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07-26-2012, 09:08 PM | #24 |
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I use 5w-30 (don't track the car). Vinney uses 5w-40 (extra protection on track). I think 0w-40 has extra protection at cold start as its thinner but it would probably degrade quicker . But don't think it would be a problem as you would be changing in 5000kms.
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07-26-2012, 09:23 PM | #25 |
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I was using 5w-30 but switched to 0w-40. I recommend trying both. For a stock car 5w-30 is fine and is cheaper than 0w-40 as well. Dealer uses Shell even though the engine oil cap says BMW recommends castrol oils. I prefer CE though.
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07-26-2012, 09:48 PM | #26 |
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Went with Motul 300V 10W-40. The only thing is that means oil change every six months and 5000km becomes compulsory.
Our temp is not that cold here in Aust and most cars would be fine with a winter rating of 10. Unless of course you live in the alpine region.
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07-27-2012, 12:02 AM | #27 | |
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the only reason to use an LL oil is if you're going the extendedservice intervals. 20kkm etc. which is silly as. 0W-40 means you get a bit more protection when hot btw... 40 is thicker than 30, but the 30 would net you a LITTLE bit more horsepower due to less friction.. however as far as i've gathered, thinner oils degrade slightly faster than thicker ones - and when spending time at high rpm (ie on a track) 40 would be better than 30 the 0 means it's really REALLY thin on cold start, so it spreads faster, but you have to be a bit gentler until it warms up probably, because it doesn't hang around for very long.. but the 40 is sorta the 'true' weight of the oil, as hot is where the car should be spending most of it's time.. however if you do tons of short journeys where the car never warms up, a 0W-* is probably not the wisest choice a few of my car-mad friends pretty much said 10-40 is a good/common choice in general, 0/5-30/40 is what my manual says, but it says that all over the world anyway, i'm thinking 5W-40 or 10W-40 Last edited by flinchy; 07-27-2012 at 12:09 AM.. |
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07-27-2012, 12:45 AM | #28 | |
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07-27-2012, 01:13 AM | #29 |
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not sure if sarcasm, but, no worries lol.
just like everything i start reading about (last thing was probably car audio), it's always so in-depth and complicated when you start caring, i'm still not 110% on the oil grades, i still have to read more on specific situations and applications as to why *exactly* you would really want different grades and combinations etc. 24 hours ago oil was oil and the numbers were specific and it was clear cut that there had to be some bands that were 100% good and 100% bad, and that the best oils for my engine would already be googleable because SURELY other N52 owners would give 2 craps about some of the most important stuff they put in their cars... oh wait i forgot, a significant portion of them put basic unleaded (91 RON etc.) in their engines -_- |
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07-27-2012, 08:10 AM | #30 | |
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LL certification means paying BMW. You can find oil with the same spec in the same brand that have different certifications. A 0W-* oil doesn't mean it is really thin on cold starts. Viscosity of the oil thins out as the temperature increases so at cold start the oil is always going to be thicker then when it is at operating temperature. Unless you start your car in below zero temperature the winter weighting is not that significant as a 25W oil is spec to perform at -5 degrees. The SAE rating means the oil comply to the specs only. You will find that same brand, same SAE rating but different product will have different viscosities at the different temperatures so just using SAE rating to compare oil is useless. You need to look at the actual spec itself. The most important spec to look for is the high sheer viscosity usually measured at 150 degrees which gives you an indication of the film thickness. Oil breaks down as low as 150/160 temp, and our engine according to the head engineer from M who oversees the 1M and M5 development stated that certain parts of N54 can reach momentarily to 200. However, it is not sustained like the S65, ie, there is no need to use the 10W60. This breakdown of oil can thin the oil and therefore the oil need to be replaced after a certain period. When I view the oil analysis - there are two things that are important: a) metal readings b) oil breakdown From the research of viewing numerous posted oil analysis, Amsoil, Motul and Castrol Edge perform the best. Most N54 race cars in the US use Amsoil, but it is not as available here. Redline doesn't seem to perform as well as the other oils which I would stay away from (engine oil only). It is important to note if you choose a race oil like the Motul 300V it is essential to change the oil more frequently because of the lack of detergents in the oil. Last point I want to make is that I had the 10W60 oil wrongly put in my car. I felt the car was less rev happy as soon as I collect the car. When we put in the 5W30 in the car, the car becomes much more responsive. The bottom line is you are trading performance with protection. However, you need to look at how you drive the car and select the most appropriate oil for your car and driving habits. The lighter the oil, the more power the car makes (only by a few ponies - redline have a comparison chart). The heavier the oil (provided they are the same brand, same label) will give better protection. I am by no means an expert, but we have spend a few months reading and researching about this especially after most dealers decide to put the wrong "oil" in our cars. Kamal might want to chip in here .
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07-27-2012, 08:40 AM | #31 | |
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http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/ higher number = thicker, lower number = thinner 0W = thin when cold 30 = thick when warm the point of the multi grade oils is that they can thicken up at higher temperatures, when your engine needs oil to stick around and provide a more solid film afaik - since the W is winter.. if the oil was super thick on a cold start (-5deg for example like you said) it simply wouldn't flow through your motor... and if it was thin at higher temps, your engine wouldn't have much of a protective layer and it'd probably not be healthy for very long - okay I just got a little more educated on what the numbers mean at least, thanks didn't think about breakdown at higher temps though - thanks! at a guess though, without more mods, my engine will be a fair bit cooler than an N54 though :P and the motul 300V site lists it as containing some detergents and being safe for street use, though i've gathered not suitable for Long interval service? lol http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1079390 this analysis seems to indicate it's pretty well fine for everyday use though... still, 'normal' intervals would be the safest bet. also, isn't SAE rating only really specific for single grade oils.. the multi grade 0W-40 for example means it behaves like an SAE0 at cold temps, but also behaves like an SAE40 at high temps? and oil to oil, those SPECIFIC temp ratings should be the same.. whether or not they behave differently at even higher/lower etc. temps? ok, too much thinking at this time of night after a long day, nap time haha ED: yeah from memory of a result yesterday, every SAE grade you drop, you gain ~1-2% horsepower increase or something.. so going up multiple grades will get you a very noticable decrease - a -60 would be way too thick at a guess :P, i wonder if going TOO thick can be a bad thing? as in damaging.. at a guess i'd say yes, since it's not moving around enough, it also probably risks overheating, when it's hanging around the hotter parts of the engine too much. ED: going by http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/ - single grade oils are the ones that thicken as they cool down.. i think, my mind is slowly ceasing function. yeah, on page 4 or 5 he actually says it's safer to use a too thin oil than a too thick one if in doubt, but it also seems to depend a lot on climate and OCI Last edited by flinchy; 07-27-2012 at 08:58 AM.. |
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07-27-2012, 10:24 PM | #32 | |
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Yes, the Motul 300V have some detergents in it, and from most oil analysis it actual holds up better than the castrols. However, technically it has less oil and not designed to be a long life oil and should be changed at regular intervals unless you got oil analysis for your car specifically to indicate otherwise. Redline racing oils on the other hand has no/little additives and not recommended for street use at all. With power/protection - as an example the double esters oils tend to be thinner but gives better high sheer viscosity. Therefore, technically (or just pure marketing), it gives you the extra power, but maintain the protection of a higher grade oil. However, no component or little component testing has been done with double esters and its safety for long term use for other engine components have not been established (namely the "plastics"). There was an informal quote documented somewhere (I think it is this forum) that an M engineer stated that in fact 10W60 is more protecting for the N54. There are other anecdotal quotes when they have done oil analysis for the N54, the 10W60 performs better than 5W30. Oil is very confusing, that's why it took a long time for me to be able to digest everything. Just remember car companies doesn't test oil with the car - they just spec what they need and provided they are within specs, they approve the oil.
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07-28-2012, 12:53 AM | #33 | |
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the dual grade means that while it's a 20W (for example) when cold, but it's a ... whatever, 40 when warm, which is thicker (being a 20W-40 in that case) the magic of polymer chains. 20W-40, 20 when cold, 40 when hot, 20 is thinner than 40 heck, i'll grab the quote for you. "I can't tell you how many times I have heard someone, usually an auto mechanic, say that they wouldn't use a 5W-30 motor oil because it is, "Too thin." Then they may use a 10W-30 or SAE 30 motor oil. At engine operating temperatures these oils are the same. The only time the 5W-30 oil is "thin" is at cold start up conditions where you need it to be "thin." " that's from the first article, about 1/4 of the way down, just below the charts. if it was an SAE 20 (not a 20W-X) then yes, the oil thins out at higher temps and thickens from lower - that's what i gathered from article two. (i can't really grab a quote, as i believe it was the entirety of page 2)\ ED: and yeah, redline racing oils have no detergent, but they still have a good street oil that's perfectly safe for street use (and i believe it's also a base V?) Last edited by flinchy; 07-28-2012 at 01:06 AM.. |
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07-28-2012, 02:01 AM | #34 | |
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As my understanding 40 is 40 at 100deg 30 is 30 at 100deg... 40 would be above 30 lower than 100deg So it would offer more protection at a lower temperature (i wouldn't have a clue how to work out more specifics) Physically faster? Hm maybe because it flows more slowly and therefore sticks around the warmer parts of the engine for longer The running cooler thing overall? I guess google would have that answer.. I believe going too thick makes you run hotter as the oil wouldn't get a proper chance to cool down So i figure it's a balance sorta thing, it sticks around a bit longer so leeches more heat, but still adequately gets to where it vents heat (oil cooler or whatever?) Better off asking google really i guess hah The 5 is irrelevant though, may as well be 0 or 10 for all it matters when warm |
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07-28-2012, 10:31 PM | #35 | |
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Let me try to clarify the articles here for you. 20W60 at 0 degree performs like a 20 single grade at 0 degree, and flows like a 60 at 100 degree. A 20 rating oil at 0 degree still thicker than 60 at 100 degree. 20W at 0 degree doesn't behave like a 20 single grade at 100 degree. The 20W60 multigrade oil will always be thicker at 0 degree than at 100 degree. It is not thin like a 20 grade at 100 degree and thicker to 60 degree at 100 degree. This is a slightly simplified version because winter rating looks at dynamic viscosity of the oil (which is more important when cranking), and the normal rating looks at the kinematic viscosity. As a side note, for engine protection you should look at high sheer viscosity at 150 degree which is not SAE rated. As previously stated, pick any multigrade oil and read its spec at 20, 100 and 150 degrees and it will become very clear. Even read the SAE specs - all the viscosity are described there.
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07-28-2012, 10:38 PM | #36 | |
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You have to look at the specs to determine which oil will heat up faster and will stay cooler.
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07-29-2012, 03:59 AM | #37 | |
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i'm so confused >_< how is 5W thicker than 30? if it's thicker why not call it... i dunno.. 60-30? ahh i think i get it, it's a base 30 that's taken down to a 5, which isn't really a 5, because a straight 5 is 20 thickness cold, but the 5W synthetic is 40 thickness that's... why ? it would make more sense if they just called it a 60-40 or whatever, it acts like a 60 (or whatever) at 212F when 'actually' cold, and a 40 straight when warm this means you could actually accurately say how thick it was warm or cold, not lower number - thicker than higher number... kinda... derp. that article even says that a 5 is too thick for startup.. it says a 10 thickness is ideal for all situations, and even a 0W is too thick for that... so in reading this, why would you EVER use more than a 0W-* ? they say it's 'too' thick, but wouldn't you want nice and thick to protect stuff at startup? this all suddenly got a thousand times more confusing lol ED: i suppose it's all semantics, it doesn't matter so much, i guess, if it is thicker at startup, since for the purpose you have to consider it 'thin' and not protecting well (even though the bobis article says it's too thick still *shrug*), and just mainly look at the second number as to what you want in your engine? Last edited by flinchy; 07-29-2012 at 04:19 AM.. |
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07-29-2012, 07:56 AM | #38 | |||||
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In general, you can look at the second number for protection. However, as long as the oil and engine is within the spec it protects all the same. Let's say if you drive your car once a week; and you wait till your engine is in operating temperature before you have a bit of fun; and you don't do it all the way where your engine is likely to stay within its operating temps, then a 5W30 will protect as well as a thicker oil. That is the reason why the N54 is spec with this oil because it is enough to protect within the expected limits of the engine. Whilst the s65, it was speced with TWS as the engine needs that specs for it to be protected. The best number to look at (arguably) is really not the second number but high shear viscosity at 150, where some companies published this. Again, looking at just viscosity could be over simplifying as the type of oil can have an impact as well. If you look at oil simply with protecting the engine with no mods and you drive just "normally". Looking at oil is probably not really important. Changing to a more expensive oil usually really means you try to get some performance out of it, whatever that may mean to you.
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07-29-2012, 04:36 PM | #39 |
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In the charts on the bobis article, it says the 5W at 0 is THICKER than a straight 5 at 0 degrees though, so it's just not entirely correct labelling it as a 5 at all?
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07-29-2012, 10:09 PM | #40 | |
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http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto..._explained.htm
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07-29-2012, 10:11 PM | #41 |
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Blending the blends why not? .
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07-30-2012, 12:14 AM | #42 | |
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the difference between 20 and 60 seems minimal, though i'm guessing '1' is pretty high in this context? ED: and on blending blends, from reading some ofthe articles, some 5W40 can be considered 'low' 5W40 or 'high' 5W30, and same for 5W30, you can consider some as being almost 'low' 5W40's or 'high' 5W30's... so in some cases, oils labelled as different grades can be very similar in actual viscosity, apparently.. it's because they have to be labelled as *something* and they SLIGHTLY fall into one grade over another. i guess it's all a moot point, when no mater what you'redoing, you're probably ruining other properties of the oil lol Last edited by flinchy; 07-30-2012 at 12:22 AM.. |
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07-30-2012, 04:53 AM | #43 | |
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I wasn't serious about blending oils.
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