BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      08-01-2012, 06:06 AM   #45
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I've owned an 335i E93, it's a heavy lump so if performance is your goal then don't bother however, it really is such a nice cruiser and I'd have one again if tearing around and tuning wasn't in my blood.

If you want my opinion then then go for a lesser model E93 (better looking than E88 I think), can you get a 328i M-Sport over in the USA? We get a 325i M-Sport 220bhp here in the UK, or 330i M-sport 260bhp which about satifies the want for a nice 6ycl engine note and a little bit of power on the freeway should you need it. Convertible is best for cruising about, enjoying the weather, looking good but you can't confuse it with a proper performance car or coupe chassis. If you want a 335i E93 then you need a COBB AP/JB4 or whatever at least or you'll grow to hate how it feels sluggish at times, with a tune though it's pretty fast in a straight line and honestly, isn't THAT bad in the corners but watch out for that heavy ass if the roof is down. Owning a convertible kind of says "yeah, I want to look good, enjoy the sun and the engine note but I couldn't care less about handling or how it performs", that pretty much sums it up.

Best case? 135i/E92 335i for fun, E93 328i (if available) for chillin'.

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      08-01-2012, 06:12 AM   #46
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^thats not the case at all
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      08-01-2012, 06:21 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
^thats not the case at all
Having owned a couple of 'performance' convertibles (and also their counterpart coupe) and plenty of performance coupe's then I'd say, for me, what I described it about the sum of it. I'm talking 335i coupe vs convertible, also CLK55 AMG coupe vs convertible. Back to back, handling, performance is in the hands of the coupe, the convertible cannot compete.

You can't buy a convertible and expect the same level or performance as a coupe, not possible, heavier and less rigid. You need to forget about precise performance goals when your in the market for one and accept it for what it is. Convertible is all about the 'top down' experience, it's an amzing way of driving. You can have a sporty, fast convertible, totally...but it'll just never be the best it can be in comparison to it's coupe sibling.

If you were referring to my comment Re: E93 is better looking than E88 then I guess that's a matter of opinion.
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      08-01-2012, 08:31 AM   #48
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A very wise man once said...

"Seriously? The weight/handling BS??? Even if you're tracking weekly (which I'm betting is a miniscule
portion of the members here), the small advantage you gain at the track pales is comparison to the
pure joys of top-down motoring. WTF is so hard to understand about that?"


I tend to agree with him 100%.
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      08-01-2012, 08:40 AM   #49
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I used to have 80's three series cars. They were light, nimble, amazing handling cars in their day. The new three series hardtop convertibles are gorgeous cars, but heavy, complicated and expensive. The One series epitomizes the original spirit of BMW as a sport sedan. If you want a GT convertible with the convenience of a coupe for for a 335i, you won't be disappointed. But if you want something fun, light and a true soft top (my looks awesome btw, haters... Up, or down!) for for the 1 series. Youmwont regret your choice!
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      08-01-2012, 09:42 AM   #50
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Is it that hard of a concept to grasp that some people do not see "hair flowing in the wind" as a top contributor to driving enjoyment?
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      08-01-2012, 10:15 AM   #51
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As someone noted hear earlier I don't think many people look at the 135 and say "convertible or coupe"?
You pretty much know going in "I want A convertible" or you don't. Price may factor in because there differential between the coupe and vert is perrty significant.

If you wanted ultimate performance you probably never seriously considered the convertible.

In my case I knew I wanted a convertible to replace my Wrangler so I never considered the coupe and I was willing to pay for it and give up some performance. So I cross-shopped my 135 vert against convertibles in the $50k price range, not against the coupe. One option was the 328 convertible as the 335 would have been over my prioce limit but I decided I wanted the added performance of the 135 over the 328. I also considered a CPO Z4, Nissan, Volvo, MB etc.

So there are convertible people and non-convertible people. If you have your heart set on one then you don't care about losing a relatively small amount of performance that on the street you won't even miss 99% of the time.
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      08-01-2012, 10:40 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Is it that hard of a concept to grasp that some people do not see "hair flowing in the wind" as a top contributor to driving enjoyment?
not at all. But a lot of hate and ignorance flows in the opposite direction
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      08-01-2012, 11:04 AM   #53
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Well, I often read in these back-and-forth arguments that the decrease in rigidity is small and there is that invisible 300lb man that is always with you - a hard-to-ignore weight difference. The positive that I read is that you get that open air experience. So far I have only stated facts - no hate and no ignorance.

Now, to many of us, an open top provides absolutely no enhancement to the driving experience and, in reality, is a negative characteristic. On top of the now-negative open top, you also have the tiny decrease in rigidity and the massive 7+% weight gain. The only reason I mention this is because I think you vert guys would have a much easier time if you stopped trying to defend the driving characteristics and simply fess up that you just prefer to drive with the top down and that this specific characteristic means more to you than the rigidity and weight savings. Just be happy and content with that as it's more than enough of an explanation. In the end, that's why you bought the vert, correct?
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      08-01-2012, 11:09 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Well, I often read in these back-and-forth arguments that the decrease in rigidity is small and there is that invisible 300lb man that is always with you - a hard-to-ignore weight difference. The positive that I read is that you get that open air experience. So far I have only stated facts - no hate and no ignorance.

Now, to many of us, an open top provides absolutely no enhancement to the driving experience and, in reality, is a negative characteristic. On top of the now-negative open top, you also have the tiny decrease in rigidity and the massive 7+% weight gain. The only reason I mention this is because I think you vert guys would have a much easier time if you stopped trying to defend the driving characteristics and simply fess up that you just prefer to drive with the top down and that this specific characteristic means more to you than the rigidity and weight savings. Just be happy and content with that as it's more than enough of an explanation. In the end, that's why you bought the vert, correct?
All of that is essentially true, but the OP wasn't deciding between a vert and a couple. He was deciding between 2 different verts, so all of us vert owners are trying to figure out why this same argument is being brought up here yet again. The same way MT vs. DCT vs. automatic is brought up where's it's not necessary, in this case the argument isn't necessary. The OP wants a vert, period.
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      08-01-2012, 11:37 AM   #55
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I wasn't addressing the OP...
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      08-01-2012, 11:44 AM   #56
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For me it will always be about Convertibles or Station Wagons. I love my N54 135 Convert with sport pkg. It would be tough to replace. I actually put the top down more in the FALL/WINTER/SPRING because with the heated seats and hot air blowing it's very comfortable. In the Summer in NYC it can be too hot for top-down driving in the city. I'm currently selling mine, regrettably, I don't need a car and I have some bills I'd like to pay off. Scary thing is that in a year I'll be in a good place to buy another car and I would be hard pressed to find a similar ride at the price I paid. Plus the n54 is no longer! Similar Cars I'm thinking about are twice the price or more. I'm hoping there will some deux ex Machina that will allow me to keep her but it's just a car I have to remind myself. Cars I like right now are the new 911S Convertible, the out going 9114S convertible, Corvette 427 or grand sport convertible, bmw 650 convertible, Jaguar convertible, and that's about it. The 3 series convertible was too big for me but without enough real room inside to justify all the bulk - plus that trunk disappears when you have the top down. If I do keep her, when the warranty runs out I'm going to do some modifications.
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      08-01-2012, 12:24 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
...I think you vert guys would have a much easier time if you stopped trying to defend the driving characteristics and simply fess up that
you just prefer to drive with the top down and that this specific characteristic means more to you than the rigidity and weight savings.
And how exactly is the "rigidity and weight savings" (I say again, unless you're on the track) a big deal on a road trip, a cross-town run to
Costco or any other number of DD duties that constitute 90% of your time behind the wheel?
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      08-01-2012, 12:28 PM   #58
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Y'all are right about handling characteristics, I'm sure.

But it's a shame you coupe owners have never heard what your own car really sounds like when you step on it. ;-)
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      08-01-2012, 01:00 PM   #59
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I was one of those guys that said I'd never buy a convertible...always about performance and just plain looks. I've owned my fair share of "performance" cars and can say that the 135i vert is fantastic! I went into BMW looking to maybe get an M3...test drove one and was impressed for sure, but not blown out of the water enough to make me want to trade my car in for it...was intending to just wait for the new body style...my sales guy then suggests test driving the 1...I said what the heck I got time to kill...drove the vert top up and down and just really fell in love with the "Fun" factor it provided. I think PERSONALLY that the 1 looks great as a convertible...both top up and down. I really just do not like how the 3 series look as convertibles...awkward with the top up and just a little too long with the top down. Again that's my opinion. Also I still have use of a mini trunk with top up or down...the 3 has an equivalent of a glove box with the top down. That's my 2 pennies worth.

J
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      08-01-2012, 01:47 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Section147 View Post
And how exactly is the "rigidity and weight savings" (I say again, unless you're on the track) a big deal on a road trip, a cross-town run to Costco or any other number of DD duties that constitute 90% of your time behind the wheel?
You don't need to be on a track to drive quickly around a turn or accelerate rapidly. You're talking to a former Lotus owner. Every pound counts, especially when we're talking about nearly 300 of them. Again, just be truthful about your priorities. Mine are focused on driving dynamics, yours are centered around not having a roof. I don't know why you have such a hard time coming to terms with the fact that you did make some level of performance sacrifice.
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      08-01-2012, 01:59 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
You don't need to be on a track to drive quickly around a turn or accelerate rapidly. You're talking to a former Lotus owner. Every pound counts, especially when we're talking about nearly 300 of them. Again, just be truthful about your priorities. Mine are focused on driving dynamics, yours are centered around not having a roof. I don't know why you have such a hard time coming to terms with the fact that you did make some level of performance sacrifice.
huh?

His response was yes you do lose a small amount - but chassis flex doesnt come in until 9/10s (guarantee you arent doing that on the street)
and it is about 250lbs (3400 (135 coupe) vs 3650 (135 vert) vs 3900 (335 vert)) - at the lowest point of the car. You coupe guys love to complain about sunroofs at the highest point. Well this is the same concept - only in reverse. The number sounds large but its actual effect is much less than you make it out to be. And so you lose 2/10s to 60 - but is that something that you actually notice day to day?

My first priority is drop top - yes. But a close second is driving dynamics and fun, which I dont feel ive sacrificed in the 135. My autox wins and the smile thats been on my face for four years are a testament to that.

If my only priority was drop top - id be in a Solara.

But, you wouldnt catch me dead in a Mustang, or a Mercedes, or a Corvette vert - because those are floppy noodles compared to the coupe. Im not particularly fond of the 335 vert either, because you can feel the weight of the folded roof in the back - not so with the cloth top.
But, BMW happens to value driving dynamics across the board - its why their verts are so fun to drive and so communicative - without flex. You haters love to throw that word around. The 135 vert chassis is incredibly stiff - and I can prove it too.


You keep wondering why we have these conversations. Let me tell you why in no uncertain terms.


You come into a thread like this with no concept of what were talking about - and then say that our cars are crap and that we only care about a breeze through our hair - as if were vain jackass for wanting to be privy to the enhanced sounds and sensations that topless motoring offers.

Thats total BS and its very insulting.




And honestly, if your first and only priority was driving dynamics - youd still be driving the lotus. And speaking of driving dynamics, didnt you bad mouth Miatas the other week?
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      08-01-2012, 02:02 PM   #62
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Quote:
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You don't need to be on a track to drive quickly around a turn or accelerate rapidly. You're talking to a former Lotus owner.
Exactly. For the 3000 Lotus owners out there maybe it matters but to the other 99.9999999999% of drivers two tenths of a second (or whatever it is) 0-60 and a couple fractions on the skidpad is meaningless 99.99999999% of the time.
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      08-01-2012, 03:15 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
You keep wondering why we have these conversations. Let me tell you why in no uncertain terms.

You come into a thread like this with no concept of what were talking about - and then say that our cars are crap and that we only care about a breeze through our hair - as if were vain jackass for wanting to be privy to the enhanced sounds and sensations that topless motoring offers.

Thats total BS and its very insulting.
I never said anything insulting, nor did I call your cars crap, nor did I say that you only care about the breeze through your hair. You're insecurities are forcing that leap. I only said that you are giving up a degree of performance in "wanting to be privy to the enhanced sounds and sensations that topless motoring offers." You're taking that as an insult but it is not intended as one. Hell, Pangloss said essentially the same thing earlier in the thread but you didn't take that as an insult at all (maybe because he also owns a vert?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
And honestly, if your first and only priority was driving dynamics - youd still be driving the lotus. And speaking of driving dynamics, didnt you bad mouth Miatas the other week?
I am not driving a Lotus because it was a 3rd vehicle and we moved to a complex with only two parking spaces. I also never claimed it to be my first and only priority. Please focus closely on the next sentence: I had to sacrifice some level of driving dynamics in order to find the car that met my priorities. This is the same thing you do when choosing the convertible option. Why are you fighting that? Just own it and be happy with it!

Also, I never bad-mouthed Miatas at all. I think they're great. What I did say is that they're the most raced car in the world because of their low running costs and level of support and not because they're convertibles.
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      08-01-2012, 03:30 PM   #64
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Quote:
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Exactly. For the 3000 Lotus owners out there maybe it matters but to the other 99.9999999999% of drivers two tenths of a second (or whatever it is) 0-60 and a couple fractions on the skidpad is meaningless 99.99999999% of the time.
I have no trouble admitting my priorities. My whole point is that there are some of us who put open air driving on the "do not want" side of the chart and others who put it on the "must have" side. The arguments start when people try to deny or get overly sensitive about the ramifications of those decisions.
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      08-01-2012, 05:26 PM   #65
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One other thing...I ended up going with a vert because with the top down the smallish interior feels a bit bigger and it helped me "fool" my wife into thinking it was "roomy". Haha. Also my kids (4&5) love it! I also agree...with the top down WOT is intoxicating!

I will also say that the coupe/vert debate is quite interesting and amusing. I don't think most if any people would argue that for pure performance a closed fixed roof coupe is best for all those things mentioned...rigidity, weight etc. But THIS particular vert IMO doesn't give up too much to the coupe and just adds a slightly different flavor to an otherwise outstanding dish. Now if I was buying a Ferarri, Porsche 997, M3...that's a different story.

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      08-01-2012, 08:45 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Again, just be truthful about your priorities. Mine are focused on driving dynamics, yours are centered around not having a roof.
I don't know why you have such a hard time coming to terms with the fact that you did make some level of performance sacrifice.
I (we) have been truthful, and the truth is my priorities are also first and foremost on driving dynamics. That's why I own a 1er.
The fact that it's a 'vert is a bonus (for me). The so-called "performance sacrifice" between a 'vert and a hardtop is so miniscule
it's laughable. And yet, that's the basis for your argument. That somehow, as a DD, I lose the ability to "drive (as) quickly around a
turn or accelerate (as) rapidly" as a hardtop. As was already pointed out, unless you're driving like a psycho banshee on residential
streets, you gain nothing over a 'vert. On the track? Sure. But your car doesn't live on the track.

"Coming to terms"? Seriously?

Uncle already.
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