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      09-22-2010, 06:02 AM   #1
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To HPDE or to not HPDE....?

Hey guys, I just bought a 2011 135i 2 months ago and I love the car. Only problem is that I'm frustrated by not being able to drive it fast enough, and I am DYING to put this thing on the track.

There's an HPDE event occurring nearby at the Pocono Raceway, organized by BMC CCA Delval Chapter. It's 10/9-10/10 and costs $400. I've never done HPDE before and am a little nervous.. can't decide whether it seems appropriate to put my car on a track or not. It has 3000 miles on it and it's actually financed, I owe like $26,000 on it right now. Also, driving on a track without insurance kind of freaks me out.

With that in mind, do you guys think I should do it or not? Buying a track car just for this kind of stuff is out of question, I absolutely don't have the money or time to dedicate to that..

Thanks!
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      09-22-2010, 06:11 AM   #2
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Choice is yours, money is yours! But, youo only live once so...
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      09-22-2010, 06:54 AM   #3
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There are companies that specialize on ON-TRACK car insurance. As long as it is NOT a timed event. Speaking of which... your car ins will probably cover you anyway. You might ask your agent. Make sure to tell them it is a car control event and NOT a timed event/race.

You might even look into on track rentals for prepped cars.

Is Bertil Roo's still around there? I did on of their schools many moons ago. I recooemnd them!!! You could sign up for one of their schools. You use THEIR cars and not yours.
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      09-22-2010, 07:11 AM   #4
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Just realize that once you do one event, you'll get 'the bug' to do it regularly. It is simply that much fun. Most groups are really great to run with and they do a good job making first timers comfortable. You'll gain a whole new respect for what your car can do and enhance your general driving skills along the way. Kind of win-win. Unless you are pushing WAY too hard, the odds of actually having any issues that would damage your car are very low. Go and enjoy the potential of your car!
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      09-22-2010, 08:58 AM   #5
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NO!!! Don't do it!!!

I did one 25 years ago... and now I can't stop. It's like a drug, once you become a user, you're hooked for life.

If you just walk away now, you'll have tens of thousands more dollars during your lifetime to spend on whisky and hookers.

Get your priorities straight man!
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      09-22-2010, 12:31 PM   #6
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Just do it!!!!

You don't have to take it to the edge, just getting out there WITHOUT fear of tickets, jail or etc is worth it. You can just focus on technique and driving without distractions. It will teach you to be a better "over the road" driver too.

It is very addicting, but budget what you can afford. Not to scare you, but tires get chewed up quickly. Thank god brakes are in the maintenance program.

It is a visceral experience. It is NOTHING like what you do or think you do driving on the street. My first was at Summit Point, WV about 11 years ago in a '99 E36 M3. They had a skid-pad too. That was a lot of fun.

I am not sure about the insurance. I have heard since it is actually "Driver Instruction" it qualifies. BUT I'M NOT POSITIVE.

DEF GO,
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      09-22-2010, 04:53 PM   #7
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Do it!

There's a reason that BMW put those huge brakes up front.

FWIW, I have Mercury insurance, and they confirmed in writing that I'm covered on track. Remember, technically it's not racing, it's "education."

If you're not covered, track day insurance can be purchased pretty cheaply for the weekend.
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      09-23-2010, 01:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunobm View Post
Hey guys, I just bought a 2011 135i 2 months ago and I love the car. Only problem is that I'm frustrated by not being able to drive it fast enough, and I am DYING to put this thing on the track.

There's an HPDE event occurring nearby at the Pocono Raceway, organized by BMC CCA Delval Chapter. It's 10/9-10/10 and costs $400. I've never done HPDE before and am a little nervous.. can't decide whether it seems appropriate to put my car on a track or not. It has 3000 miles on it and it's actually financed, I owe like $26,000 on it right now. Also, driving on a track without insurance kind of freaks me out.

With that in mind, do you guys think I should do it or not? Buying a track car just for this kind of stuff is out of question, I absolutely don't have the money or time to dedicate to that..

Thanks!
I did a time trial at LIMEROCK with EMRA a month ago.... car had 1,001 miles on it when we hit the track.... That was the first one i ever did and i cant look back...

I got track wheels and tires so as not to eat up or feather my RFT's...

Pocono is wide open.. nothing to hit in the infield. the only wall is on the banked turn where you are just going full out in basically a nice curve. ( yes of course you can spin, catch a tire in a rut and flip the thing over etc etc etc .... but i suspect youll be carefull enough to keep it off the burms. you tube emra time trial at pocono to see layout..

BTW there is one on Oct 3rd at Pocono that i am going to with EMRA alot cheaper !!

1 day track day insurance is available.. search for the companies on here there are a few.. instant coverage over the net. pay by CC about $150.00
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      09-23-2010, 01:37 PM   #9
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do it.

Get track event insurance if you need piece of mind, $180ish or less should do it. Dont try to be a hero and you'll be fine.
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      09-23-2010, 08:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DriveHard View Post
I did a time trial at LIMEROCK with EMRA a month ago.... car had 1,001 miles on it when we hit the track.... That was the first one i ever did and i cant look back...

I got track wheels and tires so as not to eat up or feather my RFT's...

Pocono is wide open.. nothing to hit in the infield. the only wall is on the banked turn where you are just going full out in basically a nice curve. ( yes of course you can spin, catch a tire in a rut and flip the thing over etc etc etc .... but i suspect youll be carefull enough to keep it off the burms. you tube emra time trial at pocono to see layout..

BTW there is one on Oct 3rd at Pocono that i am going to with EMRA alot cheaper !!

1 day track day insurance is available.. search for the companies on here there are a few.. instant coverage over the net. pay by CC about $150.00
this is a time trial though... do I get an instructor for it?! or would it simply be racing..?
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      09-24-2010, 05:55 AM   #11
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Here's the insurance for your event. I expect it will cost $150-300.

https://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/....aspx?pID=1930
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      09-24-2010, 10:09 AM   #12
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Join BMWCCA and do some of their classes. They are extremely well run and quite fun. Also very safe.

Worst case scenario, most tow truck drivers will state they retreived your wrecked car from the side of the road rather than the track, which your insurance would definitely cover. ( I am not saying you should do that, but it is an option)

www.bmwcca.org.
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      09-24-2010, 11:16 AM   #13
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I am doing one tomorrow.

You will find that there are rarely incidents and when there are, they are almost always teachers or group 1 people (on rcomps or slicks) pushing too hard on the 2nd day.

Yes, you have your own teacher and you will learn a lot. Most important thing I learned is that I was not and am still not a good driver (big realization).

All and all it is one of the best things I have ever done and it has saved me when I hydro planed on the highway.
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      09-24-2010, 11:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairy View Post
NO!!! Don't do it!!!

I did one 25 years ago... and now I can't stop. It's like a drug, once you become a user, you're hooked for life.

If you just walk away now, you'll have tens of thousands more dollars during your lifetime to spend on whisky and hookers.
He speaks the truth!

My next event, and first in the 1er, is in November. Suspension, camber plates and tires are not far behind.
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      09-24-2010, 12:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairy View Post
NO!!! Don't do it!!!

I did one 25 years ago... and now I can't stop. It's like a drug, once you become a user, you're hooked for life.

If you just walk away now, you'll have tens of thousands more dollars during your lifetime to spend on whisky and hookers.

Get your priorities straight man!
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      09-25-2010, 07:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairy View Post
If you just walk away now, you'll have tens of thousands more dollars during your lifetime to spend on whisky and hookers.

Get your priorities straight man!
I've gone over the budget with that a long time ago


So now I'm stuck with two options.. the EMRA event on Oct 3rd or the DelVal BMW CCA event on Oct 9-10. The former costs $200 and is a 1pm-7pm event, with 4 15-20 minute track sessions and 2 classroom sessions. The latter costs $400, is a 2 day event, and includes 4 track sessions as well by what I understand, of about 25 min each... Any insights on which one I should choose??? Registration for the EMRA event ends Tuesday!

PS: my insurance won't cover me for anything in a track, so I might need to get other insurance for track day which sucks but oh well. I'm just so fed up with having 300hp and not being able to use them, I think I'm doing this
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      09-25-2010, 08:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunobm View Post
this is a time trial though... do I get an instructor for it?! or would it simply be racing..?
as a novice you run in red group. you pay 40 more for instructor and you run with him till he signs you off. whe i went he drove first 3 laps of first session, then i drove and got a handle of the apex's and braking zones.

he was passanger next 2 sessions, and i drove alone in 4th

He was great BTW... very helpful... he actually enjoyed my 6AT. he had a blast and gave me thumbs up on the car.. he didnt even paddle shift... he left in in sport and off we went.

you may want to go with the shorter track time event. it appears as though you are gonna run on stock tires. the longer event may really beat on them a little more than you will care to live with as your daily driver.

Like i said, im going to pocono on the 3rd.. at least youll have someone to talk to..LOL.. my buddy i s coming with his Miata also..

Let me know if ou decide to come on the 3rd..

p.s dont sweat the track ins.. (i'm in the same boat)

p.s.s also rent the transponder... its the only way to get you track times.
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      09-26-2010, 06:35 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
There are companies that specialize on ON-TRACK car insurance. As long as it is NOT a timed event. Speaking of which... your car ins will probably cover you anyway. You might ask your agent. Make sure to tell them it is a car control event and NOT a timed event/race. ....
Contact the good people at WSIB Insurance (www.WSIBInsurance.com) for on-track coverage.

Feff
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      09-26-2010, 12:32 PM   #19
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as a novice you run in red group. you pay 40 more for instructor and you run with him till he signs you off. whe i went he drove first 3 laps of first session, then i drove and got a handle of the apex's and braking zones.

he was passanger next 2 sessions, and i drove alone in 4th

He was great BTW... very helpful... he actually enjoyed my 6AT. he had a blast and gave me thumbs up on the car.. he didnt even paddle shift... he left in in sport and off we went.

you may want to go with the shorter track time event. it appears as though you are gonna run on stock tires. the longer event may really beat on them a little more than you will care to live with as your daily driver.

Like i said, im going to pocono on the 3rd.. at least youll have someone to talk to..LOL.. my buddy i s coming with his Miata also..

Let me know if ou decide to come on the 3rd..

p.s dont sweat the track ins.. (i'm in the same boat)

p.s.s also rent the transponder... its the only way to get you track times.
interesting point about the shorter event.. yes, I'm running my car completely stock (i want to do it that way to know what it feels like without any mods), RFTs included. My plan is to use the RFTs on my car as a daily driver until about Nov-Dec, when temperatures should be consistently below 45 or so. Then I'm putting winter tires on and selling my RFTs in order to get some decent performance summer tires and new rims for the spring. I might be wrong but I think that using the tires for one or two track days wouldn't make much of a difference in its salvage value, since the difference in thread wouldn't be thaaat tremendous..

I don't know, I think it's just a matter of figuring out if the one day event on Oct. 3rd is enough to satisfy my thirst for fun ?
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      09-27-2010, 08:54 PM   #20
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Alright guys, so tomorrow (Tuesday) is the last day to register! I got in touch with people organizing both events and this is the deal, both of them occur at Pocono North racetrack:

EMRA - $200, 10/3 1pm-7pm, in class time, 4 track runs of about 15-20min each.

BMW CCA - $400, 10/9-10/10 all day events, in class time, 4 track runs each day of about 25 min each.


I'm going with my car completely stock and want to have as much fun as possible. The first event is less painful to participate in because they'll inspect my car over there, and there's no need to take it to a mechanic like BMW CCA requires. Also, I don't know if running 2 track days will put excessive strain on my car, it's only 3000 miles old! But at the same time I'm wondering if the 1 day event is enough to have a good amount of fun.. being inexperienced I just don't know!

I need to sign up by tomorrow!!! OPINIONS PLEASE!!!
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      09-27-2010, 10:38 PM   #21
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Alright guys, so tomorrow (Tuesday) is the last day to register! I got in touch with people organizing both events and this is the deal, both of them occur at Pocono North racetrack:

EMRA - $200, 10/3 1pm-7pm, in class time, 4 track runs of about 15-20min each.

BMW CCA - $400, 10/9-10/10 all day events, in class time, 4 track runs each day of about 25 min each.


I'm going with my car completely stock and want to have as much fun as possible. The first event is less painful to participate in because they'll inspect my car over there, and there's no need to take it to a mechanic like BMW CCA requires. Also, I don't know if running 2 track days will put excessive strain on my car, it's only 3000 miles old! But at the same time I'm wondering if the 1 day event is enough to have a good amount of fun.. being inexperienced I just don't know!

I need to sign up by tomorrow!!! OPINIONS PLEASE!!!
wow.. ok i wish i saw this earlier..

Personally, i think the RFT's re your limiting factor. 2 days of "at speed" track time is gonna show so wear on the shoulders no matter how much air you put in them.. The car will be fine... forget about that.. plenty of time for cool down and calm down between runs..

I ran my car at Lime rock w/ 1001 miles on it.. Its fine..and its an AUTO !!!

No faults / lights/ slips/ bipps/ nothing...

My first TT with EMRA left me wanting more... sure. 1 more session .. 5 more laps... but thats the beauty of it.. you do your runs and plan your attck for the next event..

there are only 6 cars in our class ( not counting u ) which is ST-2, there is one other 135. remember i have a 128...

Bring food, water, 2" and 3/4" blue painters tape, a folding chair, and ill take care of the rest. for the future your gonna want to bring tools, car number magnetic signs, spare tire, jack, torque wrench, zip ties... etc etc etc..

p.s. dont forget to rent the transponder, and click for the first time $100 discount, and instructor fee.

next time i read this will be at 7pm tomorrow... i am surfed block at work)

my .02.... ps tech inspection at EMRA is check helmet, run rpm to 5000 for sound check, have numbers on car. done !! ( they see ur car is stock)
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      09-28-2010, 09:06 AM   #22
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Hmm ok so 1 day IS enough I take it?

I think I'm going to go with the EMRA event... the BMW CCA event is all day and I live 2 hours away from the poconos, not sure I'd want to drive there at 6am 2 days in a row..

I'm going to get them to lend me a helmet and I'll rely on you for the tools I guess . I don't have any tools or anything else since this is a last minute decision and at this point I don't want to make any big investments. Let me know if this is a problem lol!

I'll be sure to take blue painters tape although I have no idea what we need it for haha!
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