Trade in value sucks

[mackeroni]

Originally Posted by IanWPB

For what it's worth, 2012's with ~65k miles are running through the auction on average around $15k according to Manheim. I would post a screen shot but I'm on my phone. Typically dealer will give you a trade in "allowance", which is basically just showing you a higher number for your car, but it's just coming out of the profit on the car they're selling you.

This is why you need to make your deal on the purchase of the new car first, with no trade in. Tell the sales person you are going to sell your current car to your brother-in-law. Then, after you nail a good purchase deal on your new car, tell the sales person your bro-in-law backed out and insist on top dollar for your trade.

The new car purchase and the current car trade-in MUST be two distinctly separate negotiations to ensure you are treated fairly. Also...and this is VERY IMPORTANT...you need to know how much to spend on the new car and the honest value of your trade-in before you even start negotiations.

Finally, always remember that you have the most powerful negotiating tool in YOUR toolbox... your Walking Shoes. If you are not sure that you are getting a good deal, put on your Walking Shoes and head for the door. Trust me. Even if the sales person lets you get in your car and drive away. He/she will call you before 24 hours pass. When your phone rings, they are putting YOU back in control of the deal. Say just what you want and DO NOT settle for anything less.

Peace

[Dthltm]

Originally Posted by HyeWarrior

Too bad no one wants my DCT

Whatcha got?

[HyeWarrior]

Originally Posted by Dthltm

Whatcha got?

Here's my for sale ad on craigslist. Will be going up on other sites soon

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv...932749276.html

[sandlion]

Originally Posted by HyeWarrior

Here's my for sale ad on craigslist. Will be going up on other sites soon

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv...932749276.html

-First oil change at 55,XXX miles

this might turn off a lot of buyers....

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by sandlion

-First oil change at 55,XXX miles

this might turn off a lot of buyers....

He purchased at 49,8XX miles.

[sandlion]

Originally Posted by Esteban

He purchased at 49,8XX miles.

Sure, just saying your average buyer might be turned off or confused by that choice of words.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by sandlion

Sure, just saying your average buyer might be turned off or confused by that choice of words.

If you say so. Seems pretty clear to me.

[sandlion]

Originally Posted by Esteban

If you say so. Seems pretty clear to me.

Yeah I had to read it, it sounded like a problem to me on first reading. but whatever, just trying to be helpful.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by sandlion

Yeah I had to read it, it sounded like a problem to me on first reading. but whatever, just trying to be helpful.

Yeah, well I guess he could've said "first oil change (while I owned it was) at 55,XXX miles", or something like that, just to make it perfectly clear to everyone, although it does say above in his link how many miles were on the car when he bought it.

[Gangplank]

That's seems like lot of work done in 1 year and 15k miles. Was that all repair or did you do some of it as preventative maint.? I bought my 2011 last Dec. w/ just under 40k mi. and am just under 48k now. I guess I don't drive much. :-D

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by tock172

Doesn't faze me. But thanks for the lead, I'm trying to get rid of my first one right now.



I don't know why this seems like it's news to most people in this thread? Whenever you purchase a new or newer car, the tax is an immediate sunk cost. Unless you make a large enough down payment, the vast majority of people are under water off the bat.

This is why it's actually far better to finance your car at a low interest rate than to pay cash for the depreciating asset. Finance it at a favorable rate and you can take the initial cash outlay and invest it in something that's actually going to earn a return as opposed to the car which takes a 10% hit or more as soon as you drive it off the lot.

I'm glad you are not my financial advisor. Paying interest on top of the sales price on a depreciating asset is much worse than just paying cash. Better yet, buy a very old cheap reliable used car for cash and keep it forever. You can still take the extra cash and invest it.

Car purchases are almost always emotional transactions and rarely thought of as investment decisions.

[HyeWarrior]

lol yes, first oil change under my ownership was done at that point listed. Carmax had done an oil change a few miles before I purchased the car.

Originally Posted by Gangplank

That's seems like lot of work done in 1 year and 15k miles. Was that all repair or did you do some of it as preventative maint.? I bought my 2011 last Dec. w/ just under 40k mi. and am just under 48k now. I guess I don't drive much. :-D

The only repair that was preventative was the thermostat and idler pulley. Car has been serviced only at Offset Motorwerks and Bavarian Built. Both mechanics told me the same thing, all of these repairs are fairly normal for a N54/N55, just unfortunate luck for me that it all happened within a year of ownership. Silver lining though, many of the issues that these car experience have already been replaced.

[Tommm]

Originally Posted by sandlion

Sure, just saying your average buyer might be turned off or confused by that choice of words.

I read it the same way you did. I also caught a line about being bone stock, then the line about the aftermarket spoiler.

I would cut out 90% of that ad. All you want is.

Pictures don't do it justice, fastidiously maintained, and lots of preventative maintenance done. Contact for details.

The hardest part about a sale is getting the person in the store.

Originally Posted by Iron Man

I'm glad you are not my financial advisor. Paying interest on top of the sales price on a depreciating asset is much worse than just paying cash. Better yet, buy a very old cheap reliable used car for cash and keep it forever. You can still take the extra cash and invest it.

Car purchases are almost always emotional transactions and rarely thought of as investment decisions.

I would rather pay 4% interest on a depreciating asset while earning the same 4% or better on money in the bank. Think about gap insurance. Who where is immune from an unexpected emergency (medical, furnace, job loss) that could wipe out one's cash and cause one to need to pay 25% on a credit card to get by while one's shiny new car that depreciated 30% sits in the driveway digesting all the cash. Don't tell me you are the .01% of the population that bought a $40,000 car with cash and still has significant funds in the bank because you planned for that rainy day.

Moreover, if I didn't plan on keeping the car more than four years I would lease because it is financially smarter! Yes, that's based on facts. Unless of course if you can predict with 100% certainty that you will be exempt from a diminished value claim, or know for sure you will never ever do a bonehead move that damages the paint. With a leased car you drop it off at the dealer, pay the deductible, and at the end of the lease turn it in and get a credit for a pre negotiated value. If the car is worth more, sell it and keep the profit. In the meantime you put money into your 401k instead of a depreciating asset.

Better yet, just buy an old car and keep it forever because comparing buying an old car to a new is relevant to the conversation. Definitely apples to apples.

[tock172]

Originally Posted by Iron Man

I'm glad you are not my financial advisor. Paying interest on top of the sales price on a depreciating asset is much worse than just paying cash. Better yet, buy a very old cheap reliable used car for cash and keep it forever. You can still take the extra cash and invest it.

Car purchases are almost always emotional transactions and rarely thought of as investment decisions.

No need to be glad, as I don't waste my breath advising fools who have an inherent misunderstanding of consumer finance like you've just displayed above.

You cannot honestly say you'd rather take $50k, throw it at a car that will be worth $40k as soon as you drive off the lot as opposed to putting down $10k and then earning a realistic rate of return in the market on the remaining $40k. If you've got decent credit, you can secure 1.9%, 0.9% or even 0.0% financing for up to 60 months. 0% literally translates to around $16.75 paid per thousand financed. So while you're paying essentially nothing to borrow the bank's money, you can keep your hard earned nest egg and have it working for you.

Aside from a Honda Civic or something of the like, it's just not smart to keep a car past it's prime anymore, especially a BMW, even something simple and easy to work on like an E36 or E30. When you factor in the increasing costs of maintenance, the possibility of a total engine overhaul or even just a head gasket, in conjunction with smog, emissions, inspections and NLA parts, you're hosed in comparison to financing something 1-2 years old at a favorable rate. Not to mention, the resale value will almost always be dismal unless you get lucky. You'll get pennies on the dollar for what you've put into the car to keep it roadworthy.

Originally Posted by Tommm

I would rather pay 4% interest on a depreciating asset while earning the same 4% or better on money in the bank. Think about gap insurance. Who where is immune from an unexpected emergency (medical, furnace, job loss) that could wipe out one's cash and cause one to need to pay 25% on a credit card to get by while one's shiny new car that depreciated 30% sits in the driveway digesting all the cash. Don't tell me you are the .01% of the population that bought a $40,000 car with cash and still has significant funds in the bank because you planned for that rainy day.

Moreover, if I didn't plan on keeping the car more than four years I would lease because it is financially smarter! Yes, that's based on facts. Unless of course if you can predict with 100% certainty that you will be exempt from a diminished value claim, or know for sure you will never ever do a bonehead move that damages the paint. With a leased car you drop it off at the dealer, pay the deductible, and at the end of the lease turn it in and get a credit for a pre negotiated value. If the car is worth more, sell it and keep the profit. In the meantime you put money into your 401k instead of a depreciating asset.

Better yet, just buy an old car and keep it forever because comparing buying an old car to a new is relevant to the conversation. Definitely apples to apples.

Thank you, I truly couldn't say it any clearer than that. The myth of it being financially sound to keep an older car running is pervasive and untrue.

[Gangplank]

I agree with Tomm. Cut out anything negative or not positive in the add, and include - all regular maintenance $ records for service since I've owned it. Basically it looks like you are trying to sell a lemon to get away from its maintenance.

[HyeWarrior]

Good points. So basically, keep it simple stupid

[ianc]

No need to be glad, as I don't waste my breath advising fools...

Whoa there; down boy. There may be some truth in what you say, but you only hurt your credibility when you stoop to personal insults. Just in case you didn't pick that up in the fifth grade...

It might make financial sense to trade in a car after four years, if you regard it as nothing more than an appliance. This isn't exactly a Toyota board however; some of us see our cars a little differently than that...

ianc

[MZWIE]

Well I don't completely agree. I buy the car and then drive it for at least 150k miles or ten years. The cost of maintenance is the same no matter what. I am quite handy and with a few exceptions have done all the work myself. Including non-repair items such as suspension upgrades and the sort.

So when I buy the car I am not doing it thinking of future resale. I buy it because I want it and factor in the cost for operations and maintenance.

I feel people are too quick with this throw away culture we now have. Whether car, house, lawn mower I will repair until it just won't go anymore. Then look too purchase a new item.

So the car is for use.

[MZWIE]

Well I don't completely agree. I buy the car and then drive it for at least 150k miles or ten years. The cost of maintenance is the same no matter what. I am quite handy and with a few exceptions have done all the work myself. Including non-repair items such as suspension upgrades and the sort.

So when I buy the car I am not doing it thinking of future resale. I buy it because I want it and factor in the cost for operations and maintenance.

I feel people are too quick with this throw away culture we now have. Whether car, house, lawn mower I will repair until it just won't go anymore. Then look too purchase a new item.

So the car is for use.

[ianc]

My thoughts exactly. I don't like the 'disposable' attitude of today's society; it's not sustainable.

Sure was a lot different when I grew up...

ianc

[Esteban]

I must say that my 135i is not an appliance or a financial investment. Don't care what it's worth today or what it's worth tomorrow. I enjoy it every day and will pay what's necessary to keep it running good and looking good. It is my ultimate driving machine. There are many like it but this one is mine. It is strictly for my enjoyment.

I drive another car for transportation; my daughter's '05 Jetta, which is available to me whenever I need it. She has another car that she uses for a daily driver. I work at home so don't really need a DD. I pay for all maintenance on my daughter's Jetta. Very good arrangement, if I do say so myself.

[HyeWarrior]

Can we all just agree that everything is conditional? What may be right for you may not be for me. And vice versa.

I put my 135i for sale for three major reasons:
1. The maintenance isn't suitable for my current condition.
2. I'm pursuing a masters degree, and owning/maintaining a car like a 135i doesn't make any financial sense.
3. Knock on wood, I'll be married in the next few years. I don't want a car sitting there tempting me to be sold to pay for other costs.

I figure that once I'm married, I can put aside a reasonable budget and buy an appropriate toy.

I leased my 135i's replacement with the idea that I want to put as little money down as possible, and if the car still makes sense at the end of the lease, I'll buy it out. If not, they'll forgive the mileage overage (IF I do go over), if I lease another one of their vehicles. At least that's the plan.

My ideal situation in 10-15 years is to have one or two toys in the garage (Cayman S and E46 M3), a leased sensible daily driver under $300 a month, and the wife lease something or buy a long term family vehicle.

Either which way, as long as you know what you want out of a car, and you know how to prioritize your own financial situation, who cares?

It blows my mind that people buy brand new exotics and can take the depreciation hit, but it also blows my mind that people are ok with putting $10k+ down to lease a M6