'10 135i M-Sport vs '12 128i M-Sport

[Cal]

Originally Posted by champignon

NachoB and I test drove a white 128i in the San Diego area a few weeks ago, a car that was outfitted with the M-Sports package but which appears to have since been sold as it is no longer listed for sale. Both of us felt it was a very fun car to drive and that it had plenty of power. Both of us own 1Ms, and I also own a 135i, for reference.

Was it the white M-sport 128i at BMW Encinitas by any chance? It was pretty loaded (xenons, premium, NAV), with CPO until 2018, and really low mileage. Someone scooped it up pretty fast.

[tock172]

I wouldn't want either of the vehicles in question. The 128i absolutely needs to be paired with a 6MT and preferably M sport as well. For the 135i, I wouldn't want one older than 2011. The N55 engine is superb and the DCT transmission is a serious upgrade to the old torque converter 6 speed auto in the '08-'10 135i.

[TechieCarGuy]

Let me ask you all this... all things being equal (tranny, options, mileage, etc) if buying out of warranty used. Would the non-Turbo 128i be potentially less problematic and cheaper to get up to a reliable standard than the 135i?

Either car I buy, I would slowly have my mechanic work through the car and service all the major areas. It would add-up, but I figure a couple grand invested in doing coolant, transmission, rear diff and other fluid flushes, replacing brake pads and rotors and going a head and doing the plugs, and doing a carbon cleaning, etc. Would provide me with a car that I would have a good base line on.

That being said, my wife has knocked me down a few notches as far as what I want vs need. As she says, this car needs to be a good daily driver that is "reliable" and will get us through the next couple of years or so. Then assuming things go as planned for us financially, I can get my fun car. She at least knows and accepts that in no way does reliable for me translate to boring.

With this in mind, the added horsepower of the 135i and even the extra amenities I thought I had wanted don't seem to be as important. At this point there are three cars I am looking at, a 48k loaded 2010 135i M-sport, a stripped 2011 118i M-sport with 40k miles in the color I would want over all and the third is a 2012 118i with no performance options, but has 17k miles.

As much as I wanted the performance, or M-package and the amenities like Nav, etc. The stripped base 118i with super low miles has me rethinking everything. The flip side of it all is these are what are available this week, next week or the week after might bring something better, or totally different.

[850tgul]

All things being equal, yes, the 128 is the more reliable machine.

You say you’re looking for a reliable DD and then hope to pick up a fun car when the time is right. I was in a very similar situation when I picked up my 128 a year and a half ago. Having just come from a Z06, M3, Z4M right before I was going to DD the 128 for a bit and then pick up a toy again. 18 months later and I’ve changed my tune and I could very well see myself holding onto the 1er for a very long time.

Let me tell you, the 128 IS a fun car if spec’d right. Biggest musts are 6MT and sports seats as most have said. Suspension can be sorted afterwards. Out the box, the car was pretty solid but now that I’ve overhauled the suspension, it is a blast. It is basically an E36 M3 brought up to modern standards.

Also, speed and power is all relative. Compared to the 135, yes, the 128 is slow. Compared to 90% of the others cars on the road though, the 128 is fast. The car can run sub 6 sec to 60, so it’s by no means a slouch. I’ve had cars that were obscenely fast and I honestly have just as much fun with my 128 on a daily basis as I did with them.

Not to sound like a pretentious car douche, but if you’re a bit of a connoisseur, the 128 is very charming. If you don’t think you need the 135’s power, the 128 is about as good as it gets for a reliable, fun, usable DD. Where else can you get a car the size of a civic with rwd dynamics and a stick shift? It's a hell of a recipe if you appreciate those kind of things.

[mr.fabulous]

Sounds like you've already made a decision. But just as another data point (and MHO)... my car is my only car, and *way* overkill. I do not "need" any of this. It's very nice to have, I love love love this car... but nothing here could be accurately described as "a good daily driver that is reliable". My car is a luxury that I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford.

I had a professor in college (Engineering school) who once said "the mean time between failures of a part that does not exist is infinite". I just love that saying. Lots and lots and lots and lots of parts with these cars. You want "reliable", get a stripped-down Toyota or Hyundai.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Cal

Was it the white M-sport 128i at BMW Encinitas by any chance? It was pretty loaded (xenons, premium, NAV), with CPO until 2018, and really low mileage. Someone scooped it up pretty fast.

yes

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by 850tgul

Let me tell you, the 128 IS a fun car if spec’d right. Biggest musts are 6MT and sports seats as most have said. Suspension can be sorted afterwards. Out the box, the car was pretty solid but now that I’ve overhauled the suspension, it is a blast. It is basically an E36 M3 brought up to modern standards.

Also, speed and power is all relative. Compared to the 135, yes, the 128 is slow. Compared to 90% of the others cars on the road though, the 128 is fast. The car can run sub 6 sec to 60, so it’s by no means a slouch. I’ve had cars that were obscenely fast and I honestly have just as much fun with my 128 on a daily basis as I did with them.

Not to sound like a pretentious car douche, but if you’re a bit of a connoisseur, the 128 is very charming. If you don’t think you need the 135’s power, the 128 is about as good as it gets for a reliable, fun, usable DD. Where else can you get a car the size of a civic with rwd dynamics and a stick shift? It's a hell of a recipe if you appreciate those kind of things.

There is so much goodness in this post. This guy gets it!

[TechieCarGuy]

I drove the nearby 135i yesterday and can say that I am very impressed with the 1 series from both a build quality stand point and performance. The engine in the 135 is amazing, even with AT but more than that I couldn't believe I was in a 6 year old car with 50k miles on it. The car looked and felt brand new... now that being said, I probably won't buy this car due to the dealer and the lack of service history.

Having driven this, now my second 1 series I am now more than ever determined to find one. Ideally I can find a low mileage 128 M-sport with Nav, but as my wife says the longer the hunt goes on the more fun I have.

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by Quart

Having driven this, now my second 1 series I am now more than ever determined to find one. Ideally I can find a low mileage 128 M-sport with Nav, but as my wife says the longer the hunt goes on the more fun I have.

Good luck! If you're truly not in a hurry, that's a very good thing. Take your time, if you can afford to, and find the right car. It's out there!

Have you considered CarMax? They have 10 manual transmission 1ers on their site right now (128i/135i, coupes & convertibles), will transfer cars to different locations for a reasonable fee, and have an excellent extended warranty available.

Truthfully, if I were to buy any luxury car out of warranty, CarMax would likely be my first choice. Do you ever read Jalopnik? You may be familiar with Doug DeMuro's series chronicling his ownership of a Range Rover purchased through CarMax with the extended warranty. I believe he has exceeded the cost of the warranty in service costs saved, and he gets to take the car where he wants for service (naturally, he chose a LR dealership).

EDIT: Also, their inventory changes quickly - last week I was looking at manual transmission 911's and they had one or two, and then none. Today they have nine!

[Mr Rooty Von Tooty]

Both cars have the most important element, the straight six. This engine is what BMW is really know for, because of its smoothness and pretty much bullet proof reliability. Of course, I'm excluding the turbo part and its associated plumbing. This is the system that will likely cause you some headaches; however, whatever expenses you might have with it aren't going to put you in the poor house.

Unless the cars has a manual or a DCT, I wouldn't bother. A real "sports coupe" like the One deserves a decent transmission. Anything else is for old ladies. The M-Sport is a very desirable option. Just the seats alone make it worth the extra cost.

As far as the reliability of any particular car is concerned, you can always negotiate a 100% 90 day warrant, and then after your purchase, you can have the vehicle thoroughly inspected. There is also the possibility of getting a CPO too.

Finally, we come to money. German cars are expensive. I could buy practically any other used brand for half the cost of the BMW. A BMW vehicle has a lot of metal and parts. Things are bolted or screwed together while half the typical American vehicle is glued! Take a look at the door hinges. They are forged while most cars use steel stampings. What I'm saying is your money is buying a lot of quality.

Frankly if you have to go through all sorts of financial gyrations or your decision is based upon what "might" happen in the future, you should probably buy a Toyota. It will never break down and will bore you to death.

[mr.fabulous]

Originally Posted by Quart

Having driven this, now my second 1 series I am now more than ever determined to find one. Ideally I can find a low mileage 128 M-sport with Nav, but as my wife says the longer the hunt goes on the more fun I have.

I found mine in AutoTrader... flew one-way to collect it... and then drove it home.

[Swimjim]

i have an '08 128i with auto, sport pkg, etc. i enjoy the hell out of it. i enjoy the reliability out of it. it has been tuned by AA, so its more enjoyable. sometimes i wish it were MT, but considering bad knees, traffic and idiot drivers around me, the convenience of AT is nice; although i keep it in manual sport mode since i do not like the shift points from bmw.

i think it just comes down to how much $$$ do you want to spend on the maintenance and how much shifting is important to you.

[TechieCarGuy]

I had been trying to remain patience and wait to see what my broker finds for me, but keep coming back to the only local 1-series within 200 miles of my location that I drove last week. It is a 135i, M-sport w/ Auto, nav, etc and 48k miles... there is no service history other than what appears on car fax, but supposedly was owned by an AF officer from the nearby base. I've called all but one local BMW dealers to see if they serviced the car and has a history, but don't have time this week to do that, or get back to the car (its 80 miles away from me).

I'd more or less decided that a 128- w/ m-sport was right for my needs due to my over abundance of caution towards reliability and my shrinking threshold for repair cost beyond what I already pay on our Mercedes. (I'm great with routine, but its the unknown on turbo cars that scares me).

My broker has been on vacation and I've yet to have him appraise my trade or offer me any potentials yet, although the guy is good and once he gets to it, I have no doubt he'll find me a car.

The problem is for me is every car I have seen online while they have the performance goodies I want, its hard to find 128i's with M-sport and nav, etc like I would prefer. The 135i I've driven has it all, except for the before mentioned god awful black painted wheels.

I really don't have the time in the next two weeks to take a whole day off work during the week ( I would need this to get my trade to the dealer, bring the 135i back to my town and my mechanic and then close a deal), my Saturdays are booked with family obligations for the next month and this dealer isn't open on Sundays. So I am more or less at the whim of the car buying gods as to whether this one is around in 3 weeks when I can slip away. In the meantime, I guess I can give my broker a chance to work for me and see if either he finds something or the 135i sells, in that case my anxiety is a mute point...

The thing is I am caught between an unknown car with everything I want, the extra power that would be fun, nut more than I need but has the options and looks I'd like and what is out there and can be had... The 135i is a firm $22k, I can probably get a basic 128i with fewer miles a year or even two newer with the performance parts I want, but otherwise stripped for $3k less, and in a color combo I'd like more. Not to say make my spouse happy by saving on potential repairs on an unknown turbo car. But I am having a hard time letting go of the only car with in 200 miles of my location.... to be continued I'm sure

[champignon]

Having extensively shopped used 128i and 135i cars, I can state unequivocally that if you are looking for the equivalent of an M-sports package, it is infinitely easier to find that on a 135i than on a 128i.

As others have stated, 6MT is where it is at for these cars, especially the 128i with its less powerful engine.

Trying to find a 6MT, 128i, with sports seats and the sports suspension, is basically a waste of time in my opinion, unless you stumble onto one. This is because you can get a similarly equipped 135i for very little more money, since there are tons of 135i vehicles with those attributes, and very very few 128i vehicles having the same. Your typical 128i has sensetac plastic upholstery, automatic transmission, and regular seats. These were sold as "entry level economy-near luxury" vehicles in most cases.

The only important parts of the sports package to get are the suspension (which is standard on all 135i cars) and the sports seats. The steering wheel can be purchased at reasonable cost and installed by a competent tech in 1 hour.

And, with a little bit of looking you can find scads of suitable 135i cars, either CPO or with remaining factory warranty (some 2012s and all 2013s). If you go CPO or with remaining warranty, and buy it from a BMW dealer, this is about as close to a risk free used vehicle transaction as I can think of. Another option is CarMax, which generally has at least a few 1-Series vehicles in their system, who will ship at some cost to the nearest dealer to you, and who gives you a 5 day no questions asked return of the vehicle for any reason.

Good luck.

[850tgul]

Originally Posted by champignon

Having extensively shopped used 128i and 135i cars, I can state unequivocally that if you are looking for the equivalent of an M-sports package, it is infinitely easier to find that on a 135i than on a 128i.


Trying to find a 6MT, 128i, with sports seats and the sports suspension, is basically a waste of time in my opinion, unless you stumble onto one. This is because you can get a similarly equipped 135i for very little more money, since there are tons of 135i vehicles with those attributes, and very very few 128i vehicles having the same. Your typical 128i has sensetac plastic upholstery, automatic transmission, and regular seats. These were sold as "entry level economy-near luxury" vehicles in most cases.

You know I guess I've never really thought about it, but yeah, I think you're right here. Just about every other 128 I see on the road looks to be a non sport, convertible ( and I'm assuming automatic). I can't recall the last time I saw a 128 coupe, if I did what are the chances it was a stick? Majority of 135s I see are coupes. Sounds like the 128 coupe, m sport, 6MT is really the "Jalopnik" special.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by 850tgul

You know I guess I've never really thought about it, but yeah, I think you're right here. Just about every other 128 I see on the road looks to be a non sport, convertible ( and I'm assuming automatic). I can't recall the last time I saw a 128 coupe, if I did what are the chances it was a stick? Majority of 135s I see are coupes. Sounds like the 128 coupe, m sport, 6MT is really the "Jalopnik" special.

It's like looking for a relatively low mileage, unmolested, E46 M3, at a reasonable price. A real unicorn :-)

[tock172]

OP, have you given any thought to look to see what Carmax has in their inventory? I got my 135i from Carmax, with a warranty for an excellent price. That would remove any fear associated with opting for the car you really want - the 135i.

Also, regarding the sport packages: there are a lot more M sport and sport package 135i vehicles on the road in comparison to the 128i. Remember, the 128i was an entry-level BMW, and many came with very few options.

[TechieCarGuy]

I spent some time with a friend yesterday that happens to be the used car manager at a MB/BMW dealer. We had a long discussion about the market for 1-series and being one that goes to auction a lot, he notices trends with certain cars which might help when shopping. Understanding that finding a car at auction is usually the last stage of a hunt since the ones that get there either don't sell or are unwanted by the dealer who had them.
I went to visit him to get an idea what my trade was worth (2002 SLK320) and was of course disappointed, but he did share some wisdom on the 1-series that seems to parallel what has been said here. He did comment however that he is seeing more and more modified 135's at auction these days due to their prices, and his recommendation was to find one that is unmolested.
After an hour, I did show him the original 135 I drove and he did a search in the BMW service data base and has encouraged me to try and get that car. Being that I was new to BMW's and the fact that the seller dealer didn't know any better he clarified that it was not an M-sport car, but did have the sport package. Which helps me in negotiations...
I have another appointment on Friday to drive it and start discussion. Since it has all the bells and whistles I want, and with the extended warranty on the turbos and HPFP I am not as worried about problems as I was before

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Quart

I spent some time with a friend yesterday that happens to be the used car manager at a MB/BMW dealer. We had a long discussion about the market for 1-series and being one that goes to auction a lot, he notices trends with certain cars which might help when shopping. Understanding that finding a car at auction is usually the last stage of a hunt since the ones that get there either don't sell or are unwanted by the dealer who had them.
I went to visit him to get an idea what my trade was worth (2002 SLK320) and was of course disappointed, but he did share some wisdom on the 1-series that seems to parallel what has been said here. He did comment however that he is seeing more and more modified 135's at auction these days due to their price . . . . .

Easy resale is not one of the virtues of the 1-Series. They are small and expensive, for what most people think they are. Hence, they need to depreciate down quite a bit to find a secondary, resale market, and that is happening. The 2013 135is convertible I am considering buying from Carmax has depreciated 37% in 2 years, if you take their sales price and compare it to the MSRP, this for a car with <7000 miles on it.

People on this forum are attracted to these cars largely because they are last of breed to those who used to know and love BMW vehicles. They are the last such cars with responsive hydraulic steering combined with manual transmissions that BMW will ever make. Most here who have test driven newer BMW models describe them as flat and uninteresting.

If the above does not fit your profile, then you may be seeking the wrong used vehicle.

Please be advised that there is no shortage whatsoever of lower mileage, latter vintage (2012 and 2013) 135i vehicles with either the M-Sports package or at least sports seats (they all have the suspension). A recent vehicle such as this with a documented history sold by a reputable dealer or private seller is unlikely to be a risky vehicle to own, especially if you get some sort of extended warranty or the vehicle has at least a year of the original warranty remaining.

I would cast my net far and wide if I had decided that I wanted a 135i, and I wanted it for the right reasons. I would absolutely NOT limit myself to vehicles in the immediate area, as that is going to be much more expensive, and hugely more limiting, when it comes to getting what you really want. Plus, you will have almost zero bargaining power, if the dealer knows you are apprehensive about going after the car's "real" competition, which is the great mass of used 135i cars for sale around the country.

Good luck!

[swagon]

You Americans are lucky because 135i's seem to be pretty popular over there while here in Europe they're rare. Especially LCI 6MT's. It took us one year to find an almost fully loaded, CPO 6MT coupe... In Germany, there is more convertibles than coupes. Now there are only a few low-mileage LCI 135i's that are actually more expensive with more miles than ours in 2013!

[TechieCarGuy]

After several hours of negotiation and a lot more for my Mercedes trade than I expected I picked the girl up today. I'm sure there will be many, many more post to follow on all sorts of topics as I work my way around the car.

At first I wasn't a fan but its growing on me; the previous owner had the wheels and the leading edge of the side skirts painted what looks like a VW United gray, they're also a pretty close match to the brake calipers.

Excuse the cell phone picture, I'm also sure I will have many more fro the real camera soon.... really big grin!!

[mr.fabulous]

**Nice!**