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[shah269]

Are we doing it wrong? Going bigger and sticker? Maybe we need to go skinny and cheep?

I was just watching the Top Gear review of the new Toyota Subaru sports car, the RFD or whatever the heck they are calling it.
Jeremy had a really good line regarding how the Toyota was fitted with Prious sized tires and how that allowed the car to be “fun” and more controlled?
It really got me thinking. Of 1k 135’s sold only 10 will ever see the track and of the 10 only 1 will actually be driven to it’s limit.
And the same can be said about our day to day driving. 99/100 you are just putsing along and all you really need is a bit of lateral grip in the wet.
So why are we investing massive amounts of money on this massive patches of high end run tight expensive rubber?
What would happen if we stayed in the same radius but went with a thinner tire with a tad bit more side wall and a harder compound?
Thoughts?
And more importantly viability and price?

[3002 tii]

Your statistics are probably a little off, I'm sure more 135i owners find themselves on the track and most eventually will get to the point of driving at the limit. With that said fun is fun but it's not necessarily fast. To go fast you need power and traction. Sure keeping weight down helps as demonstrated by the BRZ/FRS but even that cars' motor is underpowered. There's a limit to how fast you can get that car around the track. A better example of a light / fast(er) car is the s2000 IMO.

[BrokenVert]

People overtire their cars all the time. People on the internet tend to forget that handling != grip.

[128Convertibleguy]

I'm considering the tradeoffs of slightly narrower, 2-3 pounds lighter tires. Less ultimate grip, better ride, more consistent handling on rough pavement. Cosmetics are not a big deal to me.

Any experience or opinions?

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

I'm considering the tradeoffs of slightly narrower, 2-3 pounds lighter tires. Less ultimate grip, better ride, more consistent handling on rough pavement. Cosmetics are not a big deal to me.

Any experience or opinions?

I wouldn't go narrower. These cars need more rubber, both in n52/54/55 trim. If anything I would go wider rubber up front and opt for lighter rims. My Z4 has a n52 motor and I find the 255 square setup to be perfect for handling.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

I wouldn't go narrower. These cars need more rubber, both in n52/54/55 trim. If anything I would go wider rubber up front and opt for lighter rims. My Z4 has a n52 motor and I find the 255 square setup to be perfect for handling.

Im more than happy with my 245 square

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by shah269

So why are we investing massive amounts of money on this massive patches of high end run tight expensive rubber?

The same reason people are running 380hp tuned cars capable of near 175mph top end on city streets. jk

I dont suggest running thinner tires than the factory specs - especially when tuned. Unexpected traction loss can be very dangerous and unpredictable and has led to quite a few crashes. I dont think you need the widest rubber possible and do feel their is a point of diminishing return but with a 135i, especially tuned, i recommend at least a 245 in the rear.

[new2the3]

After running 225 front and 255 rear on the stock rims for 3 years I decided to try going back to the stock 215 and 245 sizes on the new Hankook evo2 (k120). Let's just say my car drives and handles the best it ever has in the 5+ years I've owned it.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by new2the3

After running 225 front and 255 rear on the stock rims for 3 years I decided to try going back to the stock 215 and 245 sizes on the new Hankook evo2 (k120). Let's just say my car drives and handles the best it ever has in the 5+ years I've owned it.

Same rim, same suspension, same tire make/model?

[128Convertibleguy]

Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes

I dont suggest running thinner tires than the factory specs

Not doing that. Just a bit less than customary around here. I've got a 128, which is 205 square or 205/225 with the sport suspension. Thinking about 225 square. Light wheels are a given, thinking about the benefits of an additional 2-3 pound weight reduction per corner with the tires. I realize there'll be less ultimate grip, but I don't drive at 10/10 on the street, and I don't track. I'm most interested in response, ride, and more predictable handling over bumps. Things I can use all the time.

[ilikebmxbikes]

Originally Posted by 128Convertibleguy

Not doing that. Just a bit less than customary around here. I've got a 128, which is 205 square or 205/225 with the sport suspension. Thinking about 225 square. Light wheels are a given, thinking about the benefits of an additional 2-3 pound weight reduction per corner with the tires. I realize there'll be less ultimate grip, but I don't drive at 10/10 on the street, and I don't track.

if that is the case you would be fine running thinner tires. But if you are just driving ont he street, dont track, or care for ultimate grip, should a 2-3 weight reduction be your motivation for going thinner? 2-3lb weight reduction will do nothing for your style of driving and you will not feel much at all.

My advice - if you are getting light weight wheels and drive like you do, it will be for looks. If you want the car to look good with nicer wheels you will likely need wider rubber due to wheel manufactures making wheels in the sizes that are demanded. And more often than not, slightly wider is demanded. But when buying new wheels and a new set of tires, the difference between the thinner vs the wider wont be much.

Brand and style of tire should reflect your needs. If you drive like you say, you would be fine on some hankook v12's, yoko S drives or similar.

[new2the3]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

Same rim, same suspension, same tire make/model?

Same rims, same suspension.

Stock: Dunlop RFT
Old tires: Bridgestone RE760 Sport 225F, 255R
Current: stock sizes, Hankook K120.

Ride quality, smooth, quiet, turn in, handling, grip etc.

I have zero complaints going back to stock sizes. I am also noticing improved mpg, acceleration and deceleration. These tires only weigh 19lbs front, 21lbs rear.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by new2the3

After running 225 front and 255 rear on the stock rims for 3 years I decided to try going back to the stock 215 and 245 sizes on the new Hankook evo2 (k120). Let's just say my car drives and handles the best it ever has in the 5+ years I've owned it.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by new2the3

After running 225 front and 255 rear on the stock rims for 3 years I decided to try going back to the stock 215 and 245 sizes on the new Hankook evo2 (k120). Let's just say my car drives and handles the best it ever has in the 5+ years I've owned it.

You do realize that compound, mold, patch size, sidewall construction, ply construction, all this goes into how the tire grips and handles. This especially applies when changing brands. Lets factor in changing "Generations" of tires as well. Nevermind, you just cant compare old tires to new tires. And no, you don't remember how the car felt when those other tires were new.

You might as well be comparing apples to zebras.

Note:
This is assuming you are running proper tire sizes for the wheels on the car. Over or undersized tires have major drawbacks.

OP: Toyota/Subaru puts small wheels and tires on that car to increase dead cat space and make it easier to break the rear end loose to have fun at low speeds with low power on the street/track.

[Kgolf31]

Handling and ultimate grip goes beyond tires.

Do I think you can overtire a 128/135? Nope.

I run 245 squared and ultimate the car needs more tire up front, I'm still encountering understeer issues and the rear doesn't want to rotate. Still have to play with damping adjustments to settle the car, but it is a working progress.

Go lighter wheels (I run APEX ARC8s).

In the end, I'm here to go fast...not to swing the rear out in a fun fashion.

[Pothole]

It's simple, if you don't track the car there is no need for wide tires. However, if you tuned your 135 it's probably best to go just a little wider. Especially in the front. Just so you don't get surprised by understeer when approaching a corner too fast.

I have a 125i and my grip with stock tires is spot on for street use.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Pothole

It's simple, if you don't track the car there is no need for wide tires. However, if you tuned your 135 it's probably best to go just a little wider. Especially in the front. Just so you don't get surprised by understeer when approaching a corner too fast.

I have a 125i and my grip with stock tires is spot on for street use.

Spot on.

Much like suspension setups, it is all about intended use. Lots of people forget and just assume throwing down more money will make it better.

[Eyeman]

If narrower tires help, why do so many critic love the 1M but hate the 135? To me, if you want to improve your 135, just try to make it more like a 1M.

Some of it depends on what your accustomed to also. My main other car is a 240hp Porsche with much better but stiffer handling and the same size tires as on most 135s.

[Pothole]

Originally Posted by Eyeman

If narrower tires help, why do so many critic love the 1M but hate the 135? To me, if you want to improve your 135, just try to make it more like a 1M.

Some of it depends on what your accustomed to also. My main other car is a 240hp Porsche with much better but stiffer handling and the same size tires as on most 135s.

The 1M has a different differential and wider tracking. It's not because of tires why the 1M is so loved.

[135iam]

I came from a S2000 with 255's all around before my 135i. It rotated exceptionally well. Coming to a stock 135i I felt like the BMW was a fat pig in the handling department.
Currently running 245 front and 265 rears on 1" wider than stock wheels with -2.5 front camber and -1.5 rear. The balance of the car is drastically improved for street driving. I'm sure 245's all around would be better (for balance) but I wanted all the help I could get putting power down running a tune and E85.

Do I drive my car near the limit on the streets? Not often, but I really like is that I can drive it 70-80% without howling the tires and rolling over the stock soft suspension as the cars limits have been significantly raised vs stock.

I drive my car (stock tune) in the winter with 225's all around. The balance is great, but the overall grip is lacking for such a heavy car and I will wear thru tires quickly.

[yllwwgn]

1. No reason to ever go NARROWER than OEM tires on any car... maybe ever. (Winter/studded tires notwithstanding ). Cars were ENGINEERED a certain way, and $$$$$ was spent by said manufacturer for the best "all-around" dynamics.

2. As far as WIDER... totally different animal. Way too many factors that come into play, like driving style, purpose of vehicle, power levels, etc. etc. It's why some people run 225 Hoosiers on cars with 150HP, and some people run Walmart-X-Brand tire on their 400HP rwd sedans. Some people just like the look of wide steam-rollers under their fenders... to each their own. As far as wider, there is no right/wrong, just depends on the individual.

And yes, I've ran a narrower tire on the rear before, on a FWD car at an autocross... and yes it was fun But for the street? Totally pointless and dangerous.

[sparkyblue]

Originally Posted by 135iam

I came from a S2000 with 255's all around before my 135i. It rotated exceptionally well. Coming to a stock 135i I felt like the BMW was a fat pig in the handling department.
Currently running 245 front and 265 rears on 1" wider than stock wheels with -2.5 front camber and -1.5 rear. The balance of the car is drastically improved for street driving. I'm sure 245's all around would be better (for balance) but I wanted all the help I could get putting power down running a tune and E85.

Do I drive my car near the limit on the streets? Not often, but I really like is that I can drive it 70-80% without howling the tires and rolling over the stock soft suspension as the cars limits have been significantly raised vs stock.

I drive my car (stock tune) in the winter with 225's all around. The balance is great, but the overall grip is lacking for such a heavy car and I will wear thru tires quickly.

I love S2000's. Truthfully, they are the only convertible I like. That hardtop is a must though!!

I plan on running a similar setup to you, 245/35/18's on the front with -2.5 camber (dinan plates & M3 control arms) 8.5inch +38 & 265's in the back on a 10inch +50 wheel with -2.5 camber.

Glad to hear that you are liking the setup. May I ask, why did you go for -1.5 camber in the rear? And also, what toe specs do you have all around?

I was planning on going 0 toe on the front & minor toe in on the rears. I have some toe in now, and I think that's part of the cause to why my car feels like it doesn't want to turn.

Can't wait to get all the parts + suspension dialed in!