135i Turbo Engine (N54 / N55) *General Questions Thread*

[bryce]

got a pointless intercooler question? post here plz

[jojo135]

Originally Posted by mineo77

nice, gonna have to put together a DIY for the 135i cause all i ever see is the 335i instructions. I will put that together when Shiv gets me my stuff

Coolingmist has detailed instructions on meth install for 135. It has color pictures also because Dave (owner of coolingmist) installed on his 135.

Look for bmw 135/335 and download instructions from that page. Of course, it is for his kit so if you have/want a different one then it would be different but it will certainly help.

Http://www.coolingmist.com

[BMW86]

What do you guys think of the stett oil cooler?

[bryce]

Originally Posted by BMW86

What do you guys think of the stett oil cooler?

i'm liking it more and more. i don't really have a need for an additional oil cooler at the moment, my car already runs 10-20 degrees cooler because of my intercooler and i don't track my car regularly. it's a great design though and the price looks very reasonable.

[bryce]

Originally Posted by jojo135

Coolingmist has detailed instructions on meth install for 135. It has color pictures also because Dave (owner of coolingmist) installed on his 135.

Look for bmw 135/335 and download instructions from that page. Of course, it is for his kit so if you have/want a different one then it would be different but it will certainly help.

Http://www.coolingmist.com

thanks for the link! the vishnu meth kit is a little more complicated. it's progressive and includes a few extra control boxes, wiring, etc that must be implemented to work with the procede.

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by BMW86

What do you guys think of the stett oil cooler?

It's obviously a big improvement over stock, but the optional low temperature thermostat is controversial. Some people say it's a great idea, others say it's a terrible idea. And you will find the same argument on every high performance car forum on the web. Until I understand it for myself or get advice from someone absolutely authoritative, I'm sticking with the BMW thermostat.

[The1]

Originally Posted by GaryS

It's obviously a big improvement over stock, but the optional low temperature thermostat is controversial. Some people say it's a great idea, others say it's a terrible idea. And you will find the same argument on every high performance car forum on the web. Until I understand it for myself or get advice from someone absolutely authoritative, I'm sticking with the BMW thermostat.

Sticking with stock is a safe plan. The engine was designed to be running at a specific temperature for longevity and emission control.

The argument on both sides is very good, however, if you want to run cooler, why not run cooler by adding parts that will make it cooler and add noticable power gains at the same time?

Also with the oil cooler already there, your oil temperature will be a lot more stable then with the original cooler, so the need for running a cooler thermostat is pretty much already covered by the additional cooling of the cooler.

It seems to me like a lot of people also forget that once a car gets to a certain temperature, both a cooler and stock thermostat will be wide open and providing the exact same amount of cooling. One just takes longer to get to that temperature then the other. Especially with a cooler.

so if you do lots of short runs like Auto-x, that cooler thermostat might be something to look into. but on a track day, there really is no point.... In my opinion.

If anyone sees any misinformation in my post please correct me. My cooling system knowledge isn't as good as when it comes to other parameters of a car.

[bryce]

ttt

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by GaryS

It's obviously a big improvement over stock, but the optional low temperature thermostat is controversial. Some people say it's a great idea, others say it's a terrible idea. And you will find the same argument on every high performance car forum on the web. Until I understand it for myself or get advice from someone absolutely authoritative, I'm sticking with the BMW thermostat.

Originally Posted by The1

Sticking with stock is a safe plan. The engine was designed to be running at a specific temperature for longevity and emission control.

The argument on both sides is very good, however, if you want to run cooler, why not run cooler by adding parts that will make it cooler and add noticable power gains at the same time?

Also with the oil cooler already there, your oil temperature will be a lot more stable then with the original cooler, so the need for running a cooler thermostat is pretty much already covered by the additional cooling of the cooler.

It seems to me like a lot of people also forget that once a car gets to a certain temperature, both a cooler and stock thermostat will be wide open and providing the exact same amount of cooling. One just takes longer to get to that temperature then the other. Especially with a cooler.

so if you do lots of short runs like Auto-x, that cooler thermostat might be something to look into. but on a track day, there really is no point.... In my opinion.

If anyone sees any misinformation in my post please correct me. My cooling system knowledge isn't as good as when it comes to other parameters of a car.

Can you explain the differences between the thermostats and what are the advantages and disadvantages? Also, not what exactly are the differences between stage 1&2?

[bryce]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Can you explain the differences between the thermostats and what are the advantages and disadvantages? Also, not what exactly are the differences between stage 1&2?

this is getting a little over my expertise, i haven't really researched oil coolers enough yet for this platform.

if it's similar to previous cars i've owned, a cooler thermostat can slow down how quickly your car warms up on the first start of the day. as The1 posted, this is kind of a "gray" area among car enthusiasts.

i'd say unless you're tracking your car regularly and have experienced oil temperatures higher than 260 degrees (that may have caused reduced performances or limp modes), there's probably not a need for an oil cooler upgrade. my HPF intercooler lowered my oil temperatures by 10-20 degrees on it's own.

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by bryce

this is getting a little over my expertise, i haven't really researched oil coolers enough yet for this platform.

if it's similar to previous cars i've owned, a cooler thermostat can slow down how quickly your car warms up on the first start of the day. as The1 posted, this is kind of a "gray" area among car enthusiasts.

i'd say unless you're tracking your car regularly and have experienced oil temperatures higher than 260 degrees (that may have caused reduced performances or limp modes), there's probably not a need for an oil cooler upgrade. my HPF intercooler lowered my oil temperatures by 10-20 degrees on it's own.

Thanks for explaining that. I can't say I track my car regularly but I wouldn't rule it out in the future. Our summer weather gets quite hot here, we can see 108+ degrees Fahrenheit days here and it really slows down our cars. My plan was to get the HPF FMIC with the stage 1 kit first but that won't be happening anytime too soon due to the delays. I think I will try and take it easy on the car through the summer and hold out for the FMIC first because i'm only looking to lower the car by 10-20 degrees so there might not be a need for an oil cooler just yet.

[bryce]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Thanks for explaining that. I can't say I track my car regularly but I wouldn't rule it out in the future. Our summer weather gets quite hot here, we can see 108+ degrees Fahrenheit days here and it really slows down our cars. My plan was to get the HPF FMIC with the stage 1 kit first but that won't be happening anytime too soon due to the delays. I think I will try and take it easy on the car through the summer and hold out for the FMIC first because i'm only looking to lower the car by 10-20 degrees so there might not be a need for an oil cooler just yet.

i live in houston, texas, which can get that hot in the summer plus near 100% humidity. intercooler upgrade goes along way. hopefully the guys at HPF will have something soon. i'm patient but would love their charge pipe/synapse combo

[The1]

Thermostats are just little valves that are held in place by a spring, a needle, and some other little magic pieces.

All it does is just control when the coolant should start to flow through the engine, and at what temperature it will fully be flowing.

Eg, if you have a 160 and a 180 degree thermostat, he 160 will just start opening up about the 160 mark, whereas the 180 will maybe will just start to open around the 180 mark.

anything over 160ish mark, the coolant will be running fully through the engine as the thermostat will be wide open.

the 180 thermostat won't start doing this action untill it hits 180+ degrees.

The manufacturer chooses the thermostat temperature to be "safe" as well as emission friendly.

it's like how our engines are tuned to be able to handle fluctuations in fuel quality. It isn't necessarily the best and most efficient tune, but it's the safest for the engine.

so yes, you have the potential to get better 1/4 mile times with a colder thermostat, but your car will take longer to warm up, your emissions will be worse, and if you choose a thermostat that is too cold, you will start to build excessive carbon in the engine, which with our DI engines, we already have to worry about that enough as it is on our intakes. This will also fowl spark plugs, and sensors, so it's only a matter of time for a check engine light if you chose the wrong thermostat.

if you should decide you want to change your thermostat, you will see best results if you add a higher quality coolant, or one more suited to the temps you plan to run.

for those of you sitting with a JB3 at home and wondering what map 7 feels like, but can't get 93 or higher octane where you are, a different thermostat might help with knock and detonation, but i would caution against it as i don't think anyone has tested this yet.

Unfortunately, i don't know how the BMW cooling system is setup, but i believe it's an electronic water pump? so it's controlled by the ECU, so any tampering with a thermostat might not really do anything, as it may use something completely different inside to help control flow. I'd have to do more research on that.

I'm sure there's stuff i missed, it's getting late, but i hope that helps answer some questions. If anything doesn't seem clear, just point it out and i will try to clear it up.

One more thing to point out as i don't think it sounded very clear while i was writing all that... the thermostat number is the indicated "cracking" point where it just starts to open, an engine will tend to run about 10-20 degrees higher then what is the indicated cracking point.


***I edited a couple things since the original post, kinda correcting myself as i go...


and i'm going to bed before i confuse more people

[mineo77]

Originally Posted by bryce

i live in houston, texas, which can get that hot in the summer plus near 100% humidity. intercooler upgrade goes along way. hopefully the guys at HPF will have something soon. i'm patient but would love their charge pipe/synapse combo

off topic, but hey i am from Houston,TX too! Just dont live there anymore.

[bryce]

Originally Posted by mineo77

off topic, but hey i am from Houston,TX too! Just dont live there anymore.

it's not a bad place to live, all things considered

[bryce]

Originally Posted by The1

Thermostats are just little valves that are held in place by a spring, a needle, and some other little magic pieces.

All it does is just control when the coolant should start to flow through the engine, and at what temperature it will fully be flowing.

Eg, if you have a 160 and a 180 degree thermostat, he 160 will just start opening up about the 160 mark, whereas the 180 will maybe will just start to open around the 180 mark.

anything over 160ish mark, the coolant will be running fully through the engine as the thermostat will be wide open.

the 180 thermostat won't start doing this action untill it hits 180+ degrees.

The manufacturer chooses the thermostat temperature to be "safe" as well as emission friendly.

it's like how our engines are tuned to be able to handle fluctuations in fuel quality. It isn't necessarily the best and most efficient tune, but it's the safest for the engine.

so yes, you have the potential to get better 1/4 mile times with a colder thermostat, but your car will take longer to warm up, your emissions will be worse, and if you choose a thermostat that is too cold, you will start to build excessive carbon in the engine, which with our DI engines, we already have to worry about that enough as it is on our intakes. This will also fowl spark plugs, and sensors, so it's only a matter of time for a check engine light if you chose the wrong thermostat.

if you should decide you want to change your thermostat, you will see best results if you add a higher quality coolant, or one more suited to the temps you plan to run.

for those of you sitting with a JB3 at home and wondering what map 7 feels like, but can't get 93 or higher octane where you are, a different thermostat might help with knock and detonation, but i would caution against it as i don't think anyone has tested this yet.

Unfortunately, i don't know how the BMW cooling system is setup, but i believe it's an electronic water pump? so it's controlled by the ECU, so any tampering with a thermostat might not really do anything, as it may use something completely different inside to help control flow. I'd have to do more research on that.

I'm sure there's stuff i missed, it's getting late, but i hope that helps answer some questions. If anything doesn't seem clear, just point it out and i will try to clear it up.

One more thing to point out as i don't think it sounded very clear while i was writing all that... the thermostat number is the indicated "cracking" point where it just starts to open, an engine will tend to run about 10-20 degrees higher then what is the indicated cracking point.


***I edited a couple things since the original post, kinda correcting myself as i go...


and i'm going to bed before i confuse more people

QFT

great info, thanks!

[The1]

Originally Posted by bryce

it's not a bad place to live, all things considered

examples of things considered?

The few hours i spend driving through northern Texas in the spring really didn't tell me much about texas, though i did stop and tow a stranded van full of children out of the desert before night fall came.

I also really liked the Cadillac Ranch just outside of Amarillo Tx.

other then that and a night at a hotel, there wasn't much interaction with Tx on a whole.

I like learning more about different places so i know reasons to visit or not visit on another road trip

[bryce]

Originally Posted by The1

examples of things considered?

The few hours i spend driving through northern Texas in the spring really didn't tell me much about texas, though i did stop and tow a stranded van full of children out of the desert before night fall came.

I also really liked the Cadillac Ranch just outside of Amarillo Tx.

other then that and a night at a hotel, there wasn't much interaction with Tx on a whole.

I like learning more about different places so i know reasons to visit or not visit on another road trip

well, it's the 4th largest city in the country, behind NY, LA, and chi. i love a large urban city feel, so it works out well for me. there's tons of cool places to go and it's near the coast of the gulf of mexico. the economy is still strong (for now) and texas hospitality is something else







sorry for the OT

[The1]

just thought i'd share this image

and I'll stop going off topic, thanks

[mineo77]

Originally Posted by bryce

well, it's the 4th largest city in the country, behind NY, LA, and chi. i love a large urban city feel, so it works out well for me. there's tons of cool places to go and it's near the coast of the gulf of mexico. the economy is still strong (for now) and texas hospitality is something else







sorry for the OT

[bryce]

[bryce]

TTT for general intake/exhaust/tune/etc questions