders...
http://datazap.me/u/sbrach/log-1505586218?log=0&data=14

Oh I see. The all cylinders part is weird. We can't blame carbon buildup can we??

[WhatsADSM]

Yea it's only -3 now. It is on all cylinders and only on initial boost onset and a quick decay back to zero. In general most of us agree (bmw included if you have looked much at their tune) that corrections up to -3 are very normal and nothing much to worry about.

[houtan]

What is your cyl 1 timing advance at for your map 0 log? I don't see it in the log.

Regardless, your most recent log looks completely normal. What are your concerns with the log? You aren't going to get max WGDC on the stage 2 91acn map. but that should be obvious as to why. the map is designed per the mods on the car and the fuel being used. If you want more boost, you need to go to the next map. If you want max performance, you need to go to e30.

IMO, if you are looking for the most out of the stock turbo, get the supporting mods and get an etune.

Here is an old log when I was stock turbo on 91 octane, tune by Wedge Performance: https://datazap.me/u/houtan/wedge-91...0&data=3-15-18

Here is what PPK looked like, same day: https://datazap.me/u/houtan/ppk-dyno...0&data=3-15-18

Keep in mind, the power from 5,500 to redline may feel similar, or even better on the stock tune. You can see in the ppk log, boost is lower as you go into the upper revs, but timing is greater, and hits 14 degrees by redline. On the stock turbo, the car is fastest shifting around 5,500ish rpms when tuned. Boost is still around 15psi at 5,500, and when you grab the next gear, the turbo can make a good amount of boost still.

As an example, here is a realllllly old log from a half mile event. This is on E50, but it illustrates the point about shifting around 5,500 to keep the turbo in max boost. I was around 143MPH in the half mile that day, with a best of 144. https://datazap.me/u/houtan/no-fly-z...=0&data=1-4-18

[utkunoa]

how you can log timing corrections ?

in my car ( 2012 135i n55 ) cant see timing corrections options, just timing.

[sbrach]

Originally Posted by utkunoa

how you can log timing corrections ?

in my car ( 2012 135i n55 ) cant see timing corrections options, just timing.

The timing correction channels are options when you setup the logger.

Replaced the coils last night with new delphis in addition to the NGK 95770s gapped at .022 last weekend.

Got this log at about 8;30am this morning;
https://datazap.me/u/sbrach/log-1506...=0&data=4-5-14

Then this one around noon after mixing 3 gallons of E54 and the rest of the tank 91acn.

https://datazap.me/u/sbrach/log-1506...=0&data=4-5-14

Ambient is around 20 degrees (F) warmer in the second log.

[lisabosken]

Originally Posted by sbrach

The timing correction channels are options when you setup the logger.

Replaced the coils last night with new delphis in addition to the NGK 95770s gapped at .022 last weekend.

Got this log at about 8;30am this morning;
https://datazap.me/u/sbrach/log-1506...=0&data=4-5-14

Then this one around noon after mixing 3 gallons of E54 and the rest of the tank 91acn.

https://datazap.me/u/sbrach/log-1506...=0&data=4-5-14

Ambient is around 20 degrees (F) warmer in the second log.

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, did you ever get a resolution for the issue? the big gab in boost target and actual boost in relation to WGDC? Thanks!