Loaner Vehicle Report: X1 xdrive35i

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by GR1P

I agree man and its why I entered this thread. The OP came off like a petty douchebag.

You're the one resorting to name calling and I'm petty? Look in the mirror, dude.

[edisapimp]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

It's really amazing how this thread got under the skin of some of you 135i owners. I wasn't bashing your car in the slightest. I was simply giving my experience of what it was like to drive an 8AT X1 with N55, and wondering what I was missing. I acknowledged that there were plenty of differences between an X1 and a 135i, and y'all mentioned a few more that I hadn't thought of. If anyone took this thread as a "128i vs 135i" topic, then you're projecting. My criticism was directed against the X1, which for some strange reason many of you took personally.

Bob, I don't really know you, but you seem to be pretty well-liked in the community, and I respect you as a long-time member, so I'll be delicate here. Despite how you are backpeddaling right now, your original post was pretty much a segue into the comparison. Here is what you said:

"Is the 135i the same? Kind of a lazy, lumbering beast? I honestly feel like my lighter, modded 128i is more fun, but of course some haters will be here to tell me I'm wrong."

Anytime you put 135i and 128i in the same paragraph (with the possible exception of saying that the 135i is in every way a better car than the 128i ), you're going to get the same results from this community. The answer I think you got to your question ("Is the 135i the same?") is a resounding no. And if the point you were ultimately trying to make was that your modded 128i is more fun than an X1, then your point is taken - and also probably one of the most easily surmised things ever posted here. If, however, the point you are trying to make is that "[You] honestly feel like [your] lighter modded 128i is more fun [than a 135i]," then you've opened the door to the discussion of 135i vs 128i, which no one, especially me, wants to have.

You certainly didn't get under my skin. I'll continue to have random monkey sex with the women everyone stares at, and you can continue going home to your wife.

Happy motoring!

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

It's really amazing how this thread got under the skin of some of you 135i owners. I wasn't bashing your car in the slightest. I was simply giving my experience of what it was like to drive an 8AT X1 with N55, and wondering what I was missing. I acknowledged that there were plenty of differences between an X1 and a 135i, and y'all mentioned a few more that I hadn't thought of. If anyone took this thread as a "128i vs 135i" topic, then you're projecting. My criticism was directed against the X1, which for some strange reason many of you took personally.

a gentle reminder of what you said...

"Is the 135i the same? Kind of a lazy, lumbering beast? I honestly feel like my lighter, modded 128i is more fun, but of course some haters will be here to tell me I'm wrong."

the 135i is the same car as yours with a different engine and upgraded performance. it's not a mystery like an blue elephant that has landed out of space which is so foreign to you.....

[blinded]

If I were shopping, I'd be interested in an x1.

[Dylanize]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

oh and i'm so fucking sick of these 128 vs. 135 debates...completely pointless.

Haha, don't go to the e90 forums. We had weekly 328i vs 335i and 335i vs M3 arguments...

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by edisapimp

Anytime you put 135i and 128i in the same paragraph (with the possible exception of saying that the 135i is in every way a better car than the 128i ), you're going to get the same results from this community. The answer I think you got to your question ("Is the 135i the same?") is a resounding no. And if the point you were ultimately trying to make was that your modded 128i is more fun than an X1, then your point is taken - and also probably one of the most easily surmised things ever posted here. If, however, the point you are trying to make is that "[You] honestly feel like [your] lighter modded 128i is more fun [than a 135i]," then you've opened the door to the discussion of 135i vs 128i, which no one, especially me, wants to have.

I appreciate what you're saying, but by your own admission you had to make multiple substitutions to arrive at the conclusion that I felt like my 128i was better/more fun than a 135i, which is not something I ever said. But since you mentioned it, in some ways, it might be - I don't know, I've never driven a 135i. But I've had 135i owners drive my car and tell me it felt more dialed in and tossable than their cars. Fun is a subjective concept. Courses for horses and all that.

My main point was that the N55 that I drove, in an 8AT X1, felt a teeny little bit boring. It certainly felt powerful (the "beast" part) but it did not feel particularly eager (the "lazy, lumbering" part). This genuinely surprised me, which is why I asked if it felt different on the 135i. Now, obviously the 135i's weight, gearing, shift logic, and quicker shift times will all contribute to a more athletic feel - but I wanted to know about the throttle lag, so I asked, because I genuinely don't know.

At least one N55 owner said that he felt his DCT was a little boring outside of manual mode. So I'm obviously not alone in that criticism. One of the most butthurt guys in this thread is even running a SprintBooster - so obviously he thought the throttle lag was enough of an issue that he spent money trying to fix it.

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

a gentle reminder of what you said...

"Is the 135i the same? Kind of a lazy, lumbering beast? I honestly feel like my lighter, modded 128i is more fun, but of course some haters will be here to tell me I'm wrong."

Okay, I can kind of see the confusion. But I was calling the X1 a "lazy, lumbering beast" while asking IF the 135i felt the same to you guys. Again, at least one N55 owner thinks his car can be kind of boring in full-auto mode, while another felt the need to spend money in order to attempt to correct perceived throttle lag.

The X1 xdrive35i is undoubtedly powerful, but I stand by my opinion that it wasn't very much fun to drive (at least not mated to an 8AT) and felt not-very-responsive. You guys are kind of hyper-focused on the "lazy, lumbering" part while ignoring the "beast" part.

If you're offended by my criticism of the N55 in this particular application, I wonder about that. Do you lack the insight and self-critical capacity to allow for minor deficiencies in your chosen engine, even when it's in another (less sporting) vehicle?

Originally Posted by IEDEI

the 135i is the same car as yours with a different engine and upgraded performance. it's not a mystery like an blue elephant that has landed out of space which is so foreign to you.....

I don't even know what this means...

[Bimmer-Bob]

One more thing - I was by no means trying to stir up a hornets' nest when I started this thread. I was hoping for more of a civilized discourse (which some members understood and responded to).

But the fact is, despite everyone claiming to hate the 128i/135i arguments, I think in reality some 135i owners still feel so superior deep down that they truly can't fathom an N52 owner driving an N55-equipped vehicle and coming away just kind of "meh." In fact, some of you can't believe it so much, that you think I must be trolling you, even when I'm clearly not. All it takes is the mere suggestion of imperfection to bring you out of the woodwork.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

Okay, I can kind of see the confusion. But I was calling the X1 a "lazy, lumbering beast" while asking IF the 135i felt the same to you guys. Again, at least one N55 owner thinks his car can be kind of boring in full-auto mode, while another felt the need to spend money in order to attempt to correct perceived throttle lag.

The X1 xdrive35i is undoubtedly powerful, but I stand by my opinion that it wasn't very much fun to drive (at least not mated to an 8AT) and felt not-very-responsive. You guys are kind of hyper-focused on the "lazy, lumbering" part while ignoring the "beast" part.

I have driven both (own the 135i and had x1 28i and 35i multi-day loaners) and they are completely different. The DCT in the 135i does have a slight lag every once in a while but it's not the same issue, it only happens 1-2 times a week, and generally under very specific conditions (slowly decelerating to <5mph and then jumping back on the throttle hard) 99% of the time the throttle is as responsive as my s2000. But really the issue with your assumption is that the x1 35i and the 135i only share an engine. The transmissions are very different (8AT vs 7-DCT) and dramatically change the driving experience. And as IEDEI will tell you, I'm not really even a fan of the 135i. I've also had a 128i loaner and it was exactly the same but a little slower and a mushy auto tranny

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by fcman

But really the issue with your assumption is the x1 35i and the 135i only share an engine. The transmissions are very different (8AT vs 7-DCT) and dramatically change the driving experience. And as IEDEI will tell you, I'm not really even a fan of the 135i.

Understood - this is more what I was expecting to hear. Honestly I didn't give enough thought to the transmission when I composed the OP, but I know from experience that the auto N52 loaners I've received in the past bear little resemblance in feel to my own MT car.

I think loaner cars tend to leave a sour taste in most people's mouths as they are typically AT, non-Sport Package, and very "beige" in spec. I think I was expecting to be wowed by the engine despite all of that, and really just wasn't. Also, I mostly just drove the car in traffic in town and on the highway - maybe it would've "come alive" more in, say, an AX setting.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

Also, I mostly just drove the car in traffic in town and on the highway - maybe it would've "come alive" more in, say, an AX setting.

Yeah possibly, I autox my 135i and that's the only environment where I really like the car. I don't know if BMW's software is really that good where it knows when you want to be aggressive, but it really feels extra sharp when you drive the absolute nuts off of it.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

At least one N55 owner said that he felt his DCT was a little boring outside of manual mode.

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

Again, at least one N55 owner thinks his car can be kind of boring in full-auto mode

Here's what I said:

Originally Posted by EvenEsteban

I do know if I drive my car in total automatic mode, it is pretty boring.

As some of you may or may not know, I would prefer (and have mostly driven) a car with a manual transmission over an automatic or DCT, but can't work a clutch any longer because of an injury.

What this means is that in my heart, I am a manual transmission guy, always will be, and will always prefer to row my own. Even if that means the best I can do is to take a boring (to me) automatic and put it in manual mode and shift away. Those boring (again, to me) auto transmission cars could be an X1, or a 128i, or even a 135i. Being able to shift yourself makes a car come alive IMO.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

It's really amazing how this thread got under the skin of some of you 135i owners. I wasn't bashing your car in the slightest. I was simply giving my experience of what it was like to drive an 8AT X1 with N55, and wondering what I was missing. I acknowledged that there were plenty of differences between an X1 and a 135i, and y'all mentioned a few more that I hadn't thought of. If anyone took this thread as a "128i vs 135i" topic, then you're projecting. My criticism was directed against the X1, which for some strange reason many of you took personally.

Bob its totaly ok, for you to share your thoughts on a BMW platform or engine. I know you were just trying to share your observations of the X1 x35 engine with us. Some people can't take critis

BMW has their anti-tuner sw program that really quiets the N54/N55 engine at idle and off idle. They figured out a way to reduce(noticeably) the injector noise(sounds like a diesel at idle) and also they keep the duty cycle to the wastegates opne until 3,500 rpms. Many people don't notice this... but some do. Many of those people are on our forum here. Its a subtle difference but very noticeable. Basically it feels like you have to press down 4/5ths throttle to get medium speed acelleration. Cars that left the factory without this anti tuner sw had the same acelleration but at only 1/5 a throttle input.

Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147781


As for those who can't take critism, you can either behave here on our forum or suffer the consequences.

Please think of others before posting and be respectfull. IF you have nothing nice to say... don't post.

Dackel

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by GR1P

You're wrong buddy and obviously have zero experience with these units. It isnt the flash tables, it's the throttle mapping. at least on my car.

But don't worry, it's okay. You'll learn some day, keep trying.



edit: I have a 6mt, a dct or auto may be an entirely different set of problems.

You're not even wrong. Throttle behavior is controlled via DME flash. Values are contained in the throttle tables. This is why when you reflash your car, the throttle behavior changes (absurdly simple example).

Your sprintbooster/similar device modulates the PEDAL signal, it does not change ANYTHING other than the % pedal signal that is sent. See also, 50% pedal may equal 100% signal with the device, depending on the setting. It is incapable of changing hard coded lag values which delay the pedal position signal from the pedal to the actuation of the throttle blade.

This was confirmed years ago. No need to spread misinformation on these things. Like I said, if you like it, great. But don't tell people it does something it cannot possibly do.

And, while I really love the insults (gives me cause to get up in the morning, ), let's leave that bullshit for E90Post, k?

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Bob its totaly ok, for you to share your thoughts on a BMW platform or engine. I know you were just trying to share your observations of the X1 x35 engine with us. Some people can't take critis

BMW has their anti-tuner sw program that really quiets the N54/N55 engine at idle and off idle. They figured out a way to reduce(noticeably) the injector noise(sounds like a diesel at idle) and also they keep the duty cycle to the wastegates opne until 3,500 rpms. Many people don't notice this... but some do. Many of those people are on our forum here. Its a subtle difference but very noticeable. Basically it feels like you have to press down 4/5ths throttle to get medium speed acelleration. Cars that left the factory without this anti tuner sw had the same acelleration but at only 1/5 a throttle input.

Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147781


As for those who can't take critism, you can either behave here on our forum or suffer the consequences.

Please think of others before posting and be respectfull. IF you have nothing nice to say... don't post.

Dackel

Thanks Dackel!

Interesting that the throttle lag is a known issue, and that it's something BMW engineered after the fact to correct another issue (wastegate rattle). I don't follow the N54/N55 threads too much, so I wasn't aware of this.