BMW Car Article - 1M vs tuned 135i

[Mahlzeit]

Harold's 135 has an aftermarket LSD. And coilovers, and a bunch of M3 suspension components. He essentially built a 1M before the factory did. Don't know off the top of my head what motor or brake mods he has....

Duplicating his 135 takes more than money; it takes trial/error/intelligence,... and patience. Certainly a fun project leading to a lot of sunk cost and near zero resale value considering the retail cost of the parts and labor it cost to build. Perfect though if you treat it as a rolling R&D project with the purpose of developing mod packages and parts.

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by Plaz

The differential is where trying to turn a 135i into a 1M gets kind of sticky, I'd imagine.

The 135i's open diff is still basically one wheel drive, no matter how tweaked the engine is or how wide the tires are... until that's brought up to par with the 1M, it's kind of hard to really take the comparison seriously, IMHO.

I got the cheapest LSD I've seen anywhere, and that was $1800 without installation.

[TX78666]

Originally Posted by Plaz

The differential is where trying to turn a 135i into a 1M gets kind of sticky, I'd imagine.

The 135i's open diff is still basically one wheel drive, no matter how tweaked the engine is or how wide the tires are... until that's brought up to par with the 1M, it's kind of hard to really take the comparison seriously, IMHO.

Going to an LSD is a fairly common mod.

That brings up another interesting point, though. Depending on how it is set up, an LSD can exacerbate understeer. So, would a carefully selected aftermarket LSD perform better than the stock 1M LSD? Given the understeer complaints about the 135 and the 1M, I'll be curious to see what the article says in that regard.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by TX78666

Going to an LSD is a fairly common mod.

That brings up another interesting point, though. Depending on how it is set up, an LSD can exacerbate understeer. So, would a carefully selected aftermarket LSD perform better than the stock 1M LSD? Given the understeer complaints about the 135 and the 1M, I'll be curious to see what the article says in that regard.

The writer of the article wasn't well informed. He indicated the Quaife, the LSD I have on the the 135i locks both ways, in fact in only locks under load or one way.

[TX78666]

I was actually more curious about the diff on the 1M. I assume that is a 1-way as well, but how is it set up? Could the diff be contributing to understeer, under load, as described in the notorious MT article?

*WARNING* I am one post from being in over my head on this topic. In fact, I may already be. I just deleted "ramps" from my question, because I just barely know what I am saying at this point. :-)

[nachob]

Originally Posted by TX78666

I was actually more curious about the diff on the 1M. I assume that is a 1-way as well, but how is it set up? Could the diff be contributing to understeer, under load, as described in the notorious MT article?

*WARNING* I am one post from being in over my head on this topic. In fact, I may already be. I just deleted "ramps" from my question, because I just barely know what I am saying at this point. :-)

I think the term LSD (Limited Slip Differential) is being used too broadly. The differential in the 1M and M3 is a FULL-LOCK differential. In othe words, it can lock both wheels 100%, Limited slip diffs only lock a limited amount.

Since you guys are getting really technical with 1 way and 2 way locking, I thought I would clarify that.

[TX78666]

Originally Posted by nachob

I think the term LSD (Limited Slip Differential) is being used too broadly. The differential in the 1M and M3 is a FULL-LOCK differential. In othe words, it can lock both wheels 100%, Limited slip diffs only lock a limited amount.

Since you guys are getting really technical with 1 way and 2 way locking, I thought I would clarify that.

Even more so, then, no? If both wheels are locked 100%, that would certainly seem to be a potential culprit for understeer under load. If so, then an aftermarket diff might perform better.

Two things kept me from putting an LSD in my e46: 1) an open diff with the gearing I wanted was $600, and b) choices like 40% - 2 Clutch Pack, 40% - 60% - 3 Clutch Pack, 30/90 Variable Ramp-3 Clutch, 30/70 Variable Ramp-3 Clutch, and 1.5 way Kaaz LSD Carrier, were making my head spin.

I did enough research to figure out that the wrong setup can yield unexpected (and potentially unpleasant) results, and so I moved on, saving my $3,000 for when I fully understood what I was buying.

So, I don't want to and turn this into my own private lesson about diffs, but I am curious about whether the diff in the 1M might be less than ideal.

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by TX78666

Given the understeer complaints about the 135 and the 1M, I'll be curious to see what the article says in that regard.

When someone says understeer, I assume they're talking about the front wheels skidding at the cornering limit on a track. Well, who isn't going to add camber plates or wheels with less stagger to cure that? So I don't take all this understeer talk too seriously.

I'm not sure what kind of diff the 1M has. Based on this post, I thought the M3 had a GKN viscous differential, which would not cause understeer.

Anyway, I'm also one post from being over my head. If anyone is interested, the post I linked and some others in that thread are really great on LSD types.

[TX78666]

Yeah, I don't know. Randy Pobst was complaining about mid-corner understeer. That sounds like what you could get, if you were getting on the throttle and the rear wheels were both spinning at the same speed, pushing the car in a straight line, while the fronts tried to turn.

I'll be curious to read the article and see how they thought each car handled.

[TX78666]

Actually, someone else raised the issue of LSDs. I merely took an interest, as it is one very big difference between the two cars and I wonder how it plays out in the matchup between the M and the modded 135.

Since nobody has read the article, there isn't much to talk about, other than how pretty the pictures are, and what info the article *might* turn up.



Please, get us back on course, and tell us what the article said, so that we can discuss it properly.

[GaryS]

The guy who was on the cover of one of the BMW magazines last month with his 1M told me that it has a better steering box and better gearbox, clutch and flywheel than the 135i. Those are pretty expensive parts too.

Dear God I hope I'm not off-topic.

[TX78666]

Originally Posted by GaryS

The guy who was on the cover of one of the BMW magazines last month with his 1M told me that it has a better steering box and better gearbox, clutch and flywheel than the 135i. Those are pretty expensive parts too.

Hmmm. Could be. I'd have to go look all that up, to see how different they are.

Dear God I hope I'm not off-topic.

[david.orr]

Deja vu ...... modded 335i v M3.... modded 335i v modded M3.

People should realise that all these comparisons boil down to a single bottom line, i.e. who's willing to put more money into his car than the next. With all the monies spent on the right mods, a 125i may even outperform a 1M. Sometimes I don't understand such threads.

[pixelblue]

Can't you install 1M rear quarter panels on the 135? Why would you need to have custom rear panels made?

[JAX S50]

Did someone say Alpina B12 5.7 ? Ah "THE ONE" that got away

[adrean8j]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

Can't you install 1M rear quarter panels on the 135? Why would you need to have custom rear panels made?

I think the rear quarter panel is not set up like the front as in being two pieces....it covers the rear quarter panels up to the roof line IIRC. Dunno if it can be done and haven't done any research on it yet.

Just for everyone else yelling about the "cost" of modding a 135i....many of us have been modding our 135i's over the last 3 years because BMW was telling us the little white lie about there NEVER being a M version of the 1 series...I am sure if most of us had the option from day 1 in '08 to get a 1M most of us would have done it. That being said...I think that with an existing moderately modded 135i with suspension work, LSD, and a tune...that the owner would be slightly underwhelmed by the current 1M.....seriously people it is not that big of a jump....Now for a new owner or the owner of a car that hasn't been modified extensively it is a different story altogether

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

Can't you install 1M rear quarter panels on the 135? Why would you need to have custom rear panels made?

Oh, I guess you're right.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by adrean8j

I think the rear quarter panel is not set up like the front as in being two pieces....it covers the rear quarter panels up to the roof line IIRC. Dunno if it can be done and haven't done any research on it yet.

Just for everyone else yelling about the "cost" of modding a 135i....many of us have been modding our 135i's over the last 3 years because BMW was telling us the little white lie about there NEVER being a M version of the 1 series...I am sure if most of us had the option from day 1 in '08 to get a 1M most of us would have done it. That being said...I think that with an existing moderately modded 135i with suspension work, LSD, and a tune...that the owner would be slightly underwhelmed by the current 1M.....seriously people it is not the big of a jump....Now for a new owner or the owner of a car that hasn't been modified extensively it is a different story altogether

[HP Autosport]

Article scanned for poster.

The actual file is way too big to post here, sorry guys. This issue should be out at the magazine stands soon.