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[looking]

I was thinking about going with a squared set. Who's done this and what are your thoughts?

I've read that a squared set up will make the car more neutral, is this true?

What sizes have you gone with and what tires?

Thanks guys

[zamm3k]

Don't have a square setup. I have friends with square setups on other cars. The advantages are plenty. Unfortunately, there's not really a good way of going square in our cars. U see, at the very least u should keep 245s in the back to keep traction. Which means you would have to go with 245s in the front, which is very hard a picky to do.
The advantages are evident. U can rotate tires first of all. Then. Yes the car has a more neutral feel and drive since ur getting pretty much equal amounts on rubbers on all four corners. In turn, you can take curves faster, etc etc etc.

Hope this helps!

[PC Valkyrie]

Originally Posted by zamm3k

Don't have a square setup. I have friends with square setups on other cars. The advantages are plenty. Unfortunately, there's not really a good way of going square in our cars. U see, at the very least u should keep 245s in the back to keep traction. Which means you would have to go with 245s in the front, which is very hard a picky to do.
The advantages are evident. U can rotate tires first of all. Then. Yes the car has a more neutral feel and drive since ur getting pretty much equal amounts on rubbers on all four corners. In turn, you can take curves faster, etc etc etc.

Hope this helps!

I gave this quite a bit of thought earlier this year. In the summer, my 135i is a part time track car, so I defintely wanted a "square" setup so I could rotate tires front to rear and even out tire wear during the track season (front tires always get abused more on a track).

My car is stock (engine/suspension) and I didn't want to roll fenders at all. I decided conservative 235/40 R17 Dunlop Z1 Direzza Star Spec tires on lightweight 17x8 ET 40mm OZ Ultraleggera rims (17.6 lbs each) on all 4 corners.

In my mind, this was the best of all worlds compromise.
1) Compared to stock, the track of the car is widened both front and back because of the lower offsets of the rims.
2) There is an increase in the front tire width comapred to stock, while there is a slight decrease in the rear tire width compared to stock. Overall, this should decrease the tendency to understeer (which is what the 135i tends to do when pushed to the limit). The Dunlop tires are also relatively wide with square shoulders, such that my 235 wide tire is already close in width to many 245 or 255 wide tires of different brands.
3) The OZ Ultraleggera's are much lighter than the stock 261M rims, which means significantly reduced unsprung weight.
4) A 235/40 R17 tire with 17x8 ET40 rims means absolutely no concerns for rubbing anywhere on all 4 corners (as confirmed by Tirerack). I suspect that it should be OK even if I decide in the future to add negative camber to the front.
5) There is plenty of selection of 235/40 R17 tires out there for reasonable prices (compared to 18" tires).

I've driven this setup on the track now twice this season, and I'm very pleased so far with the level of grip and pace I've achieved. Plus, I think it doesn't look too bad.....

Here is a pic:

[looking]

Thanks for the insight guys!

PC where did you get your tires and wheels, I'm from TO too and any help would be great. Do you have camber plates on your car or are you bone stock?

I was thinking about going 235/40/18, how'd you think that would perform? Did you notice the difference in unsprung wieght?

Sorry for all the questions, but PC you've got a set up I'm pretty interested in.

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by PC Valkyrie

I gave this quite a bit of thought earlier this year. In the summer, my 135i is a part time track car, so I defintely wanted a "square" setup so I could rotate tires front to rear and even out tire wear during the track season (front tires always get abused more on a track).

My car is stock (engine/suspension) and I didn't want to roll fenders at all. I decided conservative 235/40 R17 Dunlop Z1 Direzza Star Spec tires on lightweight 17x8 ET 40mm OZ Ultraleggera rims (17.6 lbs each) on all 4 corners.

In my mind, this was the best of all worlds compromise.
1) Compared to stock, the track of the car is widened both front and back because of the lower offsets of the rims.
2) There is an increase in the front tire width comapred to stock, while there is a slight decrease in the rear tire width compared to stock. Overall, this should decrease the tendency to understeer (which is what the 135i tends to do when pushed to the limit). The Dunlop tires are also relatively wide with square shoulders, such that my 235 wide tire is already close in width to many 245 or 255 wide tires of different brands.
3) The OZ Ultraleggera's are much lighter than the stock 261M rims, which means significantly reduced unsprung weight.
4) A 235/40 R17 tire with 17x8 ET40 rims means absolutely no concerns for rubbing anywhere on all 4 corners (as confirmed by Tirerack). I suspect that it should be OK even if I decide in the future to add negative camber to the front.
5) There is plenty of selection of 235/40 R17 tires out there for reasonable prices (compared to 18" tires).

I've driven this setup on the track now twice this season, and I'm very pleased so far with the level of grip and pace I've achieved. Plus, I think it doesn't look too bad.....

Here is a pic:

Nice set up... I agree, it looks very good as well...

[PC Valkyrie]

Originally Posted by looking

Thanks for the insight guys!

PC where did you get your tires and wheels, I'm from TO too and any help would be great. Do you have camber plates on your car or are you bone stock?

I was thinking about going 235/40/18, how'd you think that would perform? Did you notice the difference in unsprung wieght?

Sorry for all the questions, but PC you've got a set up I'm pretty interested in.

I bought the tires and rims together at TireRack. I tried looking at local source and they couldn't beat the TireRack price (even when taking into account the exchange rate). With the Cdn dollar so high right now, it is even more favourable to buy from TireRack. It's great, as they will mount and balance the rims and deliver straight to your home in a timely manner.

My car is bone stock (other than the rims/tires). No camber plates yet. On the track, my current setup is noticeably better than the stock runflats on the stock 18" M rims (I bought the M sport package). Noticeably higher grip levels and I'm pretty sure my cornering speeds are higher. I suspect that is mainly due to the tires, but I guess the lighter rims and wider track also help to a degree. In terms of acceleration, I think I can feel that the car feels more responsive, although that is really subjective and could all be in my head.

If you go for 18" rims, a 235/40R18 tires will mean an increase in overall diameter compared to stock, and I honestly don't know whether that will put you at risk of rubbing. The beauty of the 235/40 R17 setup is that the overall diameter is slighty lower than stock which is reassurance to me that it will fit even if I do add things like camber kit or different suspension in the future. As I said before, I didn't want any rolling of fenders now or in the future.

Of course, my goals were for performance and function, and I didn't place that much emphasis on cosmetics.

[looking]

Thanks PC, I've actually got the M package too. I've talked to Gill and he actually said that the 235/40/18 would not rub. I'm actually thinking about the exact rims as you and I'm only differing on the 18" rims and I'll probably go with Bridgestone RE-11.

I'm not sure if you could answer this but what would be the major difference between 17 and 18's - if rubbing isn't an issue?

[PC Valkyrie]

Originally Posted by looking

Thanks PC, I've actually got the M package too. I've talked to Gill and he actually said that the 235/40/18 would not rub. I'm actually thinking about the exact rims as you and I'm only differing on the 18" rims and I'll probably go with Bridgestone RE-11.

I'm not sure if you could answer this but what would be the major difference between 17 and 18's - if rubbing isn't an issue?

Lighter rims, which means less unsprung weight. Also, 17" tires are generally chepaer than 18" tires. It was a factor for me as I probably have to replace tires more often than the average person because of track days.

[looking]

Originally Posted by PC Valkyrie

Lighter rims, which means less unsprung weight. Also, 17" tires are generally chepaer than 18" tires. It was a factor for me as I probably have to replace tires more often than the average person because of track days.

Do you think you've given up any performance going to 17's? Have you noticed any drawbacks?

[TMc135]

Recommend you search through the sticky above that shows what everyone has done. I researched quite a bit and ended up with a square set up (more details on my post http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=60).

Zero rubbing running the Breyton GTS-R's 245/35/18's with 5 MM spacer up front on stock suspension and no camber plates. Even when autocrossing - no rubbing. However, as I have mentioned before, it really depends on which tire you chose. I wanted to go with the Dunlop Dizerra Star Specs (spelling?) but the 40 size is too big in this size and will rub. Hope this info and my post help. I know a lot of addicts have the Breyton's but there is a reason for that - they fit and are pretty light and reasonable cost. Good luck.

[looking]

Thanks TMc,

Yes, I like the Breyton GTS-R too and they are in consideration. To be honest, it's either the Breyton GTS-R or the OZ Ultraleggera (I'm looking for black rims, not sure I like the red ring on the GTS-R)

I read your post, great info. The only problem is that I track my car a few times in the summer and you've indicated that your set up would probably rub under load - have you actually had rubbing issues, now that you've had the set up for awhile? I'm also not sure I want to add spacer does the Breyton come in a +45?

Thanks again for your input.

[PC Valkyrie]

Originally Posted by looking

Do you think you've given up any performance going to 17's? Have you noticed any drawbacks?

Given up on performance? In my mind, performance can only be enhanced with smaller, lighter rims when it comes to acceleration, braking, and handling. Going to 18" is simply for cosmetics, in my opinion, or necessary for clearance of very big brake kits.

Another factor I didn't mention was I definitely did not want rims that required any spacers. I just did not want any extra factors (like vibration, not a perfect hubcentric fit, etc) which could go wrong in car that will be driven on a track.

[looking]

Thanks again PC,

I'm seriously considering your set up now - except I'd like to tire the Bridgestone RE-11 - did you consider this tire?

oh, I know you posted a pic, but how noticeable is the difference in looks between the 17 and 18 (especially in the back)?

[davemohan]

Similar, with maybe a little more of a "street" setup. (pot hole & curb resistant) I went with 17x8 40mm Beyern Mesh with 245x40 Michelin PS2s. No rubbing after close to 7k miles and reasonable tire wear. The rounded shoulder of the PS2 gives you a bit more clearance.

The first 5k miles were with stock suspension, recently went to a Dinan stage 3 setup (about 3/4" lower, 1.5 negative front camber) and everything still works.

[BMWeber]

I also run 245/40-17 PS2s But on a 17X8.5 ET38 with no rubbing

[looking]

Originally Posted by davemohan

Similar, with maybe a little more of a "street" setup. (pot hole & curb resistant) I went with 17x8 40mm Beyern Mesh with 245x40 Michelin PS2s. No rubbing after close to 7k miles and reasonable tire wear. The rounded shoulder of the PS2 gives you a bit more clearance.

The first 5k miles were with stock suspension, recently went to a Dinan stage 3 setup (about 3/4" lower, 1.5 negative front camber) and everything still works.

Originally Posted by BMWeber

I also run 245/40-17 PS2s But on a 17X8.5 ET38 with no rubbing

How do you guys find the performance after going down to 17" benefits and downside? Thanks guys!

[looking]

no feedback guys?

[scorcherjf]

Go with 17's for the track. Cheaper tires, less weight. If you get 18's like me you'll rub =)

[SLO]

Originally Posted by TMc135

Recommend you search through the sticky above that shows what everyone has done. I researched quite a bit and ended up with a square set up (more details on my post http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=60).

Zero rubbing running the Breyton GTS-R's 245/35/18's with 5 MM spacer up front on stock suspension and no camber plates. Even when autocrossing - no rubbing. However, as I have mentioned before, it really depends on which tire you chose. I wanted to go with the Dunlop Dizerra Star Specs (spelling?) but the 40 size is too big in this size and will rub. Hope this info and my post help. I know a lot of addicts have the Breyton's but there is a reason for that - they fit and are pretty light and reasonable cost. Good luck.

+1 I'm running this same setup with F1 Assym tires. I love it so far. I'm going to lower it as soon as the suspension gets in so we'll see if I need camber plates.

[MerlinMc]

My square set up is similar to Monhan's. I have 17x8 OZ Ultraleggeras, which are very light and used some existing PS2s. The ride is much improved and the handling is more neutral.

[looking]

Originally Posted by MerlinMc

My square set up is similar to Monhan's. I have 17x8 OZ Ultraleggeras, which are very light and used some existing PS2s. The ride is much improved and the handling is more neutral.

I'm a performance first looks 2nd kinda guy, but do you notice a big difference in looks? Do the tires fill out the wheel well (especially in the back)?

[MerlinMc]

Originally Posted by looking

I'm a performance first looks 2nd kinda guy, but do you notice a big difference in looks? Do the tires fill out the wheel well (especially in the back)?

I don't notice a big difference in looks. From the side, the 17" Ultraleggera spokes extend to the rim and the overall diameter is the same as stock. From the rear, the current tires don't fill the wheel well as much as I would like side to side though it's not noticeable. When the PS2s I have wear down, I'll switch to 245s all around (see Dave Monahan's post above).