Hydrolock!!!

[Lester]

Here is what the owner's manual says - up to a foot of water at walking speed (under 5 mph) is ok.

[Russo]

i don't see how the dealer can convince people to fork out 9-28k for a new motor... i would bring it to a performance shop and have them rebuild it...

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Frimmelnojerz

you understand that theres a degree of bad luck mixed with stupidity to this whole thing IF it's true, right? i wouldn't be concerned about it unless you have some self control problems or are just flat out dumb. i live in florida for the school year and have never had any sort of problem with getting water in anything. actually, the only time i had an issue with a car in water was in my S4 in hoboken new jersey during a storm after work. and i was CRAWLING through the puddle. you and every other human with a properly functioning brain will not be in danger. i hardly think bmw has designed the intake to just suck in water like that.

I spent 7 years in Palm Beach County (up until 2007), and I've hit puddles on I95 deep enough to cause this, with no warning. It wasn't a result of stupidity, or being dumb. It was a result of palm frawns getting into poorly designed drains (got ahead and TRY to tell me you think S. FL has a good drainage system...I dare you). It just doesn't take much to clog a drain and cause this in FL.

You can think what you want about the design, but if you look at it it's painfully obvious that if you hit enough water for it to splash up on the hood, it's IS going to get to the airfilter. There's nothing to stop it, it's a direct path.

[DarrenJ]

17
New
11
Reman
That equals 28k.
If ur paying 17k for labor or 11k, ur anus is hurting and very very swollen!

[frimmelnojerz]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I spent 7 years in Palm Beach County (up until 2007), and I've hit puddles on I95 deep enough to cause this, with no warning. It wasn't a result of stupidity, or being dumb. It was a result of palm frawns getting into poorly designed drains (got ahead and TRY to tell me you think S. FL has a good drainage system...I dare you). It just doesn't take much to clog a drain and cause this in FL.

You can think what you want about the design, but if you look at it it's painfully obvious that if you hit enough water for it to splash up on the hood, it's IS going to get to the airfilter. There's nothing to stop it, it's a direct path.

i never said anything about quality of drainage. did you ever hydrolock one of your cars though?

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Frimmelnojerz

i never said anything about quality of drainage. did you ever hydrolock one of your cars though?

No, you said a person has to be stupid to get in this situation, and I disagree with you.

I've never had one of my cars hydrolock, but I never had one with a set of intakes in the grill either. That's sort of the point. This design would seem to make this more likely to happen than cars that have the intake tucked inside the fender cavity. I'm just not so sure it's a chance I'm going to take.

[yanks4285]

Originally Posted by 135iUSN

are you crazy? - sue the city - lord...

In my book, should you try to sue the city, - declined !

Reason:

raining -
going 10 miles over speed limit -
raining - (one should reduce speed - not increase it)

Sorry about the situation, but if I were the insurance adjuster, I'd decline it as well. People need to be held accountable for their actions...and this move was sheer recklessness - so glad it didn't cause an accident or death to an innocent sole/family member.

Furthermore, we all would like the entire story - something is just not right!

i am glad you weren't my adjuster!!!Going 10 over in our type of vehicle is no problem if you know how to drive(if you can't do it/are scared,then drive a Camry).The only reason i was going at the speed i was going is because it us a road with no house and barely any traffic.With constant down pours in the summer you never know when you will encounter that "Puddle".By the way.....I was accountable......FOR MY DEDUCTIBLE :smile:!!

[mynew135]

Originally Posted by 135iUSN

are you crazy? - sue the city - lord...

In my book, should you try to sue the city, - declined !

Reason:

raining -
going 10 miles over speed limit -
raining - (one should reduce speed - not increase it)

Sorry about the situation, but if I were the insurance adjuster, I'd decline it as well. People need to be held accountable for their actions...and this move was sheer recklessness - so glad it didn't cause an accident or death to an innocent sole/family member.

Furthermore, we all would like the entire story - something is just not right!

As an insurance adjuster for the last 10 years, there are very few things you can do to a car, where the "adjuster" or company can or will deny your claim. There is no exclusion for stupidity or carelessness. You may get a rate increase come next renewal.

I hydrolocked an 82 VW Rabbit, being stupid, trying to drive home slowly in 2-3 feet of water. Yes, 2-3 feet of water. Car locked up, took it home, drained the oil. Looked like chocolate milk. Car made a ticking sound from that point on, but kept on driving. But that was an $1800 vehicle, not a BMW.

Sorry about your luck.

[lambammm]

Originally Posted by jerm777

As an insurance adjuster for the last 10 years, there are very few things you can do to a car, where the "adjuster" or company can or will deny your claim. There is no exclusion for stupidity or carelessness. You may get a rate increase come next renewal.

I hydrolocked an 82 VW Rabbit, being stupid, trying to drive home slowly in 2-3 feet of water. Yes, 2-3 feet of water. Car locked up, took it home, drained the oil. Looked like chocolate milk. Car made a ticking sound from that point on, but kept on driving. But that was an $1800 vehicle, not a BMW.

Sorry about your luck.

you tell em, some of these know it alls think once you hydrolock an engine you can't bring it back to life. in all of your faces, so far we know a 325i, a civic and a rabbit can be revived.

[Lester]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

No, you said a person has to be stupid to get in this situation, and I disagree with you.

I've never had one of my cars hydrolock, but I never had one with a set of intakes in the grill either. That's sort of the point. This design would seem to make this more likely to happen than cars that have the intake tucked inside the fender cavity. I'm just not so sure it's a chance I'm going to take.

It is easy to see how this can happen when you take a close look at the front of the car. If you were to hit standing water over 6 inches, the front of the car will act as a water deflector. Some of the water will deflect upwards, over the bumper and right into the grill in an upwards direction. This also explains why one owner had this happen when an SUV came towards him in the railway parking lot. It must have created a wave, which in combination with the standing water he was travelling in reulted in a 'tsunami' effect, spashing water up over the bumper and into the grill - a direct shot into the air intake. Since the air intakes are designed to capture the most air, guess what, they will also capture the most water. We need a modification to the air intake that will close those intakes if standing water is detected. Perhaps something from the plumbing dept at Home Depot?

[Lester]

Over the weekend I will do a 'water' test using my 1/18 1 Series Coupe model in the bathtub to simulate what could be happening. (I will remove the rubber duckies first)

[lewandowski46]

I have to add my $.02.

First off, think about how little water you need to hydro lock an engine. These engines are 3.0L, so we'll go with 3000cc's, since 1 L = 1000cc's. The engine also uses a 10.7:1 compression ratio(or 10.2 i dunno really, i'm looking into buying one, either way the compression is arbitrary in this discussion). 3000cc's divided by 6 cylinders, means max volume at bottom of the stroke, of 500cc's. 10.7:1 compression means at the top of the stroke there's only 46cc's of room inside the cylinder.

For compairson purposes, 1 cup of water, is 236cc's of water. That means 46 cc's is a little more that 1/6 of a cup of water. This is a TINY amount. If your engine managed to suck up 1cc more of water than 46cc's, it will instantly stop.


Now knowing all of this, just because you hydrolock an engine, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a complete goner. If your idle in a parking lot, doing 2000 rpm with no load, and it locks, the engine will just sieze and stop working. The plugs will need to be removed, the engine will have to be cranked over all kinds of fun stuff. More than likely, this engine will be fine.

Second scenario, your accelerating from a light, the engine is blazing at 6500rpm's, full boost. You suck up a healthy portion of 50cc's of water. Well, the engine instantly siezes, but laws of motion and inertia say, well screw this, i want to keep moving. The crank wants to continue to turn. Boom the headgasket blows, piston rods shatter, valvetrain goes to hell, etc etc etc.


There's a lot more than meets the eye. IMHO, if you can hydrolock a brand new vehicle, no matter the make, in 6 brief inches of water, then it's a poor design.

[Noize]

I have dual intakes, and the scoop is detached from the filter element now. I was driving in a crazy downpour this weekend with zero issue.

I have hydrolocked a car, but I won't be hydrolocking this one.

[Lester]

Originally Posted by Lester

It is easy to see how this can happen when you take a close look at the front of the car. If you were to hit standing water over 6 inches, the front of the car will act as a water deflector. Some of the water will deflect upwards, over the bumper and right into the grill in an upwards direction. This also explains why one owner had this happen when an SUV came towards him in the railway parking lot. It must have created a wave, which in combination with the standing water he was travelling in reulted in a 'tsunami' effect, spashing water up over the bumper and into the grill - a direct shot into the air intake. Since the air intakes are designed to capture the most air, guess what, they will also capture the most water. We need a modification to the air intake that will close those intakes if standing water is detected. Perhaps something from the plumbing dept at Home Depot?

I did the bathtub test this evening with my 1/18 1 series model. Just as I suspected, in water up to the center of the wheels, (about 12 inches to scale) - the water quite spectacularly plows up the bumper and right into the grille. It's hard to say how fast to scale I was pushing it, but it didn't take much speed at all.

Be forwarned, Chris Bangle is no boat designer. Basically, what you have is a water sucking pig. The important message here is - stay dry. Do not attempt any driving at all in anything over a couple inches of water, unless you are at idle speed. Or be prepared to spring for a new engine.

[Lester]

Originally Posted by Alpinweiß

I have dual intakes, and the scoop is detached from the filter element now. I was driving in a crazy downpour this weekend with zero issue.

I have hydrolocked a car, but I won't be hydrolocking this one.

You could drive in a downpour without danger, it only happens when the water is deep enough to be plowed up into the grille by the bumper. The water actually gathers and flows up towards the grille not unlike a small river. This will create quite a hydrosatatic pressure right at the air intakes, which are sucking air, so they will quite gladly suck water too. I suppose it would be pointless to give this information to BMW. The manual says to drive in water only at walking speed.

[ronnyek]

I am now proud to present the solution to this problem...

also doubles as a cold air intake! oh SNAP

[Lester]

Genius, pure Genius!

[lambammm]

everyone has heard of a snorkel before

[Mega Man]

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but for those of us living in Southern CA, you know it's been raining a lot lately.

That said, I've driven through some small "rivers" myself now, some I'm sure were probably slightly deeper than 1ft. (stupid I know, but couldn't be avoided, it's dark, so dark you can't even see the painted lanes on the road, and the water blends in perfectly until you hit it). The water in my driveway was high enough that I didn't want to pull into my driveway, or leave it on the street. In fact, the day after it stopped raining, we had some CalTrans out here sanding down the curb to help with water flow.

Regardless, I did drive through some deep water, and I did pull up into my driveway which I'm sure was deeper than 1 ft. I also followed several cars kicking up water and spray back, right onto my car, probably into the grill.

The point to all this is: think about how hot your car is running. If water splashed through your grill, and somehow into your intake, even filter, your engine is running hot and I'm sure the water would've evaporated before getting anywhere near your intake manifold.

For you to have hydrolocked your car would really take a lot of water. More than spray back. I'm not calling anyone a liar, but I'm not calling anyone for dinner either.

[ronnyek]

I wouldnt be so sure about the evaporated bit, it is plenty hot, but I think an engine is going to do just fine with small amount of water goign into the intake

[Lester]

If you look at the design of the intakes, you will see that the air is actually entering the engine through the front grill, at it's highest point. It doesn't matter how hot the engine compartment gets. The cars' 'nostrils' are directly exposed to the front of the car. They are right at the top of the grill. Pop your hood, it's easy to see where they end. The engine takes no air from the engine compartment, as it is a sealed system. Check out the photo.

This is a good design (normally), as it gets cool outside air for combustion. Also, the aerodynamics of the car are designed to force air into the 'nostrils' (intakes) - so the car has a 'ram air' intake as standard equipment.

However, should you ever flood the front end of the car with water, enough to effectively place the intakes 'under water' then you will suck water through the intakes instead of air. A certain amount of water as in heavy rain or road splash will be ok. [Similar to a marathon runner running in a rainstorm. But put a facemask full of water over his nostrils and see what happens.]

You can easily flood the front of the car with the right (or wrong) combination of water and speed. The water dams up against the front of the air dam (remember it is only 6" off the ground) and as you go faster, or into deeper water you can build this 'dammed water' to as high as the air intakes. Think of a snow shovel, this is what happens. I noticed this in a bathtub test with my 1/18 scale 135i model. The minute you would get water up against the intakes, they are effectively under water. Hence - hydrolock.

I too, found this thread somewhat unbelieveable until the OP mentioned that hitting the water at 55 mph left a mark halfway up his front bumper. This means he hit water about 12" deep. For sure - at that speed, he forced a big dam of water to flood his grill, and therefore into the intakes.

I know it is all conjecture, but if you look at the design of the intakes, and play with a scale model in a bathtub, you can see what is possibly happening.

[jkp1187]

Interesting post, Lester.

I wonder if removal of the ram-air snorkel would be enough to eliminate this potential problem -- if one was really worried about it?