Am I getting a line of BS from my sales person?

impulsebrklyn · 08-05-2005, 02:08 PM

Ok ordered my car last week was told I was getting 1000 over invoice. Trust the women very very nice. Mom just leased a car from her. She tells me I can have my 330i for 1000 over invoice. Now here is the problem!!

330i 33,485
PP 2,000
SP 1,455
AT 1,210
HFS 455
FDS 430
Delivery 695

Total 39730
1000 over inovice would be 40,730

My bill is 41,530 which is 800 more then it should be. Well after I figured this out I called my sales person telling her this. She is telling me the invoice for the vehicle is 34,285 which is 800 more then what is listed. She is telling me that 800 is for advertising and area fees. She never discussed this while I was signing the paper, WTF is this? She told me she has no control over this and this is what the dealer does. Is she feeding me BullSh*t and really charging me 1800 over invoice?? Im in Brooklyn, NY for reference.

Thanks Chris

EVO_S4 · 08-05-2005, 02:10 PM

the price increase was effect

ward · 08-05-2005, 02:40 PM

this is a great reason to negotiate a price rather than $1000 over invoice

kahala12 · 08-05-2005, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by impulsebrklyn

Ok ordered my car last week was told I was getting 1000 over invoice. Trust the women very very nice. Mom just leased a car from her. She tells me I can have my 330i for 1000 over invoice. Now here is the problem!!

330i 33,485
PP 2,000
SP 1,455
AT 1,210
HFS 455
FDS 430
Delivery 695

Total 39730
1000 over inovice would be 40,730

My bill is 41,530 which is 800 more then it should be. Well after I figured this out I called my sales person telling her this. She is telling me the invoice for the vehicle is 34,285 which is 800 more then what is listed. She is telling me that 800 is for advertising and area fees. She never discussed this while I was signing the paper, WTF is this? She told me she has no control over this and this is what the dealer does. Is she feeding me BullSh*t and really charging me 1800 over invoice?? Im in Brooklyn, NY for reference.

Thanks Chris

Well the 330I price increase was around $300, and they will usually tack on a training fee of $180, so it should not be more than a $500 difference. But sales people are snakes no matter how much you think otherwise, just tell them you will go elsewhere after taking the additon money in condideration, if they do not budge you do not want to deal with them anyway, as they will probably try and screw you again come time to pick up your car.

Peace

JazzEKline · 08-05-2005, 02:46 PM

"Am I getting a line of BS from my sales person?" I would say 90% of the time the anwser to that question is YES! Just remember you are buying from them, without your money they get NOTHING! They aren't doing you any favors...anything they can do to drive up profit they will do it, from trade in's, down payment, financing, or the actual price of the car they are going to give it to you...otherwise they wouldn't sell the car.

ward · 08-05-2005, 02:55 PM

www.kbb.com just told me your invoice price is 39460 destination included
did you maybe forget the 500 buck metallic paint, and the 300 increase, that would add up to the 800 you think is off

nimo · 08-05-2005, 02:57 PM

Bring a print out of your BMWUSA website buildsheet, so you can justify the price.

As for me I bought a showroom floor model and got ~$1500 below invoice in Hawaii.

Remember to play hardball. I know a guy that came back six times before accepting their price. You can always go to another salesman.

BellasBmw · 08-05-2005, 02:57 PM

Ok maybe someone can clear this all up for me, cause its starting to bug me. My 325i costs about the same as some people's 330's. Is it cause i live in southern cali, and taxes are more? Or what? I ended up getting $750 off invoice (they were strict about it). My car was $35,950, and with tax, lic, reg., it was $39K out the door.

ward · 08-05-2005, 03:25 PM

alot of other states make you pay your tax,reg... at their DMV's
some states don't have sales tax

the number you'd want to compare with others is the before tax number
my car was about a grand less, (all options are in my sig)we both paid less for our cars than a base model 330

stressdoc · 08-05-2005, 03:58 PM

Bella, I assume you meant $750 off MSRP, not invoice. Invoice is basically the dealer's cost. MSRP is the sticker price. That was probably the going rate in your area at the time. Dealers are only allotted a certain number of E90s. For example, if a dealer gets 10 cars a month to sell, and has 15 potential buyers, it only makes sense for the dealer to set a high profit. If you are not willing to buy at $750 off MSRP, someone else is. That is the great thing about ED: Not only do you start at 7% off, but the dealer has freedom to discount because it is not coming out of their allotment. So you might end up with closer to 10% off what you would have paid. But then you would have to suffer driving around europe for a week or so during break-in. And then come back to the USA and have to wait for 6 weeks to reunite with your fantasy. Torture!

impulsebrklyn · 08-05-2005, 04:00 PM

The total on my bill I provided included nothing but the car and destination. DMV and taxes where seperate. total with tax(3478.16) and dmv(67.50) is 45,075.64.

No metallic paint its jet Black!!

Car is already in production im waiting for some trouble if I say something. But if it is really a fair price I really couldnt be bothered starting anything. I dont trust sales people for crap, and want to here some peoples opinions before I make any descions.
Chris

CC 330i · 08-05-2005, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellasBmw

Ok maybe someone can clear this all up for me, cause its starting to bug me. My 325i costs about the same as some people's 330's. Is it cause i live in southern cali, and taxes are more? Or what? I ended up getting $750 off invoice (they were strict about it). My car was $35,950, and with tax, lic, reg., it was $39K out the door.

The price he was quoting above (either with or without the $800 ad fee) is still minus the tax, title and license fees which add up to as much as $3500 in CA. He will end up spending about $43K $44K out the door, so that is still about 3 to 4K more than you.

I got about the same deal you did under MSRP (maybe 1.5K at most off list) and my out the door price was about 42K for a pretty bare bones 330i. (Sport Package only).

It sounds like even with the $800 ad fee, impulsebrklyn is getting a great deal.

BellasBmw · 08-05-2005, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Bella, I assume you meant $750 off MSRP, not invoice. Invoice is basically the dealer's cost. MSRP is the sticker price. That was probably the going rate in your area at the time. Dealers are only allotted a certain number of E90s. For example, if a dealer gets 10 cars a month to sell, and has 15 potential buyers, it only makes sense for the dealer to set a high profit. If you are not willing to buy at $750 off MSRP, someone else is. That is the great thing about ED: Not only do you start at 7% off, but the dealer has freedom to discount because it is not coming out of their allotment. So you might end up with closer to 10% off what you would have paid. But then you would have to suffer driving around europe for a week or so during break-in. And then come back to the USA and have to wait for 6 weeks to reunite with your fantasy. Torture!

Ah ok i see. I was getting kinda frustrated reading that 330's were running about the same price as my 325, but yet since i live in a place where everything is $, i figured it was normal. Thanks for clarifying. And next time i purchase a bmw- its euro delivery all the way. Ive been to germany 2x, why not a 3rd, and what a great little souviner hehe..

impulsebrklyn · 08-05-2005, 04:09 PM

PS NEW YORK STATE TAX SUCKS!!! 8.375%

cpcollin · 08-05-2005, 04:11 PM

Bella, looking at your specs I'm seeing a breakdown like this...

MSRP $30,300
Metallic 475
STEP 1,275
Sport pack 1,600
Power seats 995
Sirius 595
Destination 695
Discount (750)

TOTAL $35,185

Did the $35,950 you quoted include the chrome tips and tint? At any rate, a jump from 35,950 to 39,000 implies about 8.5% in taxes, registration and any fees they may have tacked on. I have no idea what the tax rate is in Cali, but if it's close to 8.5% then things seem to add up. Taxes should definitely be the bulk of that.

My car ended up at nearly the same out the door figure, but I did ED and paid VA taxes at 3%.

ag · 08-05-2005, 04:40 PM

I did ED for 325i and with the following options I bought it for 34,875 before tax. On the road 36,900 with 5% md tax and tags.

Metallic Paint
Active Steering
Premium Package
iDrive/Navi
Xenon lights
Park Distance Control

Plus the dealer gave me the euro navi disc for the trip and bmw floor mats.

This is an ED calculator but if you change the invoice numbers you can also use it for stateside delivery.

NaTuReB0Y · 08-05-2005, 04:53 PM

CALIFORNIA TAX SUX MORE 8.5%

w/ Auto & Sports Package + $3,400 TAX-DMV = $42,345

"we need more of your tax money" - Governator

eelton · 08-05-2005, 06:05 PM

Sales tax in Chicago: 9% (just recently increased). Can anyone top that?

JVFan · 08-05-2005, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eelton

Sales tax in Chicago: 9% (just recently increased). Can anyone top that?

That's bordering on commie.

CALIF65GM · 08-05-2005, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellasBmw

Ah ok i see. I was getting kinda frustrated reading that 330's were running about the same price as my 325, but yet since i live in a place where everything is $, i figured it was normal. Thanks for clarifying. And next time i purchase a bmw- its euro delivery all the way. Ive been to germany 2x, why not a 3rd, and what a great little souviner hehe..

Bella, keep in mind most of the 330 under $40K that you're seeing are on ED. Mines is just a shade under $40K and OTD about $43.5. 8.5% sales tax in SF. :mad: :mad:

Also if I remember correctly, you didn't have to wait very long for your car since it was arriving at the docks.

BellasBmw · 08-06-2005, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CALIF65GM

Bella, keep in mind most of the 330 under $40K that you're seeing are on ED. Mines is just a shade under $40K and OTD about $43.5. 8.5% sales tax in SF. :mad: :mad:

Also if I remember correctly, you didn't have to wait very long for your car since it was arriving at the docks.

No i didnt wait 2 long. I placed the deposit on my car a day before it was docking. $43.5K sounds about right for the 330, i swear i saw some people post in the "how much are you paying" thread, the same amount for my car but in a 330.

Execution · 08-06-2005, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by impulsebrklyn

Ok ordered my car last week was told I was getting 1000 over invoice. Trust the women very very nice. Mom just leased a car from her. She tells me I can have my 330i for 1000 over invoice. Now here is the problem!!

330i 33,485
PP 2,000
SP 1,455
AT 1,210
HFS 455
FDS 430
Delivery 695

Total 39730
1000 over inovice would be 40,730

My bill is 41,530 which is 800 more then it should be. Well after I figured this out I called my sales person telling her this. She is telling me the invoice for the vehicle is 34,285 which is 800 more then what is listed. She is telling me that 800 is for advertising and area fees. She never discussed this while I was signing the paper, WTF is this? She told me she has no control over this and this is what the dealer does. Is she feeding me BullSh*t and really charging me 1800 over invoice?? Im in Brooklyn, NY for reference.

Thanks Chris

I used to sell BMW's for 9 years ... there is a dealer advertising group fee (DAG fee). It varies from region to region. New York has the highest DAG fee in the country. In my area, it is $200. I believe in LA and Miami it is $500. I am not sure what it is in NY but the $800 does sound quite a bit high.

This is what you should do. Since you are paying $1,000 over invoice, don't go by what they are telling you. Ask to see their invoice! Don't accept, "Your car is still in production and we don't have it yet. However, I have calculated it for you!" Once the car is in production, they can print the invoice.

They can print the "actual invoice" off the Internet from their internal BMW website called DCS (Dealer Communication System). It is the same website they use to locate and order vehicles. If your salesperson does not have access to it, then ask for the manager and have him print it off and show it to you.

Prices you get from the Internet are not always correct, because of the DAG fee and especially now that there has been a price increase.

BTW - I paid $350 over invoice and have been enjoying mine since May 9th

Execution

08-05-2005, 02:08 PM	#1
impulsebrklyn First Lieutenant 18 Rep 387 Posts Drives: BMW 330i Jet Black Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Brooklyn, NY iTrader: (1)	Am I getting a line of BS from my sales person? Ok ordered my car last week was told I was getting 1000 over invoice. Trust the women very very nice. Mom just leased a car from her. She tells me I can have my 330i for 1000 over invoice. Now here is the problem!! 330i 33,485 PP 2,000 SP 1,455 AT 1,210 HFS 455 FDS 430 Delivery 695 Total 39730 1000 over inovice would be 40,730 My bill is 41,530 which is 800 more then it should be. Well after I figured this out I called my sales person telling her this. She is telling me the invoice for the vehicle is 34,285 which is 800 more then what is listed. She is telling me that 800 is for advertising and area fees. She never discussed this while I was signing the paper, WTF is this? She told me she has no control over this and this is what the dealer does. Is she feeding me BullSh*t and really charging me 1800 over invoice?? Im in Brooklyn, NY for reference. Thanks Chris
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08-05-2005, 02:10 PM	#2
EVO_S4 Colonel 117 Rep 2,232 Posts Drives: 2016 M3 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: TN iTrader: (28) Garage List 2016 BMW M3 [0.00] 2009 BMW [8.24]	the price increase was effect __________________ 2016 M3 2016 Audi Q5 3.0T
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08-05-2005, 02:40 PM	#3
ward Major General 155 Rep 6,158 Posts Drives: F Join Date: May 2005 Location: T iTrader: (0)	this is a great reason to negotiate a price rather than $1000 over invoice
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08-05-2005, 02:46 PM	#5
JazzEKline Private 2 Rep 67 Posts Drives: (maybe) 4 series Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Waner Robins, GA iTrader: (0)	"Am I getting a line of BS from my sales person?" I would say 90% of the time the anwser to that question is YES! Just remember you are buying from them, without your money they get NOTHING! They aren't doing you any favors...anything they can do to drive up profit they will do it, from trade in's, down payment, financing, or the actual price of the car they are going to give it to you...otherwise they wouldn't sell the car.
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08-05-2005, 02:55 PM	#6
ward Major General 155 Rep 6,158 Posts Drives: F Join Date: May 2005 Location: T iTrader: (0)	www.kbb.com just told me your invoice price is 39460 destination included did you maybe forget the 500 buck metallic paint, and the 300 increase, that would add up to the 800 you think is off
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08-05-2005, 02:57 PM	#7
nimo Private First Class 9 Rep 144 Posts Drives: E90, F30 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Honolulu iTrader: (0)	Bring a print out of your BMWUSA website buildsheet, so you can justify the price. As for me I bought a showroom floor model and got ~$1500 below invoice in Hawaii. Remember to play hardball. I know a guy that came back six times before accepting their price. You can always go to another salesman.
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08-05-2005, 02:57 PM	#8
BellasBmw If love is the answer,please rephrase the question 315 Rep 1,731 Posts Drives: Tit Silver 325i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Diego, Ca iTrader: (1) Garage List 2006 325i [0.00]	Ok maybe someone can clear this all up for me, cause its starting to bug me. My 325i costs about the same as some people's 330's. Is it cause i live in southern cali, and taxes are more? Or what? I ended up getting $750 off invoice (they were strict about it). My car was $35,950, and with tax, lic, reg., it was $39K out the door. __________________ ~~BellasBmw~~ Proud mama to 325i/TiAg/Black lette/Pwr seats/Sirius/Sport/Walnut/Step/Xenons/Chrome exhaust/20% tint
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08-05-2005, 03:25 PM	#9
ward Major General 155 Rep 6,158 Posts Drives: F Join Date: May 2005 Location: T iTrader: (0)	alot of other states make you pay your tax,reg... at their DMV's some states don't have sales tax the number you'd want to compare with others is the before tax number my car was about a grand less, (all options are in my sig)we both paid less for our cars than a base model 330
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08-05-2005, 03:58 PM	#10
stressdoc Moderator 618 Rep 10,855 Posts Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Waco TX iTrader: (0)	Bella, I assume you meant $750 off MSRP, not invoice. Invoice is basically the dealer's cost. MSRP is the sticker price. That was probably the going rate in your area at the time. Dealers are only allotted a certain number of E90s. For example, if a dealer gets 10 cars a month to sell, and has 15 potential buyers, it only makes sense for the dealer to set a high profit. If you are not willing to buy at $750 off MSRP, someone else is. That is the great thing about ED: Not only do you start at 7% off, but the dealer has freedom to discount because it is not coming out of their allotment. So you might end up with closer to 10% off what you would have paid. But then you would have to suffer driving around europe for a week or so during break-in. And then come back to the USA and have to wait for 6 weeks to reunite with your fantasy. Torture!
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08-05-2005, 04:00 PM	#11
impulsebrklyn First Lieutenant 18 Rep 387 Posts Drives: BMW 330i Jet Black Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Brooklyn, NY iTrader: (1)	The total on my bill I provided included nothing but the car and destination. DMV and taxes where seperate. total with tax(3478.16) and dmv(67.50) is 45,075.64. No metallic paint its jet Black!! Car is already in production im waiting for some trouble if I say something. But if it is really a fair price I really couldnt be bothered starting anything. I dont trust sales people for crap, and want to here some peoples opinions before I make any descions. Chris
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08-05-2005, 04:09 PM	#14
impulsebrklyn First Lieutenant 18 Rep 387 Posts Drives: BMW 330i Jet Black Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Brooklyn, NY iTrader: (1)	PS NEW YORK STATE TAX SUCKS!!! 8.375%
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08-05-2005, 04:11 PM	#15
cpcollin New Member 0 Rep 27 Posts Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: May 2005 Location: VA iTrader: (0)	Bella, looking at your specs I'm seeing a breakdown like this... MSRP $30,300 Metallic 475 STEP 1,275 Sport pack 1,600 Power seats 995 Sirius 595 Destination 695 Discount (750) TOTAL $35,185 Did the $35,950 you quoted include the chrome tips and tint? At any rate, a jump from 35,950 to 39,000 implies about 8.5% in taxes, registration and any fees they may have tacked on. I have no idea what the tax rate is in Cali, but if it's close to 8.5% then things seem to add up. Taxes should definitely be the bulk of that. My car ended up at nearly the same out the door figure, but I did ED and paid VA taxes at 3%. __________________ ED 2006 330i --- SG,Black,Walnut / MT / ZSP / ZPP / Hot Seats / Flux Capacitor
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08-05-2005, 04:53 PM	#17
NaTuReB0Y Powered By 36DD 337 Rep 7,369 Posts Drives: 2006 E90 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Inland Empire iTrader: (12)	CALIFORNIA TAX SUX MORE 8.5% w/ Auto & Sports Package + $3,400 TAX-DMV = $42,345 "we need more of your tax money" - Governator Attached Images __________________ 2006 E90 330i Jet Black \| 20" WORK VS-XX \| FK452 \| H&R Sport on Koni Yellow \| REMUS QUAD
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08-05-2005, 06:05 PM	#18
eelton Private 2 Rep 67 Posts Drives: 335i coupe 6MT Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, IL iTrader: (0)	Sales tax in Chicago: 9% (just recently increased). Can anyone top that?
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