Best Intake on the market

BMW-driver · 08-27-2009, 04:35 PM

aftermarket AIR filters (like Afe, BMS, Stett, etc.) are useless. People want to beleive in them.

SJ · 08-30-2009, 10:42 PM

Mechanically naive question: why does an "enhanced" air intake help with the turbo engine? Isn't the turbo already forcing in and compressing near maximum air already? Or, is this for the radiator, to enhance water cooler, etc? I think I understand why it can provide some boost for the 128, but I don't understand why it helps the 135 ??

Victory Road · 08-31-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJ

Mechanically naive question: why does an "enhanced" air intake help with the turbo engine? Isn't the turbo already forcing in and compressing near maximum air already? Or, is this for the radiator, to enhance water cooler, etc? I think I understand why it can provide some boost for the 128, but I don't understand why it helps the 135 ??

The turbo can only force in as much air as it can pull in

BSM 135i · 08-31-2009, 04:59 PM

i've been running an aFe DCI paired with their scoops since last year and i have NO complaints about it AT ALL and i'm really happy with it

Cali135 · 09-01-2009, 04:57 PM

From the location of where the filters sit it would seem an open element would suffer from heat and hot air from the fans would cause power loss. Looks like a sealed system with heat reflection drawing air from under the cars bumper would be the best way to go. I just do not see how having 2 big cone filters sitting there open to the heat right above the engine behind the fans is going to help with the hood down and moving. With the hood up and a big fan blowing on it sitting on a dyno it would show gains I am sure. I have been modding mustangs for 15 years and most Cold air intakes that put the filter in the fender or have a seal box around the filter getting fed air from under the car worked the best. It should be no different here. the physics are the same. My car was also supercharged so getting good air was very important. When I went from an in fender system to an open element under the hood I saw Inlet air temps sky rocket and killed performance whiel driving but on the dyno I made 20 more HP over the in fender because it was not getting air sitting on a dyno but was while on the road. Also my filter on my 03 CObra was not affected by the fans at all so it was all just heat from the engine killing performance. I went back to a sealed box design and it ran better.
Something to think about.

Alext · 09-01-2009, 05:40 PM

Hopefully this will put this thread to rest: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2014

vitig · 09-02-2009, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alext

Hopefully this will put this thread to rest: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2014

conclusion? bms dci is the best?

Gogud · 09-02-2009, 03:01 PM

I read the post referred to in the link. When someone inquired about doing the test on a hot engine, Terry @ BMS wrote,

"The engine was up to temperature. I drove around for 20-30 min before cruising off boost for 5-10 min to stabilize IAT. If it was not up to temperature, IAT would be at ambient, rather than 10 degrees above."

I have not taken readings, but stopping the car and immediately opening the hood unleashes a blast of hot air, much hotter than from a NA BMW. Try it yourself; it is WAY more than 10 degrees over ambient. Do you believe all the hot air is is being immediately evacuated from the moving car? In addition, tests on cars operated in hot weather under stop and go traffic conditions show that heat soak is a problem in cars drawing underhood air. Simply accelerating up to normal cruising speed does not eliminate heat soak conditions quickly. I read a test on a Mazda where it took more than 1/2 hr to return to pre-heatsoak temps. Admittedly, this is a much different car with a TMIC and doesn't compare directly with a 135 but the basic principle is the same. I wish I had a link to the article at hand. You can find plenty of information on the benefits of cold air intakes if you want to, but if you simply want to support your beliefs, you can just attack me and deny anything logical.

Are we to believe that BMW and nearly every other auto maker is wrong and wasting money on elaborate intake systems that draw air from outside rather than underhood, whether in turbo applications or not? It would be easy to offer a bolt on upgrade for the customer looking for a little more power and they would be silly to pass that up if it were that simple. Add to that the snake oil to treat the element and you have a huge loss of revenue!

Alext · 09-02-2009, 08:17 PM

FYI : IAT is measured after the intercooler in Terry' s test no?

SVT2BMW · 09-03-2009, 08:15 PM

well I am going to try out Terry's duals soon and see how they work. I always figured the hot under hood air would be a big negative but as Terry pointed out the reduced work the turbos do to get the air in helps plus most of the fastest 1's and 3's out there are running open air elements. Maybe someone will do some serious back to back testing at a track averaging several runs with each and documenting temps and times to finally settle this.

bbadillo · 09-04-2009, 02:20 PM

it all comes down to the track testing times. dynos dont work cause they our stock intakes dont get to utilize the scoops properly

RPM90 · 09-06-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank@wheelsto

The turbo can only force in as much air as it can pull in

True, but if you're hitting max boost with the stock filter, an intake isn't going to help make more power.

The only way an intake can help add power is if the system is so restricted that you can't hit the boost being requested by the software.

As far as "cold" air intake, you'd have to prove that on a dyno, or at least show that the air temp after the IC is any cooler than with the stock setup.

BMW-driver · 09-08-2009, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alext

FYI : IAT is measured after the intercooler in Terry' s test no?

It seems to be Alext. So, what an we conclude then here

? Maybe, that changing the stock Airbox by a CAI or a HAI (Hot airintake lol) for a turbocharged engine isn't making a difference. Because the turbo's wil rais the airtemp extremely. It is the IC that is very important. A CAI for a NA engine is more important, although powergains - especially without someware-modifications - are seriously overrated (more marketing and salesdriven). But, maybe somebody more technical can say some about this.

Luvmybmw · 09-10-2009, 09:40 AM

BMS DCI...Love it!

RaceTime · 09-14-2009, 08:21 AM

My 1 is pretty much a race ride only...mostly suspension mods to my car. I run in BSP (SCCA) due to the Dinan tune. I installed a Injen intake in the middle of the summer season. I will say that the turbo seems to come on quicker and the throttle response has definitely improved. I think any truelly dual system is an upgrade. I say that because if you look at how the stock airbox is configured it is not engineered well. Each turbo is trying to intake air almost in 180 degrees from one another. This means that each turbo is competing for the same air flow. With separate intake each turbo can intake as much air as they can.

This is just my two cents tho...

romak47 · 09-15-2009, 09:45 PM

LOL. Im sure all that cold water hitting the cylinders really messed it up. hence the engine swap..
Ive seen this hydro lock happen to cars before and thanks for the reminder.. I was recently thinking the Stett CAI is badass but now that i think of it , yeah its too low and posses a problem if driving in a puddle. Not a good idea to have it that low.
Was a couple years ago driving on the 60 in Phoenix AZ that i saw a flash flood puddle up on a low part of the free way . Several lowered cars where messed up not knowing the puddle was a bit over 1 foot deep. All the cars stuck on the side of the road where decked out hondas.. lol.

Mike01ci · 09-16-2009, 10:14 AM

What about the BMW Performance Cold air package? Same conclusion?

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462
--if that link doesn't work, go to Tischer's website

My135 · 09-16-2009, 11:01 AM

After I installed Injen intake, my 135 feels stronger in the top end and throttle response is much improve over all rpm range. The improvement is real and it is a butt dyno proven mod.

bbadillo · 09-26-2009, 11:22 PM

Forget Dyno proven mods, Dynos really do not prove anything, its all about track times. Maybe if we put a jet engine fanning air into the scoops, the stock dyno will push more HP than the DCI dyno :-p

08-27-2009, 04:35 PM	#45
BMW-driver Drive carefully :) 6 Rep 322 Posts Drives: 1M Valencia Orange Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Leeuwarden iTrader: (0)	aftermarket AIR filters (like Afe, BMS, Stett, etc.) are useless. People want to beleive in them.
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08-30-2009, 10:42 PM	#46
SJ Private 20 Rep 83 Posts Drives: none yet Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NC iTrader: (0)	Mechanically naive question: why does an "enhanced" air intake help with the turbo engine? Isn't the turbo already forcing in and compressing near maximum air already? Or, is this for the radiator, to enhance water cooler, etc? I think I understand why it can provide some boost for the 128, but I don't understand why it helps the 135 ??
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-31-2009, 04:59 PM	#48
BSM 135i Colonel 206 Rep 2,229 Posts Drives: 08' BSM E82 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Cali iTrader: (23)	i've been running an aFe DCI paired with their scoops since last year and i have NO complaints about it AT ALL and i'm really happy with it
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09-01-2009, 04:57 PM	#49
Cali135 New Member 1 Rep 18 Posts Drives: 09 135i Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: LA iTrader: (0)	From the location of where the filters sit it would seem an open element would suffer from heat and hot air from the fans would cause power loss. Looks like a sealed system with heat reflection drawing air from under the cars bumper would be the best way to go. I just do not see how having 2 big cone filters sitting there open to the heat right above the engine behind the fans is going to help with the hood down and moving. With the hood up and a big fan blowing on it sitting on a dyno it would show gains I am sure. I have been modding mustangs for 15 years and most Cold air intakes that put the filter in the fender or have a seal box around the filter getting fed air from under the car worked the best. It should be no different here. the physics are the same. My car was also supercharged so getting good air was very important. When I went from an in fender system to an open element under the hood I saw Inlet air temps sky rocket and killed performance whiel driving but on the dyno I made 20 more HP over the in fender because it was not getting air sitting on a dyno but was while on the road. Also my filter on my 03 CObra was not affected by the fans at all so it was all just heat from the engine killing performance. I went back to a sealed box design and it ran better. Something to think about.
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09-01-2009, 05:40 PM	#50
Alext Banned 138 Rep 2,042 Posts Drives: B M W Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Everest iTrader: (2)	Hopefully this will put this thread to rest: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2014
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09-02-2009, 03:01 PM	#52
Gogud Private 15 Rep 86 Posts Drives: Join Date: Oct 2008 iTrader: (0)	I read the post referred to in the link. When someone inquired about doing the test on a hot engine, Terry @ BMS wrote, "The engine was up to temperature. I drove around for 20-30 min before cruising off boost for 5-10 min to stabilize IAT. If it was not up to temperature, IAT would be at ambient, rather than 10 degrees above." I have not taken readings, but stopping the car and immediately opening the hood unleashes a blast of hot air, much hotter than from a NA BMW. Try it yourself; it is WAY more than 10 degrees over ambient. Do you believe all the hot air is is being immediately evacuated from the moving car? In addition, tests on cars operated in hot weather under stop and go traffic conditions show that heat soak is a problem in cars drawing underhood air. Simply accelerating up to normal cruising speed does not eliminate heat soak conditions quickly. I read a test on a Mazda where it took more than 1/2 hr to return to pre-heatsoak temps. Admittedly, this is a much different car with a TMIC and doesn't compare directly with a 135 but the basic principle is the same. I wish I had a link to the article at hand. You can find plenty of information on the benefits of cold air intakes if you want to, but if you simply want to support your beliefs, you can just attack me and deny anything logical. Are we to believe that BMW and nearly every other auto maker is wrong and wasting money on elaborate intake systems that draw air from outside rather than underhood, whether in turbo applications or not? It would be easy to offer a bolt on upgrade for the customer looking for a little more power and they would be silly to pass that up if it were that simple. Add to that the snake oil to treat the element and you have a huge loss of revenue!
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09-02-2009, 08:17 PM	#53
Alext Banned 138 Rep 2,042 Posts Drives: B M W Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Everest iTrader: (2)	FYI : IAT is measured after the intercooler in Terry' s test no?
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09-03-2009, 08:15 PM	#54
SVT2BMW Private 2 Rep 53 Posts Drives: 2009 Black 135i Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Socal iTrader: (0)	well I am going to try out Terry's duals soon and see how they work. I always figured the hot under hood air would be a big negative but as Terry pointed out the reduced work the turbos do to get the air in helps plus most of the fastest 1's and 3's out there are running open air elements. Maybe someone will do some serious back to back testing at a track averaging several runs with each and documenting temps and times to finally settle this.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-04-2009, 02:20 PM	#55
bbadillo Private First Class 14 Rep 139 Posts Drives: 09 Black 135i, JB+ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: San Francisco,Ca iTrader: (1)	it all comes down to the track testing times. dynos dont work cause they our stock intakes dont get to utilize the scoops properly
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09-10-2009, 09:40 AM	#58
Luvmybmw One Fast 1 53 Rep 747 Posts Drives: '08 AW e82 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana iTrader: (2)	BMS DCI...Love it! __________________ Last edited by Luvmybmw; 09-10-2009 at 01:45 PM.. Reason: picture did not work
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09-14-2009, 08:21 AM	#59
RaceTime Auto X'er 3 Rep 157 Posts Drives: 2009 Space Gray 135i Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Northern Colorado iTrader: (0)	My 1 is pretty much a race ride only...mostly suspension mods to my car. I run in BSP (SCCA) due to the Dinan tune. I installed a Injen intake in the middle of the summer season. I will say that the turbo seems to come on quicker and the throttle response has definitely improved. I think any truelly dual system is an upgrade. I say that because if you look at how the stock airbox is configured it is not engineered well. Each turbo is trying to intake air almost in 180 degrees from one another. This means that each turbo is competing for the same air flow. With separate intake each turbo can intake as much air as they can. This is just my two cents tho... __________________ 2009 135i SGM, Premium, Sports, Nav. Dinan Stage 2 software, Injen intake, RR Oil Catch Can, H&R Pro-coilovers and springs, H&R front sway bar, Vorshlag camber plates, Vorshlag comp studs, BMW strut brace, BMW performance pedals, G-Force harneses, BMP tow hooks, Breyton GTS-R wheels with 255-35R18 (square set up) and custom axel back exhaust with muffler delete.
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09-15-2009, 09:45 PM	#60
romak47 Captain 53 Rep 941 Posts Drives: like a bat out of hell Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	LOL. Im sure all that cold water hitting the cylinders really messed it up. hence the engine swap.. Ive seen this hydro lock happen to cars before and thanks for the reminder.. I was recently thinking the Stett CAI is badass but now that i think of it , yeah its too low and posses a problem if driving in a puddle. Not a good idea to have it that low. Was a couple years ago driving on the 60 in Phoenix AZ that i saw a flash flood puddle up on a low part of the free way . Several lowered cars where messed up not knowing the puddle was a bit over 1 foot deep. All the cars stuck on the side of the road where decked out hondas.. lol.
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09-16-2009, 10:14 AM	#61
Mike01ci First Lieutenant 78 Rep 345 Posts Drives: 16 M2 & 03 M5 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Detroit, MI iTrader: (5)	What about the BMW Performance Cold air package? Same conclusion? http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462 --if that link doesn't work, go to Tischer's website __________________ 16 M2 & 03 M5 - current 95 540i- sold, 09 135i - sold, 08 335i - sold, 07 335i - sold, 10 550i - sold, 99 m3 - sold, 06 m3 - sold (regret). 01 325ci - sold/gone/my 1st car, (later found abandoned in a field w/ fire damage).
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09-16-2009, 11:01 AM	#62
My135 Lieutenant Colonel 85 Rep 1,609 Posts Drives: Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (0)	After I installed Injen intake, my 135 feels stronger in the top end and throttle response is much improve over all rpm range. The improvement is real and it is a butt dyno proven mod. __________________ 7/08 135 Coupe, Crimson Red, 6 SP, Sport, Taupe Lette/Aluminum. Performance Mods: JB4 on Map 5, BMS DP Fix V3, Injen polished intake, AR Catless DP, Maddad resonated mid-pipes, aFe exhaust polished tips, ST Suspension Coil Over and Hotchkis front sway bar. Others: BMS OCC, BT Scanner, Mud Flap. Next Mods: AA Front Strut Brace.
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09-26-2009, 11:22 PM	#63
bbadillo Private First Class 14 Rep 139 Posts Drives: 09 Black 135i, JB+ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: San Francisco,Ca iTrader: (1)	Forget Dyno proven mods, Dynos really do not prove anything, its all about track times. Maybe if we put a jet engine fanning air into the scoops, the stock dyno will push more HP than the DCI dyno :-p
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